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#213378 - 11/08/04 06:13 PM Re: BOSE PA system
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by royandreno:
Has anyone tried the PAS with a Roland keyboard? Is the same problem with their sampled piano and/or other sounds?
Dave, you tested the VA-7, didn't you?



royandreno,
I have a Roland XV-88 full size synth that I run through a PAS with 1 subwoofer.....my patches sound awesome. I think Roland does a great job of sampling down their stereo sounds. When I bought the keyboard, I played a lot of different brands and checked out the stereo piano patch using only L line out into a mono keyboard amp. The Roland samples were the best hands down. I currently own 2 XV-88s and 2 Bose Systems. (one for the studio/gigs and one for home).
Jeff www.theunmentionables.com

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#213379 - 11/08/04 06:28 PM Re: BOSE PA system
royandreno Offline
Member

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 451
Loc: Sandnes, Norway
Quote:
Originally posted by holliwil:

royandreno,
I have a Roland XV-88 full size synth that I run through a PAS with 1 subwoofer.....my patches sound awesome. I think Roland does a great job of sampling down their stereo sounds. When I bought the keyboard, I played a lot of different brands and checked out the stereo piano patch using only L line out into a mono keyboard amp. The Roland samples were the best hands down. I currently own 2 XV-88s and 2 Bose Systems. (one for the studio/gigs and one for home).
Jeff www.theunmentionables.com

[/QUOTE]

Thanks Jeff!
I checked out your web page, really cool! I think you are the guys that have been modelling the Bose stage advertizing drawings!
At least you are good ambassadours for the system. Bet you have a tremendous sound.
Thanks again,



------------------
Roy-Andrč
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Roy-Andrč

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#213380 - 11/09/04 05:43 AM Re: BOSE PA system
smythrocks Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/09/04
Posts: 10
Loc: Rochester Hills, MI. USA
About a month ago I sold:
1 Yamaha EMX5000
2 Yamaha SW118 Subwoofers
2 Yamaha SW115 Club Speakers
1 DBX Drive Pa (crossover/EQ etc)
1 Crown CE1000 power amp
1 QSC power amp
2 Speaker Poles (tripod)
2 Speaker Poles that fit into the sub

I bought a pair of Bose PAS and 4 subs.

I guess the first comment I have is that when dealing with Bose -it's not about the economics but the sound, and in this case ease of set up. The above was alot to carry around (although not necessarily always used at the same time)

I'm a bit of an impulse buyer and when I came upon or shall I say learned of the Bose PAS I said self, "I got to get me couple of these". I'll be honest, I was tired of hauling all my PA gear from the basement, loading it into my pickup, then unloading it all for the gig, setting it up, sound checking, tweaking, worrying about monitor mixing with the front of house mix etc. It was mostly the haulin' up and down the basement stairs (and not pissin' off my wife when I scratches the wood floor in the kitchen).

The first pole and 4 subs arrived a couple of days prior to the second pole. Of course I could only plug the two subs in. I run all my keyboards through an Alesis 12R rack mixer when I'm gigging. I also use the TC Helicon Voiceworks as opposed to the poorly executed vocal harmonization in the Tyros. In the past this was a stereo feed to the front of house speakers and a mono mix to the monitors.

I ran the monitor "mix" into channel 1 of the PAS and ran the TC Helicon directly to the PAS and not out of the Alesis. I set everything flat on the PAS. This of course all being in my basement. Then I played a couple of midi files, followed by a few Tyros styles (to hear the megavoicing). I will agree the piano wasn't quite as good as I would have hoped, but overall this speaker rocked. It was as loud 12 inches away from it as it was 12 feet. Very very crisp. The vocals were the best I've ever heard and I thought they sounded pretty good coming from the Yamaha club speakers.

I'm in two bands. The first one is a classic rock band with "real" musicians. Typically I would run a stereo feed to the main board and then run a keyboard monitor mix to a speaker behind me and then one sitting between the drummer and lead guitar player. As far as I know the sound was fine both through the main pa and the monitor -although the monitor (being mono) never really allowed for the full sound many of the Tyros panel voices can give. The Roland VR-760 performance keyboard actually tending to sound better mono than stereo. If the front of house speakers are too far apart the "rotor" effect can sound a little weird going back and forth across the mains. I then tend to run that keyboard mono. It sounds fine (going stereo) when it's set up in my small studio and I'm listening to all the boards through a pair of Yamaha active monitors.

