I was told by Roland that the G70 will be sold as follows.
Dealer has a Demonstration model supplied free. from this he takes the order and the customer makes payment direct to Roland who then ships it direct to the customer.
With the above arrangement Roland have control of it's selling price and the Dealer always obtains his full profit. This stops individual Dealers from discounting. A policy I am sure will have full Dealer support.

Actually, it sounds like price fixing.

P.S. I've been in music retail since 1976.

Scott

Scott. If you are still in retail I would have thought Roland's policy situation should please you.

Bad news.
This way of buy G70 directly to Roland, not to dealer, will make:

-customer will pay more money for the kb.
-customer will must pay before G70 arrive!.
-the 30 days for trial and return will be not possible.

doesn't it?

It's not going to happen!!

No way. It's a baaaaaaad thing for retailers too.

What Graham is saying is a fact
This has been confirmed to me by Roland U.K. .. and several dealers here in the U.K.
It is in fact price fixing...
We here in the U.K. can not shop around for the best price for the G70...
We will have to pay full retail.

That just.. sucks!

This makes a difference of 500 euro's/dollars at least, going with some negative side-effects.

This was only confirmed yet to jdx, but will it be worldwide?

For years Technics had tried to exercise similar control over their keyboards' prices, with no discounting, no mailorder sales allowed (at least here in North America). Despite having a great product, they folded, because they were too greedy.
I don't think they will be following the same sales model here in the US.

Without meaning to start an argument about the pitfalls of the 30-day return policy, I will say that there is no substitute to being able to try an instrument yourself, without anyone peering over the shoulder, and other customers rushing you. I usually don't return my purchases back to the Guitar Center, but on occasion I do find that whatever I bought was not suitable for my needs. Having the comfort of a 30-day return is a huge motivator in buying things from them. Roland will be losing sales fast if they switch to this.

This is my $0.02 worth.

Regards

The buying public have the power.....
Don't but the unit and Roland will get the message & change their selling policy. Theres too much competition out there.

Just like an old saying: A water too clear bears no fish at all. If Roland people want to suck every cent from the consumers, they are totally wrong.

Yes, they may want to learn from Dell, but that is a totally different story. Roland cannot do that.

Man that's messed up. Why is Roland doing this? I think they'll lose more business this way. Maybe they're not planning on making a lot of G-70's? Buying directly from them they can control the price and if a lot of people are turned away by this they can have better control on supply and demand. It still doesn't make sense though.

Squeak

MAYBE they'll price it fairly.....NAW!
DonM

I consider the price very reasonable...it's a lot of board for the money. UK Price is £2199 Uk Pounds. Remember the G70 is 76 keys and a lot less than the Tyros 61 keys.

Well once every one hears the wonderful sounds of the G70 and after a few people give their reviews about how great the G70 is, regardless of the selling policy the G70 will sell.

If people think that there is no alternative to the G70, they would more than likely buy it.

The greatness of the product is enough to make people buy it.


If that is Roland’s thinking, then they definitely would not have me as a buyer. I am already not impressed with the specs of this “new” board. If I want some good Roland sounds, I will get the Fantum module.

Actually, this may not be such a bad thing for the consumer. When I purchased my Tyros, it took Yamaha 5 months+ to ship to the distributors and another 2-4 weeks to dealers.

So, If I can order direct, I might receive it sooner! Also, if the price is comparable to the Tyros, then there is no need for deep cuts. But I'm sure the dealers in the States will be very put off by the lack of product opportunity.

One point to think about. If due to Roland's policy the price is held...this will mean the G70 will if or when you wish to sell it..should be worth more.
There nothing more upsetting than buying a product to find 3 months down the line that the item has been heavily reduced.
I expected the G70 to be in the Tyros PAX price point, but in fact the UK price of £2199 is a lot less and very competitive.

Huh?!

Do I have the numbers wrong or what? I thought £2199 Uk Pounds is roughly equivilent to $4,084.43 US dollars, which is "way MORE" money than the Tyros costs. I paid $2,400 US dollars for my Tyros nearly two years ago (when it first hit the streets) and I believe the Tyros street price is now even lower. As promising as the G70 seems, I would not be willing to pay $4,000 US dollars for a G70.

Scott

G-70 seems to at the same cost as Tyros.
At Thoman, http://www.netzmarkt.de/thomann
Tyros 2999 euro
G-70 2999 euro

The 2999 euro price is equivilent to $3,890.60 US dollars, still WAY HIGHER than than what I believe the $3,200 Tyros list price in the US, and 'astonomically' higher than the US $2,400 street price. Sounds to me here from what I'm reading, that keyboards (pd for pd, or euro for euro) are priced much higher in Europe, and which may be more due to the effect of the current world currency exchange rate.

