Donny and I were talking yesterday about starting a thread..A thread that we all would give hints how we use arranger keyboards.
Not a comparison post, but a generic suggestion, and "tell how", thread.

It is okay to use a brand or model for specific suggestions..

Let's all think about it and come up with ideas and suggestions.

Realize we are all from different backgrounds and skill levels, this could be very helpful to all of us..

Just to start off with a hint..
The Yamaha arrangers going back to the PSR2100, has the capabilities to play the style[drums] , of the user's choice ,in place of the drum track of a SMF, in real time..This is a great feature, to liven up a sequence and also to eliminate a wrong drum instruments that the sequence track, plays wrong[keyboard]...The style drums will correct this..
It also makes things interesting..As an example , you may have a 16 beat drum pattern recorded in the sequence..try selecting a cha cha style[drums only], now start the arranger play while the sequence is running...You now have a completely different feel to the midi file...And this also allows you to add fills and variations [drums] to the sequence.

I hope we all find this thread interesting and give it your support with comments..

Arrangers work in so many ways for many diffeent players thats the beauty of these instruments....Another kool thing that I do on stage is "while Im playing" a song in style mode I'll bring up the Registration page & look for another song for my next selection, then when Im ready at the end of the song Im playing I simply just hit the coresponding button next to the new song title on the display screen and "BANG" it immediatly goes into the next song with all my Reg setups "without any lag time" in between songs keeping the people on the dance floor....this is the POWER of Registration use versus the Lacking features of the MFD which I hope will be fixed someday in the future thru updates.....I have many more uses but Im off to another double gig now......hope to read more on this interesting thread when I return home this evening on How YOU DO IT with an arranger KB!!

OKAY...I'll jump in.

I had been playing the new generation of Yamaha arrangers for several years before I discovered how to transpose SMF's, AND the KEYBOARD'S keys to the key signature I wanted to sing in. For instance, maybe the SMF needed to lowered 2 half steps, but the keys had to be raised to +3 in order to be coordinated.

The Transpose + and - buttons regulate transpose as a MASTER function. But, in order to transpose your MIDI FILE and THE KEYBOARD'S KEYS individually, first hit "DIRECT ACCESS", then the "TRANSPOSE +" button.

From there you can select MASTER, SONG (the SMF file) and KBD. Once all the keys are coordinated, it is just a matter of saving it all to a registration.

I can't speak for brands other than the Yamaha, but I'll bet most, if not all, of the newer arrangers offer this feature.

Eddie

Eddie, yes other keyboards do this also..Roland, you change the SMF key in song tools, and the keyboard transpose in real-time or save to a performance[similar to Yamaha's registration], along with the SMF link..

For weaker or thin-sounding tones/instruments, I layer a 2nd tone that compliments the lead tone, and save this as a registration.

There are so many tone-shaping parameters available, delays, attack, chorus, flanging, echoes, reverbs, spatial, etc, etc.

For example, on a 12-string guitar, I might set the 2nd tone to be the jazz guitar with the attack or harmonic content set low, reverb up a bit, and slight chorus added. It helps fill or sustain the 12 string sound in parts of a song where the notes are held out for longer periods (half, whole notes).

On a preset organ tone that I liked but wanted to have more 'punch', I adde a 2nd organ but it sounded muddy, so I added an electric piano, cut back on the chorus, brightness and harmonic content parameters and that gave me the punch without the piano hammer-striking sound.

So many parameters and variations are there to pretty much mimic any tone you want.

I usually hear layering used to add other instruments to the delivered sound, to increase the size of the band, like strings with piano, the sax section with the brass section, but for lead/solo sounds, layering 2 or more tones that harmonically compliment each other works great.