The speakers are so tall (or my basement is so short) that I had to cut a hole in the ceiling dry wall to allow enough space to pull the top portion of the L1 off of the bottom portion. (kind of funny)

When gigging with the rock band my intent is to only use 1 PAS and 1 sub. This will take the place of two speakers and either the EMX5000 (which wasn't light) or a separate MG10 and power amp, two speaker stands. Plus, I'm using 2 channels on the main and I'm tired of fighting with the lead singer on volumn issues. So, when I gig now what I and the rest of band hear on stage I hope will be enough for the audience. We do not have the funds necessary to elimintate the band's pa, bass amp and of course my guitarist is a bit of a purest and as threatened death to us all if we eliminate is Marshal stacks. I think the Bose PAS and 1 sub will be quite fine for this band.

The second "band" I'm in will present a number of issues that have been discussed in this thread. This band is actually a duo. All of our material is based on midi files played by the Tyros. I add additional instrumentation and solo work and then my partner plays acoustic guitar. He sings 80% of the material with myself adding harmony based upon the TC Helicon.

I purchased the second PAS being concerned about stereo. Most of the midi files we use are professional grade and most I have tweaked substantionally to make use of Tyros panel voices, to eliminate redundant tracks or to add tracks where appropriate based on what I'm going to play. In my basment, with two PAS and 4 subs the Tyros sounded....simply awesome. My voice never sounded so good - and belive me that's saying something. (we ran the Tyros in Stereo) Tom's acoustic guitar was right in the mix. It was very clean. You could hear him hit the strings etc. A very very crisp sound, yet there was plenty of bottom end. I could not really crank it up because I was afraid that glassware on a bar shelf might vibrate off.

Then I plugged in my stereo and listend to some old "Floyd". WOW!!!

We are making arrangements to set up our new gear and try it out before actually using it. I agree that some of the Tyros sampled sounds may in fact sound better in stereo, on the other hand if one is sitting to the extreme left or right, one is not going to hear the correct sound. The bottom line too, is I wonder just how many people in the audience would really know if it's stereo or mono.

At any rate, these are truely awesome speakers and will save my back countless future surgeries. I have never heard a speaker system that sounds this good and believe you me, I have gone through quite a few. It's going to be a little strange for the both of us having everything behind us. By design my vocals will come out of one side and his will come out of the other. We are very interested in understanding just what that will sound like "out front". We both have wireless mics so of course will try it out. I think we'll send the Tyros out in stereo and the other two keyboards (Fantom X8 and Vk-740) mono to the PAS behind me. Tom's guitar will more than likely be just behind him. It's going to be a wild ride.

If you're just starting to think about amps, and speakers and compressors and all the "gearhead" stuff I would highly recommend trying out the PAS.

....by the way.....they look pretty cool too.

Well, that's my 5cents.


Quote:
Originally posted by Scottyee:
$2,000 per speaker. I auditioned the Bose PAS(both on a gig & in a studio environment), and when used in conjunction with my Yamaha Tyros keyboard playing a stereo sampled instrument, was UNDER impressed. Then again, Uncle Dave utilizes it and claims it sounds terrific with his Yamaha PSR3000, so I suppose it's: different strokes (ears) for different folks. The only way the Bose would work for me is if I had TWO, but that would cost: $4,000. - Scott




[This message has been edited by smythrocks (edited 11-09-2004).]

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#213381 - 11/09/04 09:33 PM Re: BOSE PA system
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Quote:
Originally posted by LeoD:
you cannot control vol / intensity of PAS Bass without affecting all other sounds on the KBD


I have no trouble getting a good, solid bass response from my system with one or two bins. They don't have a separate vol control, but the overal bass pot on the remote adds just the right freq for my taste.

The issue of crowds in front of you has not come up for me yet. Even in tight situations, the height seems to carry the sound where it needs to go. I suppose if the conditions were horrid - a pole mounted speaker WAY above the heads of the corwd COULD carry better, but I'd need to see it in each situation to verify that. So far .... my big mouth is amplified in every corner of every room I go to........... not sure if that's good or bad (kidding, of course)
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#213382 - 11/09/04 09:56 PM Re: BOSE PA system
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Quote:
Originally posted by smythrocks:
I will agree the piano wasn't quite as good as I would have hoped


Smyth, are you saying here, that even with your TWO PAS units (total $4,000) connected up in stereo, the Yamaha stereo piano voice still didn't sound that great?

