*id like to preface my message by saying that im relatively a novice about keyboards/arrangers/workstations*

alright, right now I am working on a PSR-740 (love it) for my gigs and also for sequencing, etc etc. I am looking to buy a second keyboard. I am not sure if the new keyboards out there are significantly better or not, but I am interested in finding out. Im primarily a musician, but also a geek so whatever keyboard I buy, i want something with lots of options, Im looking for something that is good for gigging but also just for casual home use or sequencing. Obvoiusly, im quite a novice, so dont insult me to much, you guys seem really intelligent and well-learned about this stuff, so perhaps you can steer me in the right direction whether it be yamaha, korg, technics, etc.

Not sure what kind of advice you're after here, my friend. What do you want the second kb to DO? Will you use both ath the same time? Do you sing?
There's lots of knowledge here, but we'll need a more specific question to help you !
Welcome aboard.

alright alright alright, its kind of late, but let me try to specifiy.

first of all, i am only 16, which probably accounts for my limited knowledge of keyboards. as far as gigs, i play @ a local cigar bar, and parties here and there, but most of my playing is done at home. I would say that I spend more time improvising and playing on spot than sequencing, and while I dont want something necessarilly over-complicated, I certainly am tech-savvy enough to learn and adapt. As I said, right now I am working on a Yamaha PSR 740, and so I immediately figured a Tyros or 2100 would be the next logical upgrade? Unfortunately, I am a serious novice, and know very little about the world of keyboards outside of my limited experience with Yamaha's and Korg's. If you cannot make any recomendations or point me in the right direction yet, I will be happy to answer any more questions you need. Thanks man

ah, also, I dont generally sing, altho I am interested in starting a ben folds-esque band perhaps w/ local drummer/bassists/or sax
- ses

*one more question: is the psr740 still considered an adequate keyboard? do new ones radically outperform ? just curious thanks *

[This message has been edited by Sesom163 (edited 08-16-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Sesom163 (edited 08-16-2003).]

PSR-2000 or 2100 would be my choice. Have a 2000 myself and very pleased with it. But if you got the money and the price of Tyros don´t shake you too much, why not Tyros.

I know many keyboard players including myself use more than one keyboard or at least two keyboards during gig or live shows. I am thinking about instead of buying another high end second keyboard for top which is oftentimes used for lead, brass, or organ sound while the bottom keyboard is used mainly for Accoustic and electric piano sound. Why not just buy an inexpensive keyboard midi controller from MAudio and connect it to your main keyboard like Motif or Tyros and get the sound from it. There are thousands of sounds from it already. I don't know how effective it is. I haven't tried it yet but I know it will work.

The aqdvantages of upgrading to a 2xxx are many from the 740.
1)harmonizer. Even if you don't sing, this input can be used for guitars or line-inputs from other instruments
2)interface. Larger screen...more direct access to most real time features
3)better speakers
4)more memory for styles
5)new sounds
.....this list is subjective, but goes on from there.

The Tyros is another step forward (maybe a leap)adding:
1)hard drive
2)double polyphony
3)new mega voices
4)better mic input
5)better key feel(I'm told)

The 2100 will cost you abought 1/2 of the Tyros price. You'll have to decide if those extras are worth it to you.

Somebody kind sent me an email and explained to me that Tyros also has better quality sounds in comparison to 2100, other than the Mega voices. In other words, more memory is put into Tyros sounds to get higher resolution of sampling. Now that is very important for professional recording in my opinion. When recording in a studio, you want your song not to sound coming from keyboard, but people feel that it is coming from real instruments and that when you play styles and record them, people should not think that these are styles but that these are sequenced songs track by track.

I would suggest an alternative route for you. Since you are relatively young, I hate to see your creative abilities tempered by an arranger keyboard.

I would suggest you get a Yamaha Motif ES. This keyboard will have a great Piano patch for you to hone your core piano skills. It will have a killer sequencer with a new technology called a "Phrase Factory" which will essentially allow you to create killer arpeggios and Multi-Pads. The Motif will have the Mega voices of the Tyros and Killer Synth sounds. YOu will also be able to sample your own sounds.

With the Motif and the 740, you will have the best of both worlds, but the Motif will allow your musical ability and creativity to expand past your 16 years. I also think the Motif will be slightly less expensive than some of the other arrangers.

I really think the Synth approach will force you to be more creative and develop your own grooves, your own sounds, and your own "style" of music.

Al

alright, to clear up, what is the fundemental difference between an arranger like the 2100 and a synth like the Motif? Also, what about something like the Technix SX 7000 (is that correct) or the Genysis? As far as develping my piano skills, for me creativity and performance ability is key. I am primarily a rock/pop/jazz pianist and do most of my playing by ear rather than thru reading music (my reading skills are way behind my playing skills , which makes learing especially tedious) eh, anyways, thanks guys, please keep up the suggestions, i searched endlessly for an educated group of keyboardists and perhaps i have finally found one

comparing Motif ES with 2100 is easy. The quality of sounds in Motif ES are superior because the Motif contains huge memory that is supposedly utilized to hold better sampled sounds. That what I was told. In other words, if you want higher quality sounds, motif es, supposedly, will beat 2100 big time. That is not to say that 2100 is bad or that it is different. They are close enough for live performance but distant enough for professional recording.