Hi
When I setup songs on the Wersi Abacus (All OAS instruments operate the same) I normally use the Quick load feature on the main screen, and then just load in what instruments I need to the appropriate layer, and also any styles I need, (You can assign up to 9 voices per layer (3 right hand, 2 left hand, 1 pedal) and also up to 9 styles. these can be styles, real drums, midi etc, or a mixture ) I then setup any settings I need (Footswitches, etc) and then store all the information in a preset with the name of the song, that way the amount of presets you need to use during a song is minimal. (Most can be done with just 1 or 2 presets) It also means I don’t have to remember were the sound that I want is.
BTW. On the Wersi when you select a sound/style group button on the panel, 9 voices/styles appear on the touch screen, as well as all the levels. (I.e. you do not have to scroll through the levels; you can just select them directly onscreen)

Bill

Hi,
I use it mainly as a playback device for my songs/music pieces. I play (and sing) over pre-made MIDI files.
I agree that this is not the typical use of an arranger. However, my keyboard has only 2 variations and I'd get bored to death if I had to use them. Fortunately, there is the OMB which helps me play styles that are found on expensive boards but still I can't get used to playing with styles.

Regards,
George

Great thread idea,this is what forums should be about spreading the knowledge.
Myself when playing styles I often mute a style part and replace with a suitable MULTI-PAD. The Factory PADS are very limited so although PADS can be made, I find it easier to take a Riff from a built in style and use as a PAD. You can build up a good selection of suitable PADS to compliment and replace style parts.
Style Riffs can be copied & pasted into Cakewalk to make MUTI-PADS.

One thing I do on my Genesys pro is assign the fill >, fill <, fill to self, vocal harmony on/off and the start-stop to foot pedals.

This helps in two ways: it makes me avoid pressing the fill buttons with my hands, thus freeing up my hands for other thing such as playing the keys and muting and on muting style tracks.

Also, I can sound more like a real band since I could have fills anywhere in the song because when I put in a fill is not dependant on whether or not I have a free hand.

Now were talking ARRANGERS BABYYY!!!
many people will learn many thing thru this thread for sure ....
keep the tips coming

If you have a Roland (especially the G70/E80).........

GET THE FC-7 FOOTPEDAL!!

Totally hands free selection of Variation, plus whatever else you feel like (within limits).

My choices are

1-4 Variation select (also triggers fill if Auto-Fill is on)
5-6 Lower and Upper Sustains (can span both easily with one foot if needed)
7 Leslie Fast/Slow

Now I rarely need to take my hands off the key-bed while I'm performing.........

But many other combinations are possible.

Possibly NIGEL would consider having a KEYBOARD KNOWLEDGE Section where we can all write in ideas as and when we find them.
Most of us use our boards in different ways and most of the time take these things for granted, but we all can learn much more from other players tips.

Hi,
I'm only a hobbyist, piano player at heart ( though not in ability).
I use keyboards ( even OMB realtime arranger software) in full keyboard(pianist) mode.
No split between right & left hands, means I can trigger chords anywhere on the keyboard, with either left or right hand, or a combination of both. Great way of playing piano with a style backing.

best wishes
Rikki

I am using a KN 7000 on my jobs, within a few weeks I will have a Tyros 2 if all goes well.

I name and save a complete set up for a song in a registration, sometimes I’ll use a second registration if needed.

In the set up I have ----
1-Transpose
2-Pads
3-Intrumentation
4-effects and tempo
5-Name of song, bank and registration

In the custom widow I have created I have –
1-The name of the bank being used
2-A group of 8 registrations
3- A group of 6 pads.
4-The name of the chord playing, tempo, Right 1 and 2, Left, Transpose and volumes for all.

While I’m playing I can press next bank and view the next eight songs or press Bank View and see all banks (Thirteen)-- or go to the second page and scan through all the banks and view all the registrations and names of the songs

My question;
How close to that set up can I come with the Tyros 2?

John C.


[This message has been edited by bruno123 (edited 05-21-2006).]

I pretty much use the PSR as an arranger only. I have used midi files on a limited basis as a back up to assist with me my voice lessons.

I have created a song sytle library that I store in folders A to C, D to F etc. I have hundreds of songs stlyles stored. This library supplements use of registrations. What I find convenient is that I can assemble gig disks on the fly using this master library which I keep stored on a 2 gig flash drive.

