No one here can say they've heard me and Uncle Dave get into it. It all has to do with humility huh Uncle Dave.

i think you should be able to say what you truthfully think about any performance.... i reckon it is perfectly acceptable to say you didn't like something or that you think someone played or sang something poorly, that is, after all, the point of an opinion....as for attempting to "correct" a performance (as mentioned by robert) well, perhaps thats the no-go area as everyone who plays has an interpretation, and, well, maybe they wanted that wrong note there on purpose....its like people in the classical field who make a great fuss (a negative one) over a player who may feel a piece needs a few more notes here an there, or slightly different timing or passion...no-one but the composer or the player truly knows what they are trying to convey in both technique and sound...so all we are left with is our "opinion" as to whether or not we liked it, or if it was different to our knowledge of the original performance/composition....there is way to much dilly-dallying with opinions in this world...if more truth were told i believe the world would not be in the state it's in...by conveying the truth a person knows exactly where they, and you, stand, and if you speak your truth's quietly and without rancour, i believe people can deal with that, far better than any well-intentioned lie......you don't need to "suck up" to someone before stating your opinion..that's diplomacy and look where thats got the world!!! just say what you think, but in a non- aggressive/personal way...there's no need , imo, to "soften" the blow....anyway, just my contribution to this topic fwiw...
dennis

Dennis: I understand your point about the classical field. Glenn Gould upset many with the Goldberg recordings. I find the entire issue quite amusing when you consider that Bach and Mozart were both great improvisers of their time and it was Joplin who was very much opposed to there being variations to his work. Marcus Roberts has received great reviews of his interpretation of Joplin; however, Roberts is quick to acknowledge that it wouldn’t have been to Joplin’s liking.

I am about as far from the Political Correctness crowd as you can get. I am a staunch defender of your right to say what you didn’t like something. However, to fully accept your position, you have to start with the supposition that there is the potential of a performance with no redeeming value at all what so ever. It’s not diplomacy to point out positives as well as negatives and to be specific beyond your feelings. I believe it lays a foundation to help the performer improve. That of course is imo fwiw.

In truth, the truth is just opinion. Your opinion may be YOUR truth, but it still really YOUR opinion.

This world is getting enough of people who think their opinion is THE TRUTH........

Used to be, once upon a time, when people, face to face, would use diplomacy and good manners to get their point across, but nowadays even face to face discourse rarely gets above grade-school 'yeah? Whatever!' (see Bill O'Reilly for details), and as for civility on a forum, forget about it.

It's time that each and every one of us read our posts out loud as if addressed to our significant other (or mother!), and then ask ourselves would we be upsetting the other person to say this out loud.

If there is a moments doubt about it, time to edit that post (BEFORE you send it!). Letters (and forum postings are just a 21st century equivalent) should be MORE civil than face to face conversation, not less........

Even a criticism can be phrased to take the sting out of it. If you can't be bothered to do this, what does this say about you (and your almighty opinion, not 'truth').....?

hi robert,
yes, valid point(on your second par)....and yes as well to your first par.... i think that it was perhaps because of this ability that both of them created such wonderful music
cheers
dennis

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 09-03-2006).]

Hi Miden:

Both of them?! "Both" generally refers to 2 people, so I'm curious which two people listed by RobertG (above) you were specifically referring to: Glenn Gould, JS Bach, Wolfgang Mozart, Scott Joplin, Marcus Roberts, or?

Scott

.........maybe it was Boo and I ?

I agree with everyone, yet I am not convinced on which is the "right" or "better suited" way. Please advice, or read what I say and comment if you like. Of course the questions here are questions regarding myself, but it may apply to you. I would like to read your comments.

What exactly is criticism and what is opinion? Who can criticize and who can be entitled to express his opinions? Does it take a "higher authority" (more experienced mucisian) to criticize?

Let me use some examples:
1) Most (if not all) of the guys here, can play better than me, even if blindfolded and with broken arms. That is an undisputed truth. So, can I critisize if I can't do it better myself? Can I say "Well, my friend, I think that you shouldn't do legato there and you should add some pads there" ???

2) Synthzone member XXX, can sing good enough. But I may personally NOT like his/her voice. What am I supposed to say? "Dear member, you are a good singer, but I would leave the room immediately after your first song because I can't stand your voice?"

3) When does well founded criticism stop and becomes "my liking" ?. If you don't like gangsta rap, even if you are an accomplished musician, how are you supposed to comment? Most of the time, I have never heard any of the songs you post in their original form. Can I simply say "I liked it, even if I havent heard it before?"

Of course you may answer that I dont have to give my opinion in everything. The question is, is my opinion (as an inexperienced player) worth a damn?

To me, criticism applies to technique, and opinion is about "like" and "dislike".

And don't get me started about IF the person who plays/sings is WILLING and OPEN enough to hear opinions and criticism and transform them into lessons for the future. Most of the time, IMHO, probably not. We like to be adored, and don't like to be bashed, for any reason. It is natural.

Trident: I don't think it is an issue of right or authority or that being a more or less accomplished performer determines if you can comment. For me, it's the issue of explaining the reason for your like/dislike or why you believe something is incorrect.

I agree with you completely that people like to be adorned. If I don't like someones singing, or don't care for a particular style of playing and have nothing constructive/specific to say about it, I don't. If I have something to add that I think would improve the performance from my perspective/opinion, I will. IMHO.

scott, i meant of course wolfie and joey, although the post was a BIT ambiguous LOL
cya
dennis