You can tweak those Yamaha stereo samples to sound better in a mono situation.
How can you trash the benefits of SO many other advantages to accomodate the one or two weak links in Yamaha's sound banks?
Here's how I see it:
Voice - better in PAS
Bass - Better in PAS
Drums - Better in PAS
Piano - Slightly better in stereo

That's my order of importance too, so if the weakest link is the piano sound - then fix it! I did, and I love the result.

Adding a second tower for stereo is not a "fix all" solution. The way this unit spreads the sound is so different from anything else you know. It's almost as if a second one is a waste. I use two, 2 nights a week....and I've gone to using them in dual mono because the stereo separations is not as pronounced as it is in a system that is more directional. These poles are SO efficient ..... you really just have to find the sweet spot and then enjoy the ride.

Naturally, if you don't set it up to sound the best ... then it won't. You can't just plug in and expect it to behave like your Mother's old PA. It's a new desigh and it works differently than all the rest. ALL the rest.

Believe me - as fickle as I am with gear - I'd dump these in a heartbeat if I thought that anyone made a better sound system for me, but so far in EVERY catagory, the PAS has proven to be a clear winner to reproduce my sound for my clients.

The weakness is in the Yamaha samples .... not the sound system.

Art...
Congratulations on Heres 2 The Arts. A neat concept and one that I hope will be very successful for you.

I am familiar with Maple Shade...but have not heard of Maple Wood. Where is it?
Eddie

Has anyone tried the PAS with a Roland keyboard? Is the same problem with their sampled piano and/or other sounds?
Dave, you tested the VA-7, didn't you?


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Roy-Andrè

Uncle Dave said it all. I use the BOSE with my Tyros, TC Helicon Voice works, an Alesis Multi-mixer and with my partner who sings and sounds like Englebert/Tom Jones, we sound like an orchestra. People are amazed as to how clear the sound is and where it's coming from. The only drawback is when we get a extra louder, the limiter clicks in and lays back the sound. I have the Mackie 450 and the FBT MAxx 4A, but mostly use the Bose PAS. It's light, and easy to put together. I eventually thought about a second pole, but after just reading what Uncle Dave wrote, I will now tend to not buy one just for stereo, unless I use a second pole for DeeJaying. I have the second sub-woofer.

UD. You state you tweak the Yammy samples to sound better on the PAS in Mono. Does this mean you treat all the voices that you would normally use in you registration set ?.

Dave I am NOT criticising your comments, but It would be interesting to what sort of tweaking is required because myself coming from working in sound most of my working life, I have not managed to transfer a stereo sample to sound better in mono.

[This message has been edited by Graham UK (edited 11-05-2004).]

It's NOT possible to get a stereo sample to sound as good 'in mono' as it did in stereo. You lose the spatial ambience that true stereo provides. In the case of Yamaha stereo samples which also utilize stereo 'effects', when mixed to MONO, these effects are completely canceled out, leaving only the (phase canceled) raw sample heard. Yuck! I returned to the music store and with the assistance of the pro audio mgr, we tried tweaking the Bose PAS EQ settings till the cows came home, but were still never able to achieve (even close to) the realistic sound quality of the stereo piano sample as when heard thru discreet left/right speakers. I admit that a single Bose PAS unit sounds downright EXCEPTIONAL for vocals, acoustic instruments, & for mono electronic keyboard samples, but not stereo. I cannot afford to compromise the sound quality of the acoustic piano. - Scott

Scott,
What you're missing here is the realization that the small, limited field that showcases the stereo imaging is lost when you get 15 feet from the stage area. There are sound cancellations that occur all around the room from natural revrberations and you add to the mess with speakers that "throw" the sound in a conventional manner.

The tweaking needed to make the sample is specific to my head, my velocity settings and my rooms is just that: specific.
It's pointless to argue that stereo in itself is better than mono - it can;t be proven. An acoustic piano is a mono instrument and the natural reverberations of the room make it fuller and more spacious. The issusion that stereo creates is limited to the immediate seating/listening area. The reality that the Bose creates can fill a room the size of a football field where everyone hears the same, hi-fi sound in all areas of the room. No conventional stereo system does that without rear speakers and time delay devices.