I'm not a good player, therefore, I try to utilize all the tools the PSR-3000 offers to provide seamless entertainment to my audiences. Essentially, I've set up several Music Finder Diretories for the various venues, drawing from a master list of songs and placing those for a particular venue in the Favorites area. This allows me to scroll through just 55 to 75 songs for the next song instead of scrolling through several hundred. The MFDs are made using Michael Bedesem's Music Finder View, which is an outstanding program with lots of options that makes this job a piece of cake.

Next, when I set up registrations they are set up with a single song title for each button, thus providing me with 8 songs per bank. The banks are labled approriately such as Slow Rock, Slow 50s, Rock1, Rock2, etc. You can view them on the fly, and when one song is ending, the next song can be started with a single button push.

In my case, midi files are stored in my laptop and Vanbasco's Midi/Karaoke Player is utilized for playback. This is another free program that has lots of great options, including large lyrics display in vivid colors. This is interfaced with the keyboard via the USB/Host connection on the PSR-3000.

The laptop is also used to store lyrics of thousands of songs. Each page also has the keyboard settings as well. They are stored by song title, which makes access instantaneous using Notepad. I use a white background, large black letters, and everything is in bold font with full screen width display. If you use a chordless, scrolling mouse, which is the easiest way to select the song, once the song is displayed, merely press the scrolling wheel down until you see a double arrow appear. Then release the wheel and by moving the mouse pointer slightly below the double arrow the screen will slowly scroll up the page. It's a neat tool.

The bottom line is between live playing using the MFD and registrations, midi files and MP3s, which are also stored on the laptop, you can quickly and easily move from song to song with zero dead time. This keeps the dancefloor packed, keeps the audiences happy, makes the time pass quickly, and keeps the paychecks growing.

Good thread Fran,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

Hi Foks ,this is a good thread and I value you opinions .
I expect anyday soon to get my long awaited Gem XP module for my midi accordion .
To all you folks that know me I'm not selling my beloved technics KN7000 .
It's staying at home ,it's just too much to take out on small gigs !!
My question to you folks is this :-
I have ordered a 6 pedal foot switch to use with the XP .

What functions would you suggest I set the 6 pedals to control .

regards ...........Giovanni

Hey Folks,
This is a super thread. Nigel should consider making it a 'sticky' or whatever you call it when the thread is made to remain as the first post.
Giovanni, I'm sorry to hear you still haven't received your XP. I would think that you would receive it long before it gets to the dealers stateside - which means, we won't get to see it for a while. I use the Korg EC5 - 5 pedals - A= fill 1; B= fill 2; C= advance arrangement variation; D= ending 1; E= start/stop (with intro 1 or 2 preset) or ending 2. If I had a 6th pedal, I would probably use it for a vocal harmonization variation. From what Dave M. reported, it's possible to chain 3 XP pedal modules for a total of 18 pedals and with 3 intros, 3 fills, 3 endings and vocal harm. choices on the XP, a dozen switches may be needed. I'd love it as I play standing most of the time with my module about waist high on my right.
Ciao,
Jerry

Great tips so far guys.

keep 'em coming......

One thing that hasn't been mentioned, but that I feel is very important is the pitch bend.
You gotta learn how to use that, so you can sound more authentic.
Guitars, Saxes and Trumpets etc. do this all the time.
But how to trigger it while playing in arranger mode if you are not Michel Vonecken?

Here is my longtime solution:
with the Yamaha's, and I'm sure with other brands the same, you can assign the pitch bend to a foot pedal.
That is soooo much easier and keeps your hands free playing and you will sound a hell lot more authentic.
Once in a while if your hands ARE free you can use the pitch bend directly to spice up things, because a guitar player bends the notes up AND down. The foot pedal is only down, which is sufficient in most cases.

My left foot pedal is for fill to self, to keep the beat from getting boring and the right foot pedal is for pitch bend when soloing.
A third pedal is for VH on and off which I have slightly to the side to not confuse my pedals.
Everything else can be easily done with your hands I think.