Other than that, I would say that Motif es has no styles nor speakers.

The real comparison is between Tyros and Motif es. What is the difference? Are the sounds identical on both? We know that Motif es has the Mega voices. But we also know that it has tons of memory.

hmm, no styles on the motif? but it still has a nice sequencer. Is the Motif particularly hard to use, I probably would not be phased by a style-less intrument (especially since I will be using the PSR740 side by side) but I still want something that I can bring to a venue, plug into speakers or whatever, and sit down an play, nothing extraneous to deal with

The Motif has a steep learning curve. If you are a newby to Workstation Keyboards you will most likely find the Motif rather daunting to Navigate and figure out how to use its many features. The new Motif ES which will hit the shelves in November or thereabouts, is suppose to be somewhat easier to use and Navigate than its predecessor. Once you figure it out you won't be disappointed in the Sounds or capabilities the Mo ES possesses IMO. In fact you should be the talk of town or at least in your own inner circle of friends by the fact that you will own the newest "Monster" Workstation Keyboard on the Market.

Best regards,
Mike

PS: Actually, if you get a Tyros you will have the best Arranger on the market (Tyros was voted Arranger Keyboard of the Year for 2003), plus the sounds on the Tyros are comparable in many ways to the Motif for quality. But then again since you already have a PSR 740, you may want to stick with it and get the Motif ES and use the Mo' for Studio Production and also to Gig with while you could use the 740 for 'doodling' around with to get ideas for songs.

I have to agree with idatrod... The Motif has a very steep learning curve.. Especially for a beginner. However one of the members did make a good point when suggesting a synth along with your arranger. The Motif isn't a budget synth, but you might want to consider something like the Korg Triton Le.. It's a budget synth.. Not too hard on the pocket if you got the money, and the learning curve isn't as steep as the Motif. The Motif does not have styles, and is not an arranger meaning it doesn't have the auto accomp feature of the 740.. The Motif does however have preset drums beats. I think they is something like 50 or so... They're pretty good too.. Some nice hip hop stuff in there. The 740's still a great keyboard, and having it along with a synth like the Triton Le would be good.. Here's another idea.. You can get the best of both worlds with a Korg PA-80 or PA-60... It's basically an arranger with many synth functions like in depth voice editing.. There are several users here with the PA's as well.. I know Bluezplayer is one of them..

Squeak

As you are probably on a budget and as you stated are new to keyboard thing, I would suggest an older synth, workstation or even an arranger. Something cheap to really learn about keyboards and texture creation. You could get several keyboards and still keep it under a thousand dollars. Say a Yamaha DX-7, Ensoniq ASR-10, Roland D-50, Kurzweil K-1200 (or even a PC-88) maybe even a Generalmusic S2(3), Generalmusic Equinox. Now none of these that I mentioned are arrangers, but everyone of them are professional instruments that are still used on stage today, and will teach you a lot about midi, sampling, FM synth, Sound texture etc.. Things that will make you a better musician and give you the ability to create your own sound and style. IMO is almost more important than your playing still, as this will make you sound different, which differentiates you from others that use stock sounds.

That is it. I am not buying a motif.

hmm, well, actually from my gigs, i have a good deal saved up, and would rather by something newer that will last me longer; im getting positive vibes on this Motif ES, but id like to here more about the PA 80 , any of you with PA's care to share a bit about them?

The only drawbacks to the PA80 are the drum fills and the vocal harmonizer. The actual tone of the harmonies is good, but the control is way out in left field. There is NO way to trigger harmonies except in VOCODER type mode. Actual notes played translate to actual harmony voices sounded. Very wrong to only include that method.
The drum fill are horrid. Many sound like a new drummer stepped in to play the fills and let another player handle the rest of the trax. Again...great tone and kits, but lousy control.
The PSR drum patters are more usable ina generic sense.

The strengths of the PA80 are:
1)dual sequencers
2)multitasking with ease
3)good feel
4)better than average piano sample
5)stereo inputs to the SPEAKERS.
6)SPEAKERS
7)multiple outs
8)deep editing of sounds and styles
9)rewritable styles...even factory styles.
10)light weight, yet pretty loud and powerful.

Hi Mike

I missed that award for the Tyros. Where did you see that?

Thanx

Scott Langholff

alright so, a few more questions (they never stop ) , first of all, what are the prices (MSRPs, or even what you got your for) on the PA80, Tyros, and 2100 and when is this Motif ES i keep hearing about coming around

Here's a suggestion: if you don't especially need an arranger or the most sophisticated studio instrument and you just want a solid and respectable gigging keyboard, check out the Kurzweil KME-61 which is selling for under $700 currently.

Do you think Kurzweil will ever make an arranger KB?

well, price is not necesarily an issue m8