You're kidding yourself if you think that stereo carry further than the dance floor. It's like flash photography. There is a finite limit to how far the image travels....and it's not that far.

The Bose adds a new, powerful dimension to the sound that is superior to the aspect of stereo when compared back to back.
I love stereo sound .... when I'm in the sweet spot. Unfortunately, I'm usually the only one in that sweet spot at work.

I wish you all the best in your quest for the sound that floats your boat. For me - it's called PAS.
P ositively
A wesome
S ound

Yeah.

btweengigs,

Maplewood is about 10 miles west of Newark Airport. We are in Essex county and as I mentioned earlier we are a cafe dedicated to all of the arts. We work with local painters, musicians and all forms of stage performers from comedians on Monday nights, Open mic nights on Tuesday (music + poetry + drama and book reading and even Karaoke), Thursdays (more often then not single and small group musicians), Wednesday is our Jazz night (with our house Jazz Duo, Bob Ackerman and Pam Purvis), Friday is "Guest Band" night (normally picked from one of the open mic nights), Saturday, the Amazing and Wonderful Art & Willie (my wife and myself) and Sunday night, my personal favorite, Jam night. I get to start playing and anyone who wants to join me (vocalists, we've had violinists, pianists, guitar, sax, oboe and even a Sousaphone) just join in. This has proven to form some very interesting combinations.

Certainly any and all Synth Zone members are welcome if you should happen to be in the area.

BTW, I'm still using an I3 as my main keyboard controller along with an X4 and and XV5050. If you get a chance to come to the cafe you'll see that I actually get to play both the keyboard and my 1962 Fender Jazzmaster at the same time....strange but true. Oh, I also have an Ovation 12 string that has a sound I think you'll fall in love with when you hear it. These are in addition to the Bose PAS system, Roland Keyboard Amp, Peavy Base and Guitar amps. Naturally, there are a variety of other toys that some of you electronic musicians I'm sure will appreciate.

Stop by anytime, we'll try to make you you'll feel at home,

Art G

Uncle Dave & Scott,
There are a few other issues with Bose PAS which should be aired. First let me re-iterate my previous comment that PAS is without doubt a new dimension in sound distribution, & Bose deserve full applause for their pioneering of this technology.
However as it applies to arranger kbds,it is wrong for Uncle Dave to be so dismissive of the stereo issue...I've also read up on Bose & other comentators on this one....Forget about stereo for a moment and just think about sound seperation. All modern KBDs use stereo fields for this purpose as well as the Stereo thing.
I will bet you that within the not too distant future Bose will bring out their PAS version which will address both sound seperation & Stereo all at once in one package.....Just Watch..

Next issue (for Kbds) is control of bass in varying environments. you cannot control vol / intensity of PAS Bass without affecting all other sounds on the KBD..that is in your 20 min. setup time before the gig. The best way to achieve this is via a seperate powered B'bin with Vol. control.

Next issue...PAS really excells in 'OPEN' environments i.e open hall with raised stage, or in Church or in open air.
However, because of the wave dispersion pattern...sound from PAS is easily blocked by close crowd situations ...a dozen or so people standing in front of you...PAS is distributing from floor level to about 7' high...unlike conventional systs where spks are pole mounted.

In conclusion, I believe that these are strong arguments for Bose to address as they move forward on this one,and especially as Stereo Sampled Sounds is the future for KBD Mfgs.
There are 2 different objectives being pursued by KBD and AMP Mfgs.
KBD Mfg...best poss reproduction of individual instument sounds.
AMP Mfg...best poss distribution, dispertion
& overall sound Quality...multipurpose.

Eventually they will each be forced to recognise the need to meet both objectives...however that is to be achieved.

I have already put these issues to Bose...so we'll see what happens.

I can only hope we're not left waiting too long...and don't forget all of the other PA/Amp guys watching on from the sideline...they wont be too far behind either.

LeoD..2cents worth.



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LeoD...Committed to Live
Performance & use of M.Pads

If you don't run stereo with the Bose and you plugin a keyboard doing Hammond and Leslie simulation, don't you only hear half of the leslie spin? Isn't that going to sound like vibrato instead of a spin effect?