As Donny and others have said it many times: if you play a Saxophone, you gotta think like a Sax player.
How do you do it?
Listen, listen, listen, then try it out on your KB to see if you can get close to the sound.

Whenever I listen to music I try to pick one instrument and REALLY listen to all the different nuances and then I try it on my KB.

It makes a huge difference.
What is it really that we're trying to accomplish?
To create an Illusion of real musicians beeing up on stage.
Nothing wrong with that.
How good is your Illusion?

Listen, listen, listen; and the try it on your KB.

Watch a couple of Michel Vonecken videos.
That'll give you a start on where and how to begin.

Have fun.....

Eric

[This message has been edited by Eric, B (edited 05-21-2006).]

When doing wind instruments,one thing that a lot of keyboardists forget,is to allow the player to breathe.
Instead they hold notes for a ridiculous amount of time,too long for a real wind player to produce without turning blue.
The DX7, and a few other synths, would allow the use of a breath controller,something that would be cool to have on an arranger keyboard.


Ian

http://www.computersandmusic.com/sitemap/p/MIDI_Solutions_Breath_Controller_238.htm

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BC3A/

This is a good video from a Danish guy using the T2 (demo.

You can watch him use the pitch bend appropriately.
http://media.eskildsen.dk/eskildsen/Tyros/Tyros2demo.wmv

Enjoy

Eric

Eric thanx for the Video link, very kool!!

[QUOTE]
My question;
How close to that set up can I come with the Tyros 2?

John C.

John C.
If I read you right? you can do all these things and many many more, plus the storage is out of sight.......Pose

The ONLY feature difference (from your list) missing from Tyros2 compared to your KN7000 is that the KN7000 includes 6 Multipad Buttons to select from, while the Tyros2 only includes 4. On the other hand, Tyros2 includes MANY keyboard performance features I know you'll really appreciate, missing on the KN7000. These include:

1) Ability to save & call up lyrics via REG, and to automatically ppear when that specific REG (1-8) is selected.
2) "Fill To Self": triggerable via lilnked variation button or via remote footpedal. I like this design setup much better than Technics.
3) I don't remember if Technics limit the "number" of REGISTRATION BANKS (1-8) you've able to automatically call up in succession (via footpedal), but Tyros2's supports an unlimited number.

John, I'm confident you'll find it (as I did) a pretty smooth transition going from Technics to Yamaha OS/Navigation System. Other than Technics far more USER FRIENDLY step record Sequencer, your gonna really appreciate the benefits of Tyros2. One specific one I noticed right off is that Technics includes very weak (or non existant) drum fills, instead only relying on instrumental (melodic fills). For this reason, Yamaha more accurately replicates the sound of an authentic jazz combo (drums, bass, keyboard) where the drums are the essential element of the fill.

Congratulations in advance for choosing the Tyros2 keyboard. I think you're going to really enjoy it the way I have.

Scott

Scott can you outline this T2 procedure to accomplish this task?

I would like to do pitch bend with a knee switch. Does anyone do this? Back in the old days we had knee levers connected to a switch. I wonder where one of these could be purchased?

Gary I'm surprised you haven't made one already.

Tom

Tom...
Simple. Assign one foot pedal to "pitch bend". Then, velcro it to one of your knees. Any time you want to bend a note, squeeze your knees together. I'm surprised you didn't think of this.
Eddie

Tom,

The old Knee Switches have lone gone to the landfill--just can't find a need for them anymore. I'll bet if you did a Google search for them you'll get a couple hits on locations where they can be found.

Cheers,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

Eddie,

I use the old squeeze the knees together trick to hit the high notes. I would have to pick tunes that had high notes and pitch bend ocurring at the same time.

Tom

I have an old Suzanne Summers "ThighMaster" that I will give you. You could probaly rig it up to multitask.......... do your practicing and exercising at the same time.


