Get a cold drink, folks - this one will take a while to read.

I will "soften" my response to playing the PSR9000, so as not to sound fickle. I have been accused in the past of "falling in love" with every new board I play, so this time I will simply make a few general observations about playing out with the 9000.

FIRST) Man, it's reeeealy heavy. Mostly putting it in and out of the car is the worst. Once it's on a dolly - no biggie. In it's defense, I no longer need to bring the rack bag that houses my harmonizer. Somewhat of an even trade.

SECOND) The overall sound quality is excellent at moderate volumes, but with a PA going...it becomes VERY difficult to hear the keyboard from it's own speakers. This is strange, because I hear my vocal just fine. My guess is that the midrange frequency is toned down to make for a smoother sound, and that takes the sound "out of my face," (one of our pet expressions)

THIRD) Yamaha has thought of everything a player might want to do during a performance, and gives us a way to access it. BRAVO Yamaha! I'm serious - tone changes, volume, controllers, transpositions, you name it - it's easy to get to. By FAR - the easiest operating system of any keyboard on the market. At least in a live situation. I understand that setting up patches make life easy on everything else, but this one works right out of the box. I could literally play the whole night with one patch, and not miss much. As it stands now - I think I will only need to write about 10 or 12 to do everything I need to. The rest will be shortcuts for "million sellers" that I ALWAYS play.
(NYNY, Runaround Sue, Brown Eyed Girl, etc...) I don't think a week has gone by in 30 years that I don't get a request for Brown Eyed Girl. So, I guess it should have a registration all it's own, for fast access.

FOURTH) The simplicity of the patterns is a welcome change to the "cluttered up" sound that seems to keep popping up in many newer boards. I would like to start adding my own "spice" to the arrangements after a while, but for now-they are very useable, and easy to dance to. I still believe that the Korg patterns have a slight edge in the swing genre, but Yamaha has C&W down to a science. R&R has been good for years now - not an issue with any of the major offerings, and latins also seem to be great on lots of boards. As a whole - there is not a single style missing in the factory setup that I need at the moment.

FIFTH) Even with it's heavy weight - after the unit is on the stand - I like how solid, and strong it is. Tonight I played an inauguration for a county judge, and there were lots of speeches. They all used MY mic (YUK) and were speaking from the KB stand. It never seemed to wobble or worry me at all when they leaned on it, or bumped it by mistake. Nice solid, case - price of fame, I guess....is weight. Mass = Weight in this case.

SIXTH) Some sounds that bothered me at first are modifiable and better now after tweaking. Growl sax is one. Jazz Clarinet is another. Both had weird playing characteristics out of the box, but after a few adjustments - they sound wonderful.
SEVENTH) Organs - terrific. Leslie sim - also terrific. very believable jazz organ sound. I'm in heaven with Booker T, Jimmy Smith, Joey D, and all the others!

* * * * General impression * * * * *

The polyphony is still major sucky for a sustain freak, like me but the overall package is pretty complete. If the new PSR2000 is anywhere close to this unit - it will be in my car as a backup, and nursing home unit for sure. Glad I made the trade Don .... are you still happy?

Yes Frank,
As far as industry support and respect - you can't beat Yamaha as a company.

Dave, I'm happy. I do miss all the easy operating features of the 9000, but I like the drums and styles on the PA80. I particularly miss the country styles and guitars on the 9000.
I usually don't keep 'em very long anyway, but for now I'm still excited about learning and setting up the Korg.
DonM

Hi Dave
Would you care to post *exactly* the tweaks you made to the jazz clarinet or growl sax in order to improve it? I would love to try your method on my 740 (if that is possible), but I need specific instructions. I'm not knowledgable in this area, and would like to learn. If it's not too much trouble, post it here, and I could try it out. Thanks.
Tom

