I've been following the posts regarding everyone's frustrations with the build quality of Yamaha's newer keyboards, and there have been a lot of good points made too. Yeah we can all agree that Yamaha didn't intend for the PSR-2000 to be for profeessional use, but if this is the case maybe they should stop calling them "portable keyboards".... That title is misleading in so many ways. They claim these boards are designed for home use, yet they call them portable keyboards... Sounds like a contradiction to me....

Squeak

Squeakster,
I think the mistake Yamaha made with the 2000 is that it turned out better than they expected. It is SO CLOSE to being the ideal arranger keyboard for single or duo work. It sounds good, it is easy to use, it is not very expensive, it is light-weight, it has good mic and vocal harmony (despite bugs).
But then they cut some corners that just made the whole thing frustrating.
It would be so easy to take that keyboard, add some memory--say a memory card, or just a lot of User RAM--maybe beef it up just a little and add a few of the buttons they left off (separate buttons for each intro, ending for example).
I really don't object to the construction that much if beefing it up would add too much to the weight. It is not a piano, so the key touch is fine for me, but I understand others would like sturdier-feeling keys. And of course put the OS in RAM as originally designed so it could be upgraded easily.
Yamaha markets this keyboard, and all their arrangers, to such widely-diverse markets that the single best improvement they could make would be to do like Korg, Farfisa and maybe others and let us replace ANY or ALL of the preset styles with our own, or edited versions. That way you could truly tailor the keyboard to your own needs, whether it is Country, Rock, Techno, Big Band, Latin, Rap, or anything else.
Almost every area where they missed the boat could be easily compensated for if there were enough on-board memory to store custom setups. But having to use floppies for everything is just too time-consuming on the job, despite the really fast load-time.
What would all this add to the cost? Maybe 100 to 200 dollars at the most? Who cares?? I could sell 'em by the truckload.
In their defense, they made a keyboard for the pros--the 9000 Pro. Had I known the vocal harmonizer in the 2000 was lacking some presets that it was supposed to have, and that the OS couldn't be upgraded (obviously it hasn't been in more than 6 months!) I would have bought the Pro instead.
Now I can't buy one because I'm so disappointed in Yamaha's (non)handling of the 2000 situation that I may never buy another product from them.
DonM

The 9000pro is not degigned for the SOLO pro, really. It's more of a "band" pro because of the size, and lack of speakers.
I mentioned this to Mark yesterday, and stated that the "one nighter" of todays needs a smaller, powered version that is lighter than the 9k.

The 9kpro had EVERYthing you'd need to work as a soloist ...... but the size made it just too cumbersome to deal with, and the lack of speakers just put it out opf range for the smaller jobs. The PSR9k was not a suitable substitute, because of the awkward size and same horrible weight factor.

Face - it ... these two are just too darn heavy to be called portables. I'm an artist, not a piano mover.

lets not just jump on Yamaha...... EVERY ARRANGER KEYBOARD MANUFACTURER SHOULD BE INCLUDED IN THIS ARGUMENT !

DNJ, I agree! It seems to me that the only ones who will listen and respond are Ketron and GEM (to a lesser extent). Now let's see what they offer us.
Dave, isn't the Pro some 15 pounds lighter than the PSR9000? I was thinking 35 vs 50.
DonM

My wk8 is perfect in every way !!!

(I am so just kidding)

I don't think I'm gonna ever find the perfect board, but the PA80 works well enough for me that I can be happy with it. Some of the Yamaha arrangers I owned or played had excellent features, but I was never totally able to embrace any of them and make them "mine". Doesn't make them bad boards by any means, but that's just a personal preference. In fact I liked some of the styles and features enough that I customized my PA80 to mimic some of the 9000 / 2000 / 740 styles and voice assignments. The good news is that there IS so much that can be tailored to my preferences on it. The harder part was learning how and spending the time to do it. I'd like more and better fills in the Korg styles, but I also know that it isn't likely going to happen just because I want it, so I modified some the Korg styles myself as best I could to my liking. The good thing on the PA80 is that I can overwrite any part of or a whole factory style without having to waste user style space.

It isn't fair for me to evaluate the Technics arranger I owned since it's was an older model and it's been gone for many years now, but at the time I thought it was a good board. If the MZ2000 is a semi clone of the KN5000 ( at least in features ), I bet I'd have really liked it, but I won't buy a board sight unseen. One of the unfortunate things about living in this area is knowing that other boards are out there but not being able to see or play around with them.

I'd have to say Korg Italy has done a fair job of communicating with us on the PA80 forums and it seems that at least some of the things that were asked for by users were implemented in the OS updates. Obviously not everything that everyone asked for, but some things.

AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 04-23-2002).]

HI: DonM
My name is not Dave but I will answer your
Question about the weight of the 9000 PRO
it is 45 lbs.
Enjoying the 9000 PRO
Denny

may be Yamaha needs to come up with "2000Pro"

Hi Guys,
The spec's say the PSR-9000 is 50lbs.
Not including the song stand???????? Huh!
How heavy is that song stand anyway??

