Music123.com is suppose to have them in on March 20th. The Fantom X7 is the 'exact' same price as the Yamaha Motif ES7. So the thing that may swing people to the Fantom X's is the larger 'color' LCD screen, easy to use interface (HUGE!!), skipback Sampling, the X7 weighs over 10 lbs. LESS than the Motif ES7 - 32 lbs. vs. the Motif ES7's 42.3 lbs. The Fantom X6 weighs just 5 ounces more than the Tyros but unfortunately the Fantom X8 weighs 2.7 lbs. more than the Motif ES8. But when you get up into the 60 lb. range 2.7 lbs is neither here nor there really.

Also the Fantom X has 3 Multi Effects Processors with 78 types.

I guess were looking to trtJazz "Terry" for our first and intimate look at the Fantom X series Keyboards as Terry will no doubt make a beeline to assure he gets the "first one" sold unlike his Motif ES8 which according to records Terry's was only the "second" Motif ES sold. Somebody beat him to the first one. I don't think he'll make the same mistake twice.

Head of the pack and proud of it. LOL

Best regards,
Mike


[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 03-18-2004).]

"Fantom X doesn't have onboard ROM memory for user storage"

Preset Memory Patches: 1024 + 256 (GM2), Rhythm Sets: 40 + 9 (GM2), Performances: 64

User Memory Patches: 256, Rhythm Sets: 32, Performances: 64

Card Memory Patches: 256, Rhythm Sets: 32, Performances: 64

In Addition to that you have 16 MB internal Flash RAM for sample and sequence data storage.

And you can expand the sample and sequence data storage with Flash cards upto 1GB.

We'll have to wait and see if Fantom X has better sounds than Motif ES. I think currently Motif ES beats any Roland or Korg offering hands down in sounds department.

I too have my eyes on Fantom X, and sounds will be the deciding factor for me. I love Yamaha drums and acoustic sounds. Another setback for Roland is that it can't read any of the popular sample formats (Like Akai for example ...) I hope Fantom X can read other formats otherwise that 1GB RAM may not be as usable.

Well unles something odd takes place, then I no doubt will be trading the Motif in on the Fantom X.

That being 2nd on the Motif didn't cut it.
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

One huge plus I think the Fantom has over the Motif is those beautiful trigger pads What a great idea to put on a synth.

Squeak

Thanks for correcting me Shakil. I will edit my post accordingly.

So now there is even MORE reason to seriously consider the Fantom X.

Best regards,
Mike

"One huge plus I think the Fantom has over the Motif is those beautiful trigger pads What a great idea to put on a synth."

Squeak, I agree with you those pads are a great idea, especially in a live situation. That is one of the reasons I am waiting for Fantom X, if the sounds are not disappointing then that will be my next board.

American Musical Supply has Fantom-X6/7/8, and Motif Es is YAMAHA and FANTOM-X is Roland so don`t mix them up. I like Korg Trinity better then any Workstation even better then TRITON.

Fantom X has the most amount of mb for its sounds...more than the competition ...up to almost 1 gig of sounds when expanded. This beast must surely put the Tyros and other Workstation keyboards to shame in the sound deparment....we'll know for sure soon.

If you're interested in how it sounds:
http://www.rolandus.com/products/details.asp?CatID=8&SubCatID=36&ProdID=Fantom-X8 &PageMode=15

Go to the bottom interactive demo and click on it. The sounds are outstanding and still the very best by far IMO acoustic grand.

On top of which Scott Tibbs is a killer player, the boy's got the chops.
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 03-18-2004).]

Just for curiosity how much will the Fantom X-7 with the 1GB expansion cost ? Estimates ?

The questions that do arise when I read the text on harmony-central http://namm.harmony-central.com/WNAMM04/Content/Roland/PR/Fantom-X.html


and
"... these 128-note workstations can contain nearly 1GB of wave data when fully expanded. "

" ... The sampling section is also beefed up with capacity for up to 544MB of RAM using optional DIMMs ..."