Since playing the 9k professionally since January almost every day I can tell you this. Out of the box the 9k is not a great keyboard but.... with a minimum 100 hours of really getting into it's features one by one and understanding what this keyboard can do it approaches greatness for sure as an arranger keyboard. You have to really see what Yamaha has tried to do overall with this offering and I'll tell you for the money it can't be beat compared to many other units. Without going into detail too much I will say that in my experience so far you need to import some styles to make up for the stock ones that you cannot use. Free up the Flash ROM section by deleting all non-essential styles. Start to listen to every styles variation graduation 1,2,3,4, and determine if they will work for you. If not get into the recording section and take the unwanted variation and change the by rerecording parts to make it work for you. This can easily be done on the 9k. The HD is a pleasure to use also. Load your sequences into the unit, after tweaking them to your liking in the keyboard incorporate them into a Panel setting, this way when your on stage you just bring up that panel # and the 9k automatically gives you all setups R1, R2, R3. L. voices to play along if you wish. Navigation is so easy on the 9k also. The placement of the Buttons makes playing live a pleasure for sure. That's the reason I just bought another 9k for backup and studio work. Vocalizer and EFX are outstanding. Incorporating the 4 recordable (looped) Multi Pads into the style mix is essential for making those empty styles come alive in real time. Using the OTS feature can give you many ideas on sounds and effect to put into your mix also. The weight is no big deal 10 pound more or less is not going to change anything for big boys like us :>) compared to yeas ago carrying a 147 Leslie Tone Cabinet and huge Amps all over the place :>) As Dave said the 9k has great onboard speakers, but on stage they sought of blend into the mix against the stage amps volume which I like for my style of playing. I don't like that "in your face sound" it isolates me from my audience. I like a more general sound all around the room, but that's my way of performing. There are so many more things we can discuss on the 9k. I'm happy I took the time to learn this great unit. Don't try to access a unit in the store or out of the box, give it a good long tryout thru a PA system to make your final evaluation, and don't be afraid to dig into the manual and really get into the Features big time! So far it's Thumbs Up! For the 9k for me!

Donny NJ

TomTom,
I don't mean to avoid your question, but I've been randomly making "on the fly" adjustments and I can't pin point exactly what I've done except for - keyboard velocity, effects sends, EQ levels etc. A good way to get the best effects settings is to start with an OTS setting - then write it into a registration.
The growl sax was not sustaining the way a real sax would. (I'm a wind player, and somewhat fussy) There was an unnatural decay in the original setting. It might have been the effects - maybe it was gated or something like that. If I find any "sure fire" methods or workarounds, I'll post them too, but for now - you have to make the adjustments that suit YOUR own ears. Donny loved the growl sax in his - I needed a different sound for me. It was more in the playability than the tone, itself.
Chocolate & Vanilla, for sure!

Dave,

I had no problem with the growl sax with the way I play it in alot of R&B songs. But some of the Brass sounds needed a little adjustment, delay/rev etc.I find that to achieve a realistic brass stab you need to incorporate a combination of 3 sounds R1,R2,R3,(Brasssection, Sweet Trumpet, Brass Combo). Be sure to evealuate your octave settings depending on what key your song is in also. Using the OTS setups as a foundation for sounds is highly recomended also versus a straight sound out of the sound library, especialy for (Cool E Guitar) on country tunes and Mandolin. Using the "Harmony" feature will give you many great efx. You can also isolate the "Harmony setting to only one instrument in the Reg also so that only that one uses the harmony.Another tip is to go into the MAIN (5 band) H-EQ section where you have 4 user settings and setup user #2 eg: ( 0, -1, +2, +3, 0, ) this will eliminate all the Muddled sound and give you a much clearer sound especially in the 400hz range for pianos etc. To explain this better play an arrangement with the default user EQ #1, while the keyboard is playing switch to your new custom user #2 EQ setup and listen to the difference! Next I have found that if you go into every registration and boost the ACCMP. high EQ to 105 it will definitly brighten the Accmp. mix especially the drums giving it a great "Live Sound". These are some of the things I talked about in my first post regarding "out of the box" reviews versus doing a little work in making your unit come alive and sounding great. I would guess that you can employ most of these technics to any keyboard to achieve a somewhat better sounding unit, try it you'll see !!

Good Luck

Donny NJ



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 06-30-2001).]

I'm trying it today, dude!