Denny, I like my 2000 too!
I would like it a lot better if I had the OS upgraded with the new chips.
And I didn't worry everyday, as to when mine was going to start falling apart!!
Still ok so far,
Nobby

------------------

Hi guys,
Just a note on the 9000PRO. I use it nightly and often, daily. I am a SOLO ACT (although I love to play in a group on the odd occation) I play for both small and large gatherings. I actually decided to choose the 9kPRO over other offerings after much "playing around" the various offering AND (let me repeat this, here comes the clincher)AND a "close the doors" praiseful recommendation of its supurb qualities from our own UD!!! Sure its not the lightest and sure I use stereo amps. But boy WHAT A GREAT INSTRUMENT for the SOLO ACT!!!! Bless you UD for your praiseful rec. Oh yes and one other thing - I have often been told that I exhibit a lot of energy while playing. (my PSR640 used to pop out its music stand regularly on a good night- veeeery )The 9KPRO has not missed a beat - its built to take the energy.

Uncle Dave said: "The 9kpro had EVERYthing you'd need to work as a soloist ...... but the size made it just too cumbersome to deal with, and the lack of speakers just put it out of range for the smaller jobs. The PSR9k was not a suitable substitute, because of the awkward size and same horrible weight factor..."

I'm a pro soloact and I anticipate my Yamaha 9000 Pro to arrive this week. However I can already tell you that I've been using a Kurzweil PC88 at small-to-medium gigs for some time, which weighs in at 55 lbs without internal speakers and the flight case I carry it in weighs another 30 lbs, and I've been using a Roland EM-2000 with it as an arranger and midi file player (I forget the weight on that but guess it's around 35 lbs). Plus I carried a vocal harmonizer/reverb unit and a mixer. It seems to me that the 9000 Pro has the potential to replace both of these keyboards, the harmonizer, mixer and the cords and power supplies I used to need to hook them all together, so I'll take that "horrible weight factor" of 45 lbs in a heartbeat. Also, I use a pair of JBL EON G2 10's which weigh all of 24 lbs each, and I bought the carry bags JBL makes for them. They are small, pack 175 watts of digital power each, sound wonderful and my wife can even carry them. I expect them to last quite a while. Yamaha knew full well it could never pack anything like a JBL EON into a keyboard and did the right thing not trying with the 9000 Pro. Maybe you don't come from the days when keyboardists had to carry full PA systems to gigs, even small ones, but I do and I marvel at how much lighter and better everything is today. I see the ideal small-medium gig setup as a Yamaha 9000 Pro and a pair of JBL EON 10's, even if it means I have to make slightly more than one trip to and from my car to do the gig.

God bless you - make the extra trips to the car .... in the rain...... with a far-a-way parking spot ...... in a bad neighborhood

I still stand by my original statements that the 9kpro is the most complete arranger/workhorse I've ever seen, but I just do too many jobs where size is a HUGE issue. The weight factor would not be so bad if I was always on stages, with room to wheel in a dolly etc. The fact is: I often have to walk through fancy marble halls(no dolly's allowed)... up steps, through narrow kitchen hallways ...... it all adds up to a huffing, and puffing piano mover - all before I even play the first note.

I'm sure we all have our own take on this issue, but here in my town - most of my work is small(size-wise, NOT money wise)- and a larger keyboard with a REQUIRED sound system is just not practical.

Here's a few examples:

1)Thursday & Friday nites - I play a bar in Trenton NJ that has a house system (that I installed)- I walk in, slap the kb on the (custom built) piano/like stand plug into the PA, and I'm ready to go in 5 minutes.
(KB speakers are my monitors, so I put the house volume WHEREVER it needs to be. I am not affected by it.)

2)Sun-Tues down at the Crab Trap (NJ shore)- There is a band that works Wed-Sat, and they let me use their PA, so I walk in, set up a KB stand and BOOM - same thing. ONE trip to the car. No baggage to store.... just a kb case to neatly pack in a closet or behind the rig.
There are countless nursing homes and cocktail parties that require no more sound then the on-board speakers too. In these high-ticket jobs, I can walk in, wearing a tux - open the case put the kb on the stand and be ready to play in less than 5 minutes -without breaking a sweat. I'm talking million dollar homes, private country clubs and corporate gatherings. This crowd just needs musical "wallpaper" not a concert.
I'd love to have kept the 9kpro, but I just wouldn't be able to use it much .... so what's the point?

I'm putting more energy into just playing piano/bass/drum things, and I'll use sequences for the higher energy dance stuff. The summer season is about to explode and I will not be worrying about gear in July. I just wanna sing. This issue is really bringing me down, so I'll can it for now, but thanx for all the participation in this topic. We sure do represent the WHOLE spectrum of users, don't we ?
Best of luck in all your searches - I hope SOMEone finds the perfect fit.

Esh,
I also appreciate the newer gear after years of carrying around much heavier equipment. When I sold my 9000 it was because I was doing as many as three nursing homes per day and the weight made a big difference.
Now I'm playing a sit-down club 3-4 days a week where I leave things set up. I would like to have both a larger setup and keep the small gear for the small jobs.
I know everybody is getting tired of hearing it, but I'm really trying to get away from Yamaha gear.
Maybe they will change my mind. If I could find a used Pro, I might try it until I find and decide on something better. That way it would be no additional revenue for Yamaha!
DonM