The first is "ROM sound" and the second is sample RAM, right ?
What sample formats can it load in RAM (if it cannot read popular formats then sample ram is not of much use except for homemade samples but I doubt people need so much sample RAM when not using large commercial high quality sample libraries to be loaded in RAM)

Another question I assume "PC cards" are compact flash cards ? AFAIK they are quite slow, (only 1-2MB/sec transferrate) and probably not adequate to play samples from in real time so I assume some downloading to the faster RAM is needed (correct me if I'm wrong).

cheers,
Benno
http://www.linuxsampler.org

I'm waiting for the X as well. the S is a very intuitive interface, and my favorite thing is those pads can be used as "triggers" for different drum/rhythm loops, which is all the arrangerlike functionality I need. it's very easy to program one's own beats, etc., and if the sound ROM expansion is as good thru and thru as it is on the demo, roland might have themselves a beast here.

banno
At least it sounds good. It's also not built on future promises of what it will or could be.
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 03-18-2004).]

Did I hear somewhere that they're making a rack module version for this as well? like $700. I could swear I read that somewhere.

Yes I mentioned that in an earlier post and here it is:
http://www.rolandus.com/products/details.asp?catid=8&subcatid=37&prodid=Fantom%2DXR

Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

I just got an update from Music123 by email stating that the Fantom X is now supposed to be in stock by 04-03-2004. So the timeline has been pushed back a couple weeks from the original 03-20-2004.

The Rack Mount version's cost is: $1,345.95
It is available at zZounds.com and is expected to be in by 03-30-04. That is 11 days from now so we'll see. It's arrival may be shoved back to a later date also as ALL these 'in stock' dates are tenative that Roland has given these different online retailers. Roland may be giving these earlier dates to tantalize buyers into anticipating this supposed Monster Keyboard's release. It's working but if it's delayed too long people will lose interest IMO and Roland will have to work that much harder to try and regain people's interest and confidence knowing that potential customers get frustrated with Companies that promise something and then don't make good on it. A good example is Korg's PA80. People waited what seemed like forever for the PA80 to hit the streets from the time Korg announced its release. Yamaha has similar problems delivering products on time on the dates promised. The Mo ES was an exception. I think Mike Martin had a lot to do with that which shows Yamaha is trying to turn that bad statistic around. Of course Mike Martin is just the overseer of Workstations I believe. I haven't the foggiest of who's in charge of Marketing for Yamaha's Arrangers.

The PSR 3000 will be the next test for Yamaha to deliver when promised. We can only hope and pray, right?

Best regards,
Mike

What I get is that they are supposed to hit the stores in about a week. Roland has asked/demanded that they hit all stores at the same time.
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

I got 2 fantom X 76 key models today and 1 88 key model. I love the color display and the interface is a breeze to work with. The new 88 key Ultra Piano voice is great. There are 704 samples in this piano! I only had time to spend an hour with it but I will play with it more tomorrow.


------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

There is a thing I haven't fully understood from the specs I have read on the Roland site: they say that the Fantom has 64 Mb of ROM waveforms, and they say that the acoustic piano has been sampled note by note and each note has 4 samples, so I wonder: how much of these 64 Mb does that acoustic piano take up? And how many Mb are left for ALL the other waveforms? Not much, I am afraid...

George will give us a good review of this board. Please also tell us if the sounds are very different from its cousin the V Synth ? I wonder how the alto,tenor, and other saxes sound...theres no demo on the net.

FANTOM X
The Standard By Which All Other
Workstations Are Measured.

Expressive New Sounds Abound ..........................................................................
When Roland engineers developed the Fantom-X Series, they
wanted to fully exploit the potential of the new chip. That’s why
each keyboard comes with a brand new 128MB wave ROM
loaded with quality-focused sounds like vivid new string sections,
expressive and fat-sounding drums, rich nylon string guitars and
an amazing 88-key split acoustic piano, which uses individual
stereo multi-samples for each key and every velocity stage.
Would you believe there are over 700 samples used in this single
Patch? Many of the instruments were recorded in world-class
studios using vintage tube microphones with the highest quality
preamps and converters, and were mixed by respected studio
engineer/producer Dan Blessinger (Martinsound)—resulting in a
level of quality and musicality rivaled by few.