Hi Donny,
Great review of the 9k Pro. Couldn't agree more with your evaluation.
Like you, I also deleted all the styles I didn't need, and loaded some other excellent styles. I also tweeked the accomp.
For me the electric guitars are more important, since I used to be a guitar player. In the accomp section I usually turn the high & low EQ of, lets say the 60's guitar, to 120 and then the harmonic content between 76 and 86. That really brings it alive.
Dave, I also like your review sinceI also use the Growl Sax quite often I would also be interrested in how you made it sound more real. Thanks.
Greetings
Eric

I just thought of something that I might have done - I turn OFF the aftertouch, because I seem to trigger it too easily with my left hand alot. I am not used to aftertouch, and I have a hard touch of my own, so the two do not always comliment each other. I may learn to utilize the effect if it becomes more important to me later, but for now - I leave it off. That takes OUT the vibrato that a lot of sounds don't need. I really haven't done much editing at all - just a few little "nudges" here & there.

Dave,
I would love to see you eliminate the need for the digitech Voc and use the 9k's superb one. It might be worth it to incorporate this new technic for your style of play and in the long run would be a plus for you. I don't see companies changing their vocalizers allowing right hand triggering unless there is a Big call for it by users. But we can hope right?

Tom Tom,

There is not much I can do to tweak the clarinet or Growl sax on the 740. It doesn't have the same editing abilities as the 9000. In fact other than changing effects and using the mod wheel there is virtually no editing ability on it period. The good thing for me though is that I like most of the sounds enough that I don't need to do a lot of tweaking. The exception is of course if you have a program like XG works or maybe another program ( Cakewalk? ) with xg editing ability. Then you can do quite a bit to edit.. XG works also has a basic VL synth edit function which works rather nicely on saxes/ winds and string instruments. When I composed stuff and made midifiles, I'd often send the midfiles through xg edit to brush up a sound or two and add effects to my arrangement instruments. It works very nicely, but will only retain edits in realtime while you are connected directly to the software. Midifiles which have the edits placed into them will however retain those edits when played from disk with or without the software.

Don M.. Mildly surprised to hear that you miss the guitars on the 9k, but I guess that's why we always talk about apples and oranges ....The acoustics sounded very good to me on the 9k from what I remember of it though, but I haven't heard any arranger with electrics that I like overall better than the PA80. I don't care for the Yamaha electrics, particularly the harder edged ones.. but I think much of it is because I don't like Yamaha's guitar effects at all. I listened to that " Carlos " guitar demo from the 9k pro as well, but I don't care for it at all. I made my own " Carlos " performance preset on the PA80 using the New Strat voice and a custom voice which stared with the OD guitar sample.. Man I swear it sounds like the real thing. Even with all of that I still want to see Korg offer a sampling function so I can add even more guitar sounds.. but I can live nicely with what's on there already. If they did offer it as an expansion piece and they come out with a new OS as promised to allow full event level editing on the sequencer, I would have to rate this board at about the top of the arranger food chain for my needs. Still, I'll probably always use external sequencers for any serious editing so I am not overly concerned about the internal editing capabilities. Even as is I'm very satisfied with it and don't see it being replaced for quite a long time. Some of the sax sounds could be better for me tho.. although I can customize them and get them to sound very decent on the PA80. I didn't like some of the sounds at all on the MZ2000 but my favorite one was the Velo alto sax and the next was the feedback guitar. Neither my PA80 or the 740 has equivalents to those...but the PA80 can really get that Strat thing going on... man I love that sound...
I also like many of the styles on the PA80. I always harped on how I like to make my own styles, particularly for composing, when I used the internals of the 740, 9000, MZ, Jammer, and converted styles from Technics, Solton, and Roland, but I like the ones enough on the PA80 that often I can literally get lost just playing to or along with them. I also like that Chord Variation function and see that as a real nice tool as I begin to do some of my own styles.

I'm looking forward to demoing the Karma software as well when it comes out. If it works the way I think it will it will be another great tool on for me to compose with..

Yep Uncle Dave.. sometimes I turn the aftertouch off as well.. especially when doing electric guitar solos... I have too hard a touch with the right hand sometimes and the aftertouch effects are often unwanted. When soloing the pitch and mod joystick ( with the mod effect set up the way I like for a particular instrument ) are all I need..

All in all I like the board enough that my 740 is beginning to collect dust ( or rather its dust cover is .. ) and my M1 is retained strictly as a collectors item. The key action may not suit true pianists at all but works fine for a player like me who was born and bred on organs and later the Korg Poly6. The action is a tad bit stiffer than the 740, which is almost too loose for me when soloing. I can not use heavily weighted or real "piano" feel keys for emulating many other instruments and get them to sound the way I'd like.

AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 06-30-2001).]

A.J.,
I would love for you to tell me exactly how you get the Strat sound you like so much. I will try it!
I do like the light touch of the Pa80, much better than the semi-weighted or full piano touch. But then I was never a piano player.
I like the acoustic guitars and the Club guitars on the PA80, but haven't found a Country type electric that I'm really happy with.
DonM

DonM,

Actually on my PA80, performance page 4, which used to house the accordian and master fisa performances I now have 8 variations of strat combinations... One of my favorites though is a combi of the New strat voice at full level ( 127 ) and the R&R guitar voice ( set at 95 vol level ). I have effect C set on #53 RevSM hall and D set on 82 OD/HG-MTdly. The delay is set very light and so is the reverb. The OD is also fairly light. I love this sound when doing Clapton type solos. I only use the Vintage strat patch in one of the 8 performances. I prefer the new strat sound better for the most part. Another one of my favorites uses the "New Strat" with the Single Coil guitar..Of these 8 performances only the" Carlos " guitar performance I made uses any "made from scratch " patches directly made from the program edit menu. The rest all use the original program ( patch ) presets, some of which are modified a bit using the very basic synth edit functions found right in the performance edit menu rather than the program edit menu. Hope this helps..

I don't play a lot of country music but I did look for that coumtry style guitar Don and I don't care for anything I can find either at this point. Maybe some editing will help but maybe not. Things like that are why I'd love to be able to add samples.
This board is worth it to me and I'd spend good money to add some additional quality sounds.

AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 06-30-2001).]

Thanks A.J. I will try the combinations tomorrow. I should be able to work with one of the strats to make a country guitar sound too. I do like the Steel Guitar 2 sound.
DonM

Life is a circle that goes around round round. I can't keep up with you Dave. X1, PSR9000, VA-7, PA80, 9000PRO, and back to PSR9000. Two years ago you hated the PSR9000 and now it's great. Man, I got lost somewhere . . . no criticism is intended at all. I hope you like your keyboard no matter what you're playing. Besides, I'm sure you make them all sound great.

Steve

Hi Dave
Finnaly today my 9000 arrived.
My first impressions:
1-Uhhhhh As it is weight!!!!!!
2-As it is easy to operate.
3-As it is easy to equalise with external amp.
4-Operating flash styles, I don't go to fell lack of 740.
5-Styles made for 740 are working well.
6-Voices and internal styles are honest.
I'll go to collect my doubts and ask for aid.
MBR,
ChicoBrasil

It's official - I NEED to use the digitech harmonizer for ALL jobs that are more than background music, or a 1 hr senior show.
I hooked it up today with the PSR9k, and my life was so much easier. Ahhhhh, relief. Too bad this now means that the 9000 is again incomplete. I still plan to keep it "on line" until a new option arises - nothing out to date will replace it for me yet.
I was very pleased (NOT surprised) at how the digitech sounded thru the Yammy speakers. It was wonderful. This means I MUST bring at least a small rack bag now, but that is not so bad - I have lots of options in that area.
Quick report card:
PSR9k-
1)sounds - A+
2)styles - A-
3)EZ to use - A+
4)size - D
5)weight - F
6)controllers - A+
7)price - B-
8)reliability - A
9)mic effects - A-

Overall grade - a strong B+, maybe A-
In a home situation(NO travel), or for a non singer - it's a sure fire A.

Hello Uncle Dave, how would you rate the PSR9000 vs the PA80? It's always a pleasure reading your comments/reviews.