I think Roland (to remain competitive) had better LOWER their G70 list price substantially, especially since there will be no negotiation room available to meet the other manufacter's equivilent 76 note arranger offerings (Korg PA1Xpro, Ketron SD1), selling for significantly lower street prices.

Scott

I did some calculating with the exchange rates I found on the net.
£2199 is about 3295 Euro, or 3900 Dollar like Scott already mentioned.

The suggested retail price for the G-70 is 3495 Euro in Holland, but the price in the stores varies from 2995 Euro to 2775 Euro (I did some checking around). If you take an average of 2900 it would be £ 1933 or USD 3476.

This all seems very unfair to the customer and I wonder how the dealership handles the pricing on your trade-in, or part exchange as the British call it... This is the only way they can give you a discount.

But what if you have nothing to trade in? Maybe buy a very old run-down keyboard in a garage sale for a few bucks, just for the trade-in? ;-)

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Tom NL

Obviously prices vary in different country's
UK Retail Prices are TYROS £2550. G70 £2199 Difference £350 UK Pounds.
A 76 Note Tyros Pro if ever it showed a face would be much higher than the G70's. £2199.

It is possible that it is just only Roland UK that this type of selling policy will take place


[This message has been edited by Graham UK (edited 11-14-2004).]

By the way, at about 2900 Euro the G-70 is priced exactly the same as the Tyros and the PA1X(PRO) in Holland, which to my opinion is what Roland's marketing department wants. If the price in the UK is significantly higher than for the PA1 and the Tyros, things won't work out for them in that market to my humble opinion. Even if this one most likely is the better buy.

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Tom NL

Do UK prices include VAT?

Yes Alex ...It does.

I wouldn't pay $4,000 for a Tyros III!

in regards to uk prices,you can get the tyros for less than £1800 (i doubt if none of our members would pay the rec/retail price unless it was bought on finance)this subject has come up many times,they are priced to a country to what they can (will) afford to pay,the best way is to go to a country for a holiday where you can buy at low prices,possibly taiwan? but if anything goes wrong then you will have to fork out for repairs,personally i would prefer it if i had a george kay or a dano etc shop locally and deal with them,their prices are fair and the aftersales service is second to none, mike

OK, This makes some sense. The US prices are usually quoted before sales tax, so subtract 17% (?) from the $4000 ($2100), and the US price becomes $3300 - this is in line with PA1X.

However, I believe that PA1X are selling rather poorly, mostly due to their high price.

I think Roland is trying to circumvent the problems that Yamaha had with the 9000 Pro: many typical Yamaha pro-line dealers wouldn't carry the 9000 Pro so a lot of potential customers never saw or heard it. Roland's direct-to-customer idea with the G70 seems like an interesting concept that at least may get demo models of the G70 onto the dealer floors. This concept also helps eliminate some of the problems that dealers have with being used as "try but not buy" places where customers try out the instruments but then buy from the web at cheaper prices and without sales tax. Same with customer help-desk issues. It also assures customers of getting new instruments and not a unit that has been demo'd to death and then repackaged (unless you buy the floor model of course, assuming you can at some point). And it takes the financial load off of dealers who often have to buy floor models only to watch them be destroyed by careless customers.

Except for the no-discount price thing and the inability to take a G70 home the same day you try it, I see this as a smart marketing strategy on Roland's part, particularly for local dealers. I know from being a former keyboard salesperson that I hated trying to sell keyboards to people only to have them buy it cheaper from an out of state dealer and then call me for help on how to use it. I couldn't blame them for trying to save money but I couldn't give away my time either and I often just wound up in a no-win situation. Like it or not, I'll bet we see other keyboard manufacturers adopt similar sales tactics.

I was waiting to see a post similar The Pro's. I agree. I think Roland is trying to facilitate the retailers by letting them order only what they sell. Roland will handle the shipping, eliminating the warehousing costs of the middleman. Can I get the G70 the same day I try it; probably, if the retaler is optimistic enough to order 2-3 himself, but for the smaller retailer it's simpler to take the order and let Roland ship it. I suspect that in the US, Roland will give the retailer a SRP and a wholesale price. Therefore, my store could sell for a few bucks more or less than another. Follow?

I too agree with Esh's asessment. I don't think this is that bad. Dealers get to have a demo for the customers, and we get a keyboard that hasn't been in the hands of several people having spent their 30 days trial time for the umphs time. If it seems fair priced, well then....

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Roy-Andrè

The Pro...Spot on reply...I agree with you fully on your comments. The customer wins in the end, he has a product that will keep better resale value.