Complete Studio Effects and Mastering Tools ..........................................................................
Onboard effects include separate reverb and chorus processors,
plus three multi-effects processors loaded with sound sculpting
tools ideal for creative sampling. These include algorithms like
COSM® Guitar Amp Modeling, Lo-Fi processing, tempo-synced
delay, Slicer, Isolator, multiple effects chains and more. (In
Performance mode, all three MFX can be configured for full parallel
or complete serial use—or any combination in between.) When
you’re ready to mix down, simply switch on the dedicated Mastering
processor with multi-band compression for tight, punchy mixes.

The Only Workstations with Skip Back Sampling
and a Dynamic Pad Bank....................
First introduced on the Fantom-S, Roland’s Skip Back Sampling
has become popular with musicians for its ability to instantly
retrieve a performance and turn it into a sample. With Skip Back
Sampling, your ideas never get lost because the sampler is
constantly recording every note you play—be it on the keyboard
or Dynamic Pad Bank—while keeping the musical bars in tact.
Speaking of which, these 16 velocity- and aftertouch-sensitive
pads now sport twice the polyphony and an improved feel for
even more natural drum programming and sample triggering.

Get Connected with USB ..........................................................................
The onboard USB port serves two functions: First, it can be used
as a USB-MIDI interface, eliminating the need for an external
MIDI interface. Second, it can be used to import and export
audio in .WAV/AIFF format. Now it’s easy to bring in samples
from your computer and use them in a sequence. Likewise, you
can quickly mix
down your song, resample
it in stereo,
and then transfer
the file to a computer
for CD-burning.

A True Audio/MIDI Workstation ..........................................................................
Whether sequencing MIDI tracks, triggering samples from the
Dynamic Pad Bank, or even recording audio directly to RAM, the
Fantom-X Series makes putting it all together a seamless
process. Lay down a drum track by combining the internal drum
sounds with loops, which can automatically sync to tempo via
realtime timestretch. Then record some keyboard parts as MIDI
and finish your song by tracking a guitar or vocal as audio. The
high-resolution sequencer boasts up to 400,000-note capacity
and supports Standard MIDI File (SMF) import and export, making
the Fantom-X by far the best workstation in history.

V-LINK: The Future of Performance ..........................................................................
The Fantom-X Series is not only a great choice for studio
musicians, but also for live performers. Using Roland’s V-LINK
technology, musicians can trigger and manipulate video clips
when connected to an Edirol video editor like the DV-7PR.
Imagine being able to instantly trigger clips from the Dynamic
Pad Bank, or create transitions and effects using the pitch
bender and knobs. It’s a live performer’s dream!

Dazzling Color LCD Screen ..........................................................................
The Fantom-X Series is the first line of
workstation keyboards with a color
LCD screen. And once you’ve seen this
display’s smart, color-coded screens,
you’ll never want to go back! With all
the menus and screens in color, navigating
the Fantom-X becomes that
much more a pleasure. Even the
bitmap images appear more lifelike,
adding to the overall experience.


POWERED BY ROLANDS GROUNDBREAKING CHIP

The new Fantom-X Series comes in a choice of three keyboards,
but they all have one thing in common: Roland’s new sound
generator chip. This chip is Roland’s most powerful to date, and
it not only makes it possible to play expressive 4-tone Patches
with 128-voice polyphony, but it also raises the Fantom-X Series’
waveform capacity to approximately 1GB when fully expanded—
far more memory than any other musical instrument on the market.
What’s more, the internal wave ROM has been doubled with
quality-focused sounds that will please even the most jaded player.


SAMPLER OR DIGITAL RECORDER ? ..........................................................................
Thanks to the power afforded by the new sound generator chip,
you get both. That’s because the Fantom-X is the first workstation
keyboard capable of handling audio on the level of a digital
recorder. This means you can record either short samples for
playback on the keyboard, or long, linear takes similar to a digital
recorder. And with room for up to 544MB of sample RAM, there’s
plenty of recording time available. Samples can be slaved to
tempo with realtime timestretching and edited using powerful
tools like Wave Edit and Chop. Users are free to load samples in
.WAV and AIFF formats and back up data to convenient PC cards with up to 1GB capacity.