They are very different animals, and as you know -I already made the switch from the PA to the PSR. I'll use the same report card for ya:
1)sounds - slight edge to PSR
2)styles - slight edge to PA
3)EZ to use - PSR, by a mile
4)size - PA, by a mile
5)weight - PA, again - BIG time
6)controllers - PSR - MUCH better
7)price - no brainer - PA
8)reliability - even
9)mic effects - both SOUND good, edge to PSR
because of the flexibility
So, out of 9 categories.....it's
PSR - 9
PA - 10
The weight factor, and size gives the PA a slight edge over the PSR if you carry it around a lot. For me - the harmonizer was a larger priority because of the many ways to use it, Unfortunately, I will NOT be singing through it anymore, but I AM excited to use it as a guitar preamp. I am a "unique" user of these arranger keyboards, and my styles are NOT the norm, when it comes down to comparisons. I appreciate the fact that you value my opinions, but remember - they are the opinions of a player that breaks a LOT of rules of convention. My priorities still remain: Vocals, Bass & Drums. The arranger aspects are a great "icing" on the cake, but my needs are quite different from most other arranger players. I really don't consider myself an "arranger" player. I am a bass & chord man, that SOMEtimes uses the arranger to enhance the performance, and compliment my singing. I would never be happy listening to an arranger all night long, no matter which one it was. But that's just me. I have 30+ years in this business, and I'm very set in my ways. Too late to throw it all away now, just because the next wave of products is telling me to do it THEIR way. I want it MY way. Nuff said?

Hello Uncle Dave,

1)sounds - slight edge to PSR ? really have they change the synth engine in 9000 Pro from 9000 that much(which I have played) and the sounds were good but comparing them to Triton sounds is questionable? well that is just my opinion, I played i30 with 9000 and they sounded almost in the same league but PA-80 uses Triton sounds which in my humble opinion are way ahead than PSR or i30! but I can be wrong and it is purely my opinion and those who are interested in hearing the new Motif just go to http://www.motifator.com/ and click on the listening room and also check out the demos from www.korgpa80.com, well what can I say, and please I am only talking about sounds here not feature wise (we also have to consider a $1000 difference)


[This message has been edited by Arbaz (edited 07-04-2001).]

The PA80 is NOT a Triton. It is "based" on the Triton engine, and does not have the same impact to my ears. Also...The Triton never lit my fire anyway. The "slight edge" I refer to is the piano sound, mostly, and the electric pianos too. The PA80 is a wonderful machine. If it was the same size as the Yamaha, and the same price - no one would buy it.

First of all I know that PA-80 is based on the Triton engine and it does contain all the samples from triton and some new solo samples but I do also know that in PA-80 you can have 4 OSC per program even the Triton only offers 2 I think you are referring to effect settings which are better in Triton now other than sounds I mostly read specifications of a keyboard Yamaha have wonderful polyphony (128 notes) user interface is easy (as I have heard) and it offers sampling these features are a plus for 9000pro and it does cost $1200 more? what I do not understand is your last comment "If it was the same size as the Yamaha, and the same price - no one would buy it." what exactly does it mean? that people pay more for yamaha or yamaha is expensive so it is suppose to be the best out there??? please do clarify it for me, well I just want to get different opinions and no flames also Uncle Dave just for your interest PA-80 have released the new O.S. 2.0.1 the feature which is nice is,

-When the Manual Bass is selected if you press the Upper Chord Scanning you can play the Manual Bass with the left hand and the Automatic Chord with the Right hand.

there are few other features not listed here, I mentioned this one cause I remember reading your post about playing manual bass!


[This message has been edited by Arbaz (edited 07-04-2001).]

What I mean is that if the Yamaha and the Korg were the same price and weight - no one would pick the PA80 over the PSR9000. The advantages become obvious because of the overall value and portability, but the features on the Yammy put it ahead of the Korg in most other areas. Subjective? Of course. My needs have YET to be met, so - I'm still looking. Good luck in your search.

Thank you Uncle Dave I understand so if Pa-80 offered 128 polyphony, user sampling you would have gone for PA-80 ? Just kidding I do understand what you mean. Thanks again. :-)

I'm the other half of the equation--I traded the 9000 for the PA80. SO FAR, I much prefer the guitar sounds on the 9000, and of course the ease of operation. The weight was a big reason I changed. I love the harmonica on the PA. The saxes are good, the brass is good. No complaints other than I'm still tweaking guitars looking for something that approaches the LiveE guitar on the 9000.
The harmonizer on the 9000 is MUCH better.
I am enjoying the joystick on the PA80 a lot more than I thought I would. The sequence players are better on the PA--and it recognizes .kar files. The 9000 includes video output, which is an option on the PA. Sampler not available on the PA.
Like Dave says, it all depends on your needs!
DonM

Hello DonM, like some one have said that sound is a very subjective matter in fact it proves right here you don't like the PA-80 guitar and I think PA-80's nylon guitar is very good http://www.korgpa80.com/pa80/mp3/nylongtr.mp3 and off course I have heard the carlos guitar demo of Yamaha! :-) about the sampler I think PA-80 will soon have a limited sample play back feature! using the flash card !