Jerry

Jerry,

It was Eddie's idea I think he should do the beta testing first.

Tom

I don't believe Suzanne would care for the word "old" in front of her name.

And if the "ThighMaster" is really HERS...why isn't it called "ThighMistress"?

As far as beta testing my idea...it won't work for me because I play standing up. It would just look like I have to go to the mens room..really bad.

Eddie

Maybe they have a wedgy switch..for those that prefer to stand..

When I use my outboard harmonizer with my Roland G...while playing over sequences, and utilizing the harmonizer[vocoder mode]..I select multiple channels on my midi transmit from the G1000[assign several channels to a single channel] to the harmonizer...This allows me to use different vocoder voicing instead of being locked to a single channel..
I have come up with some very good results..The G allows me to save 8 different set ups that I can change at the touch of a button...even while the SMF is playing..

As an example one of my midi settings may use the track on channels 3, 5 and 16..another setting may be all the channels except 10[drums]..another may be just 4[for a pitch corrected melody voice..
Some of my setting I change the octave of the transmitted data, this allows a male/ female/ or mix of my harmonizer..again I am designing what I want to hear..

I also use a similar concept when I play in arranger mode..

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 05-23-2006).]

Another hint...[observation]..

When using a busy intro as with a big band style...at the end of the intro, continue your playing like a lion, not a lamb..

Many songs posted here, have such a let down after the intro....in yells out "canned" ..Use a nice full sound [brass, organ etc]..play big fat chords and ease into a lighter melody if that is where you want to be..
Same with the busy ending..let your playing build up going into the ending..It will be a more natural feel going into the ending..

Try this with your tunes and it will soon become second nature..


Come on people..what happened to the excitement of this topic?

I want to learn...too.

kinda hard to think how to correctly answere...
well, most of the time (at home)i use it to sequencing (Roland VA76), sometimes I even take styles, thanks to Rolan's Cool thing where you can mix 2 styles together, and record, than and stuff and delete stuff...
when I play live there are tons of stuff to tell, and i dont have time to type it all, cuz i'll be typing one thing than forget what i wanted to say next. okay, If its a song that was planned (not decided on the fly) than there whould be a style playing with some instruments in the style changed when needed, Upper 1 and 2 with assigned tones, sometimes manual bass, sometimes lower parts, sometimes i assign so funky set-up i dont know how to say it, i even had manual drum ready, cuz i had to do some fill-ins(Yamaha is great that they made Pads, but they are not pads, just buttons). most of the time i setup is set-up 10 minutes before a performance because people wanna sing a song and i have to find a syle just in time... also Roland G-1000's Drum variations is what i often find very helpfull. So usualy during performance i switch between upper 1 and 2, turn off a track(like drum track).
But most of the time i use my keyboard for sequencing, and also my uncle just bought a korg trinity, even though trinity is like 10 years old the sounds are better if you take all Roland's arrangers yamaha's psr's... and the sequencer is Much better, you dont have to wait for "Working..." to finish, after you recorded a track... thats a little off the subject...

1) I rarely ever utilize arranger style intros/endings, unless I'm 'actually playing' the lead intro/ending instrument part LIVE.

2) I always assign a footpedal to 'fill self' to take advantage of spontaneously triggered drum fills at various points in the song.

3) I play in split mode (fingered mode), with LEFT VOICE typically assigned to 'acoustic piano' and always turned on (heard) playing left hand chords, while my right hand (assigned to piano), in a vocal comping situation, provides additional 2-hand type chord enhancement (stacked 4ths, etc) or when playing instrumentals, use the rh to provide melody + fills. Another thing I often do is play melodic fills with the 'left hand', because on Tyros2, you're able to play one (or 2) note melodies in the left hand (LEFT part) without affecting the currently active chord recognition.

Scott

Like Scott, I most often play in Fingered Mode. However, there are some songs that really demand Fingered On Bass mode to sound authentic. "When A Man Loves A Woman" comes to mind. With out that bass walk down it just isn't the same.
Eddie