Dedicated Piano Button ..........................................................................
Choose the Fantom-X8 model, and you’ll get an 88-note
Progressive Hammer-Action Keyboard designed to capture the feel
of a fine concert grand. It’s the perfect way to play the amazing
new 88-key split piano Patch, which can be instantly called up by
pressing the Fantom-X Series’ dedicated Piano button. Of
course, this button can be reprogrammed to call up a different
Patch or Performance in any order, so it’s almost like having an
extra Favorite Sounds button. Regardless of which model you
choose, you’ll find nothing else compares to the new Fantom-X.


* 128-voice workstations with 61-note
keyboard (Fantom-X6), 76-note keyboard
(Fantom-X7), or 88-note (Fantom-X8)
Progressive Hammer-Action Keyboard

* Seamless integration of audio and MIDI
using gorgeous new ROM waves and
sampling with realtime timestretch capability

* 128MB wave ROM includes quality-focused
sounds like 88-key split piano and more

* 32MB sample RAM expandable to 544MB
with optional DIMMs

* New color LCD screen—a first in
a workstation keyboard!

* Innovative features like Skip Back Sampling,Dynamic Pad Bank and V-LINK*

* 3 MFX processors, plus dedicated reverb,
chorus and mastering processor

* USB port for MIDI, .WAV/AIFF file exchange
and 4x SRX expansion

* PC card slot for backing up samples and
data with up to 1GB capacity

* 4 Line outputs (2 stereo or 4 mono), stereo Line input and 24-bit S/PDIF I/O

*****************************************

Fantom-X6/X7/X8 Specifications

* Keyboard [X6] 61 keys (with velocity and channel aftertouch), [X7] 76 keys (with
velocity and channel aftertouch), [X8] 88 keys (Progressive Hammer Action
Mechanism and channel aftertouch) [Sound Generator Section]

* Maximum Polyphony 128 voices (shared with the sampling section) n Parts 16 parts nWave
Memory 128 MB (16-bit linear equivalent)

*Waveforms 1,436

* Preset Memory Patches: 1,024 + 256 (GM2), Rhythm Sets: 40 + 9 (GM2), Performances: 64

* User Memory Patches: 256, Rhythm Sets: 32, Performances: 64 n Card Memory (PC
card) Patches: 256, Rhythm Sets: 32, Performances: 64

* Effects Multi-Effects: 3 systems, 78 types, Chorus: 3 types, Reverb: 5 types, Input Effects: 6 types,
Mastering Effects: 3-band compressor [Sampling Section]

* Data Format 16-bit linear (File Type: .WAV/.AIFF)

* Sampling Frequency 44.1 kHz (fixed)

* Maximum Sampling Time Standard: 32 MB (mono: 360 sec. approx., stereo:
180 sec. approx.), Maximum (expanded with DIMM): 544 MB (mono: 102 min.
approx., stereo: 51 min. approx.)

* Number of Samples User memory: 2,000
(maximum total approximately 32 MB), Card memory: 7,000 (PC card) [Sequencer
Section]

* Tracks Phrase tracks (16 MIDI channels per track): 16, Pattern track
(16 MIDI channels per track): 1, Tempo track: 1, Beat track: 1 * The Pattern Track
can hold up to 100 patterns.

* Resolution 480 TPQN

* Tempo 5—300

* Note Capacity approx. 400,000 notes

* Song Length 9,998 measures

* Recording Method Realtime recording, Step recording
[Others]

* Arpeggiator Preset: 128,
User: 128

* Rhythm Pattern Preset: 256 (32 groups), User: 256 (32 groups)

* Chord Memory Preset: 64, User: 64

* Display Graphic 320 x 240 dots backlit
LCD (Color)

* Pads 16 pads, Velocity and Aftertouch sensitive n Controllers Pitch
Bend/Modulation Lever, Control Knob x 4, Assignable Switch x 2, D Beam Controller

* Connectors Headphones Jack, A (MIX) Output Jacks (L/MONO, R): 1/4 inch TRS
phone type, B Output Jacks (L, R): 1/4 inch phone type, Input Jacks (L/MONO/MIC,
R): 1/4 inch phone type, Hold Pedal Jack (Half Pedal recognition), Control Pedal
Jack (assignable), MIDI Connectors (IN, OUT, THRU), USB Connector (supports file
transfer (mass storage class) and MIDI), Digital Audio Interface (COAXIAL
INPUT/OUTPUT), AC Inlet