Please clarify.

Scott
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#213383 - 11/10/04 11:03 AM Re: BOSE PA system
LeoD Offline
Member

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 33
Loc: Lusk, Co. Dublin . Rep.of Irel...
ERR.. Excuse me scottyee...ditto to your question...except where I am the cost in dollars is more like 7,300...for 2PAS single Bass units, now you wanna get some improvement in sound for that sort of money...you guys in US have it easy.
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Performance & use of M.Pads

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#213384 - 11/10/04 11:07 AM Re: BOSE PA system
LeoD Offline
Member

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 33
Loc: Lusk, Co. Dublin . Rep.of Irel...
ERR.. Excuse me scottyee...ditto to your question...except where I am the cost in dollars is more like 7,300...for 2PAS single Bass units, now you wanna get some improvement in sound for that sort of money...you guys in US have it easy.
LeoD
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LeoD...Committed to Live
Performance & use of M.Pads

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#213385 - 11/10/04 08:30 PM Re: BOSE PA system
Anonymous
Unregistered


It depends on what you want to use it for. If you just want to entertain yourself, then it's hard to beat standing in the "sweet spot" created by a stereo field in your living room or basement. If you are a serious entertainer and you want to deliver a clean, crisp sound to all areas of a large room, there is no better way to do it than with a PAS. This is a completely different type of sound wave we are talking about here. It penetrates the room like nobody's business, with little or no distortion. It uses the natural dynamics of the room to create an amazing performance. And the real beauty of it is the sound does not change according to where you are standing. What you hear in your perfect little spot behind your keyboard is what everyone else hears, no matter where they are. Unfortunately, this kind of technology is expensive; but if you think "I have to have 2 units so I can have stereo", you are thinking along the wrong line. The PAS makes the change from Stereo to Mono quick and easy once you perform with it. If you have a hard time believing this, do the 45 day free trial offered by Bose. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain as a performer.

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#213386 - 11/21/04 05:42 AM Re: BOSE PA system
LeoD Offline
Member

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 33
Loc: Lusk, Co. Dublin . Rep.of Irel...
Hey Guys,
I'm sorry to see this topic dry up so abrubptly...as I don't think we have resolved the real issue with Bose PAS...& that is not the stereo Image...but the degradation of STEREO SAMPLES. In particular the Tyros Grand Pno...is quite awful through PAS..
I would welcome some comment on the following as poss solution to this issue..
1..Stereo Out exKbd..to 2 active spks(Yam 300/Mackies/ others...positioned L & R sides

2..Link from each L&R into 2 chans of PAS..positioned centre stage

3..Balance Vols from all 3 spks to be equal

The 2 outer Spks..should serve to preserve integrity of stereo Samples & give some element of stereo field...While PAS's output from center position is a monofield
giving that wide dispersion that only Pas can do...

I'm about to try such a set up tonight in a good size Hall...Adult Dance Venue...In meantime would like some input from tou guys I may not get much opportunity to evaluate myself...am a little concerned as to how the different Wave fields will react.

If succesful (subjective of course) it is a cheaper option to 2PAS ...&could very well be better...if a bit more cumbersome

I propose above in a 2 pce setup where Tyros is the primary input including Mics & everything out through all..

LeoD
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LeoD...Committed to Live
Performance & use of M.Pads

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#213387 - 11/21/04 06:58 AM Re: BOSE PA system
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Leo,
What you're suggesting is a waste of time and money. The whole idea behind the Bose is to save space and spread sound. You don;t have to hook up 2 other speakers ... you need to get a hi end sound that sums well to mono, or fix the sound in the kb you have.
This whole discussion of why the Yamaha piano sounds so bad in mono has NOTHING to do with the Bose. The sample is just weak, that's all. It relies on stereo effects to give it charachter. I tweaked the sound on the 3k Live Grand and it works very well in mono. You need to edit it while you listen through the Bose.

Using a system like you described is like selling the Bose short. If you MUST hear the sound in stereo ..... just don;t get teh PAS. It's pretty simple, really. But, if you have an open mind, and an open ear ...... really give this baby a test because it can save your back, simplify your life, increase your effectivness and improve your visual. Whew! What a product.

Hey !
Bose Marketing/endorsements .... is my check in the mail yet?
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