I like the acoustic guitars, nylon guitar, Club guitar, Jazz guitar etc, a lot. It's just a certain string-popping country electric guitar that I loved on the PSR9000. I have found some very usable substitutes, but not exactly what I would like. Like UD says, we don't all look for the same thing. For example I love the harmonizer on the 9000 but it doesn't do Dave's particular thing.
I look forward to upgrades for the PA80. It will get better and better.
DonM

This discussion is comparing two keyboards that I like very much. It's not about which is good, or which is bad. Neither is bad - far from it. I only rated the differences that matter to me so you can make your own comparisons, based on informed opinions from users. I doubt that I will ever be totally happy with anything. I also doubt that it will affect my overall work attitude or acceptance level. My clients are getting used to asking me..."What did you bring tonite?" They don't care WHAT I play, as long as I PLAY it. Wonder who will be the first to make me reeeeeealy happy again. Maybe the PSR2000 and my digitech. Who knows.

UD Probably Casio!! ha,ha!


[This message has been edited by Nobby (edited 07-05-2001).]

I found a cool way to use an external mixer with the PSR9k today. I like to run a Mini Disk and my vocalist thru the speakers, so I have been sending the stereo OUTs of my TOA rackmount mixer INTO the stereo INputs on the back of the Yamaha. That works just fine, but then you need to send the line outs of the Yamaha to an external PA, and the controls may not be near you on stage.

Here's the cool thing:

The 9k has a LOOP in/out feature that disconnects the speakers from the soundsource. I took the loop OUT and sent it into the mixer INput channel. Another ch has the vocalist, another has the MD. Now.... I route the mixer OUTs right back into the Yamaha loop INputs. This gives me a volume & tone control on the mixer that works the kb signal by itself. I can use the sum out to feed a PA, while using the record outs to feed the Yamaha inputs. This gives me more control (right at my fingertips) and still lets me monitor everything from the speakers. This is why Yamaha is so good. They think of almost every situation. Too bad they never thought of a R.H.chordal mode for the harmonizer, but at least I have another option.

Tonight I used the mic input as a guitar amp - it was wonderful! So, except for the weight, and the extra rack bag - this set up is giving me everything I need to sound my best. Now I just need to address the weight issue. Things are looking good for my summer gigs - it'll be a breeze to set this up at all my venues (35-40 every month) 6 times a week, there will be a PA at the gig, so I'll just have to bring the KB and the rack bag. Guitar is optional - mostly for the shore gigs.

Hope this option comes in handy for some of you with 9000s ! It's a GREAT idea!

Dave,

Looks like you got it all figured out. The only thing that's left to do is begin developing more upper body strength. Then, lugging around the PSR9000 won't be a problem. I've found that laying on my back on the piano bench and doing 20-30 repetitions of the keyboard press helps a lot. I don't know that pressing my keyboard has may me any stronger but after lifting it 20-30 times I don't care whether I drop it or not. Hope this helps.

Steve

Great idea Uncle Dave.
Now I made a "Testdrive" with 9000s loop:
1-Peavey XM12 powered mixer.
2-AKG mic.
3-02 JBL Tr 105 speakers.
Result:excellent!!!

MBR,ChicoBrasil

Here's another cool thing I just realized!
When you use the "loop out" & "loop in" method with a mixer, you can turn the keyboard speaker volume ALL the way off while you set the house levels and tone controls. Then, you can turn up the "monitor" as loud as you need it to be, WITHOUT affecting the mix in the house. This is BRILLIANT, folks. This really opens up a new world of precise monitoring from the keyboard location, without sacrificing anything from the house mix. And the beauty of it is that you only need ONE mixer, as long as it has more than one set of outputs! My gig at the shore has me using a house PA, and it's working out so nice. All the controls are at my fingertips, and the monitor volume does NOT affect the house volume. Very nice, indeed.