* Expansion Slots [Expansion of waveforms and patchs
for the internal sound generator] SRX expansion boards: 4 slots, [Expansion of
sampling memory] DIMM: 1 slot (supports 128 MB, 256 MB, 512 MB (3.3 V))
n External Storage Device PC card: 1 slot (supports SmartMedia and
CompactFlash using a PC card adapter)

* Power Supply AC 117 V, AC 230 V, AC
240 V (50/60 Hz), AC 220 V (60 Hz)

* Dimensions [X6] 1050 (W) x 358 (D) x 125
(H) mm / 41-3/8 (W) x 14-1/8 (D) x 4-15/16 (H) inches, [X7] 1262 (W) x 358 (D) x 125
(H) mm / 49-11/16 (W) x 14-1/8 (D) x 4-15/16 (H) inches, [X8] 1408 (W) x 455 (D) x
165 (H) mm / 55-7/16 (W) x 17-15/16 (D) x 6-1/2 (H) inches nWeight [X6] 12.5 kg
/ 27 lbs 9 oz, [X7] 14.5 kg / 32 lbs, [X8] 29.5 kg / 65 lbs 1 oz

* Accessories
Handbook, Owner's Manual, Sound/Parameter List, Sample Data (Audio) CD, CDROM
(Editor, USB MIDI driver), Sticker, Power Cord

* Options Wave Expansion
Board: SRX Series, Keyboard Stand: [X6] [X7] KS-12 / [X8] KS-17, Pedal Switch: DP
Series, Foot Switch: BOSS FS-5U, Expression Pedal: EV-5

* The specifications are subject to change without notice.

The rule is this simple for me. Specs are good.. as a reference point. I'll decide if I want it based on what it does when it's in my hands though.

When I look seriously at a new board, it gets a good workout with an eye towards overall sounds, overall features, how the OS will work, key feel, polyphony ( in my hands, not based on specs ), and a few other things.

I don't pay a whole lot of attention to the specs when I'm testing a particular board, other than as a reference point when looking at the individual features.

In the past two editions of the Fantom, when I came across some of the keyboard based sounds, it pretty much ended right there. I didn't like the Rhodes, Organ, or wurli sounds much at all when I compared them to the Motif series. I'm hoping that this time will be different, because the OS seemed very logical vs the Motif.

AJ

I agree, a very nice sounding grand piano. I didn't think it sounded that bad in mono either. At least the frequency extremes are still there (doesn't sound thin).

But oh that stereo sample is sounding real nice on the Altec Lansing's here!

Fantom Stereo Grand Piano

Fantom Piano Left

Fantom Piano Right

Fantom Piano Summed to Mono

mike

Still....

compare it with softsampler libraries like : http://www.sampletekk.com/wgresource.php?PHPSESSID=649e62ee2e0d4671176fd1e78baa75a2

no comparison...

(I know, I know..)

I agree about the comparisons, because today's hardware boards just don't have the sample rom capabilities of a soft synth. I have embraced soft synth technology and use it a lot, but I still like having one good workstation available for live play and for studio work as well. Sometimes using soft stuff, especially when one wants to do something instantly and "on the fly", can be a little more complicated than I like. Still, nothing currently available in hardware ( without having the actual boards they emulate ) compares sound wise to some of my favorite soft synths, such as the new Mini Moog V from Arturia and the B4 from NI for example.

Currently, my workstation is the Motif ES. It has great sounds ( for me ), but it isn't very user friendly in some areas. I'd miss a few things from it, like the VL acoustic modeling plug in and the way the user arps are set up ( very easy to make my own ), but I can get around the first one if I use my Windows ME computer and my SY-xg100 synth module, as it includes the VL acoustic softsynth, but does not work on XP.

The arps are less important, since I often prefer making my own stuff anyway. The tool that has become invaluable here is Fruity Loops studio. At first I thought of it as merely a glorifed drum machine that was best for techno and synth based music, but it really is much more than that.

So, that leaves me free to part with the ES if I choose to and possibly get the 'X' if I like it better. The Triton Extreme might also be a very good choice for me, as it appears ( atr least from the demo I heard ) that korg has put more effort into some of it's acoustic sounds. I am looking forward to the release of both of these boards.

AJ