One of the things we all struggle with is having to use the same 1 or 2 Intros for different songs that use the same style. The other problem is playing the rest of the song at the same professional level as the Intro. Here is one solution that could easily be implemented by the manufacturer at very little cost and a minor OS modification. It would essentially be a quick and dirty style maker using a "pick & click" from a "pool" of factory (read professionally produced) Intros and Endings, let's say 5-10 per style; append them to existing Variations, and save as a new (or renamed) style. For the most part, the Variations are okay, as chord changes and what you're playing with the right hand creates enough "variation" between songs. Obviously, tempo changes could also be saved with the "new" style for even more variation. Hope this isn't confusing but it sounds like such an easy thing to implement and would solve this age-old problem with arrangers. In fact, I'm sure it could be done right now if we only had that pool of factory-produced Intros and Endings. What do you think?

chas

I think you have a good idea in theory...that probably will never aspire......most arrangers are able to record your own style intros any way you like its a fature not many utilize aside from actually just playing live intros in real time ....I do it all the time.....I also remember Roland G70 offers FOUR different intros with one of them totaly customizable ? http://sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2020

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 06-06-2006).]

That sounds like a great idea. Thank goodness a product already exists that has that ability.

Dave

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Wm. David McMahan
Nat'l Product and Support Manager
Generalmusic USA
GEM Community Forums

Although my wife assumes that I am, I am not a mind-reader. Could you please elaborate.

Thanks,

chas

Hi Chas,

Thought you would never ask.

The Genesys has the ability to copy any phrase of a given style, i.e. any of the four Intro's, four Ending's, four Fill's and four Variations to any of the 64 User Style locations. Therefore you can pick and choose any of the phrases mentioned from any of the 256 internal styles and create new custom styles.

Of course the result depends on selecting phrases from various styles that will match up style-wise. Then again you might want to do a tune like Green Dolphin Street where the 'A' section is latin and the 'B' section is swing so pulling phrases from two entirely different style feels would be very appropriate. The advantage in that example is one style could take care of the entire song instead of have to select between a bossa nova and a swing style in the middle of the song.

If you want to know more, I will elaborate.

Best Regards,

Dave


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Wm. David McMahan
Nat'l Product and Support Manager
Generalmusic USA
GEM Community Forums

Hi Chas,
which keyboard do you have?
Some do have functions where you can copy style phrases ( Bass, drums ,strings etc )& mix n match to create new style parts, but phrases are better suited to variations and fills, because a lot of intro's & endings have chord progressions.
Some keyboards allow you to copy complete style parts like an intro, ending , fills variations etc. & you can mix n match that way.

My Ketron sd1 has this copy function.

Yamaha's I think call it Style Assembly. and if you're actually a psr owner, OMB software could be used for this function ie you can save phrases from style parts and import them into existing styles or create completely new ones.
You could even put together a library of intro's , endings etc etc that you could import into different styles.

Not quite as versatile as what you're suggesting, but the copy function does come in handy.

best wishes

Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by cgiles:
[b]

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 06-06-2006).]

Hi Rikki, I have a number of keyboards but as to arrangers, I have a Tyros 2 and a PA1X Pro. I wanted to check the op. manual before I responded to you. The Tyros 2 does indeed have a style assembly process but what it does is somewhat different from what I had in mind....plus, it's a little cumbersome. Apparently the GeneralMusic instrument comes closest and seems (from Dave's desciption) to be the the most flexible of the current crop of arrangers in terms of style creation (or shall we say, re-assembly). However, what is missing is the pool of dedicated (style-specific) Intros, Fills, and Endings, to choose from. The proceedure, as I envision it, would be to:
1) choose a (factory) style
2) choose an Intro 1(or 2 or 3) from a pool of Intros created specifically for that style
3) repeat for Intro 2, Fills, and Endings
4) change tempo if needed
5) save as "new" style

As with the GeneralMusic system, one should also be able to mix and match components from different styles to accomodate tunes such as Green Dolphin Street, as in Dave's example.

Again, we are not talking so much about creating new styles here as we are about keeping existing styles from seeming repetitive as we move from song to song during the course of a gig. The main focus here is to make it very, very, very easy to do.

Peace,
chas

Hi Chas,
no doubt your idea would be a good one,but maybe not in manufacturers best interests.
If we have too many options for creating "top quality styles" ourselves, there may not be the burning desire to upgrade our keyboard each time they bring out a new model. haa haa
Probably just me, but the first thing I used to do, was go thru was the intro's & endings. I was under the misguided notion that because a style had new intro's, they must have created some brand new styles. Found out not neccasarily the case, sometimes it was just the same old style with new intro's & endings and maybe some updated voices. I found with the Technics over the years the majority of styles were carried forward to the next model, & they'd include a few new ones. At least one did have the option of buying extra style disks, and there was a fairly large collection available thru a 3rd party source..

I sometimes just create my own. Use a fade in, or use a chord progression to match the tune I want to play. Must admit I get sick of the same 3 intro's for every song I want to play using that particular style.

best wishes
rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by cgiles:
[b]

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 06-07-2006).]

Hi Chas,

Several things to consider; Think about most songs of any style, country, swing, latin, etc. and you will find that for the most part the rhythm section is not changing all that much in the feel they are playing, just in the chords they are playing that relate to a particular song. Forget the horn stabs, string lines and so forth and think only about the rhythm section. It's the chord pattern that makes the song. A mistake many style creators make is making the styles to busy. Yes that sells product on the sales floor, and can make an amateur sound like they really know what they are doing, but in the long run all that extra flittering around just makes for a very cluttered sound.

A very cool idea for an intro is to have a four bar (or whatever length you desire) based on just one chord. This way you 'the player' can decide what chord progression to use for the intro to a given song. This can also work for an ending.

I do understand what you are describing and I like the idea. But then again, you would still be selecting from a number of pre-designed style phrases that you would eventually become so familiar with that you would find yourself desiring another as of yet unavailable feature. If you put a little effort into learning the features that already exist and creating you own truly unique styles, I'll bet that you would end up happier than if there was such a feature as you described.

Just some thoughts to be taken with a grain or two of salt.

Best Regards,

Dave


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Wm. David McMahan
Nat'l Product and Support Manager
Generalmusic USA
GEM Community Forums

[This message has been edited by WDMcM (edited 06-07-2006).]

[This message has been edited by WDMcM (edited 06-07-2006).]

Hi Dave,
don't know whether I've misread, but do you mean you can copy ie a variation phrase to an intro?
My sd can copy a variation phrase to a variation or an intro phrase to an intro etc

Unfortunately i don't know anything about the genesys, I don't think we have an Aussie dealership??

best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by WDMcM:
[B]

The Genesys has the ability to copy any phrase of a given style, i.e. any of the four Intro's, four Ending's, four Fill's and four Variations to any of the 64 User Style locations. Therefore you can pick and choose any of the phrases mentioned from any of the 256 internal styles and create new custom styles.