Hi Frank
I'm back on track.
Finally received my Hypercanvas software. Now the fun begins tweaking my OMB styles to work with it. I'm not overly impressed with the piano sound, but I've got a couple of soundfont piano's that are fairly small ( only about 10mb's) and to me they sound better than the Hypercanvas one, and I'll incorporate them for the more piano dominated styles.

The Forte Ensemble really is an amazing piece of software. Hadn't realized I could mix n match the soft synths ie I have the Hypercanvas play midi channels 10,11,13,14 15 & 16 ( style parts), and have my soft synth play channel 12 ( which I'm going to set aside for piano style tracks).

Not only do I get to pick the sounds I want, but I'm also modifying styles to suit my needs ( with the help of OMB software).

You mentioned a while back something about Sonar software and the TTS-1 ( softsynth ).
Just wondering if you got it , and what you think of it.

best wishes
Rikki


[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 10-11-2004).]

Rikki, which piano on Hyper Canvas[Stereo piano1?]??
I like the pianos, try reducing the reverb to around 40..

Hi Fran,
I'll give that a try.

Sorry, I'm just a big fan of Yamaha piano sounds, so it's probably what my ears are used to. The soundfonts are sort of closer to that type of sound.

On the whole though, I'm pretty happy with it.

Are you using your's with OMB or just with midifiles?

Rikki, good to see you back here and the success you are enjoying with Hyper Canvas and forte. As you know I am beta testing forte version 1.5 with many new features but still with the focus on live performances vs studio work although it will work well in both environments.

It is interesting you ask about Sonar software and the TTS-1 today. I just got the Cakewalk notice today that my upgrade is on its way. As soon as I have it I will let you know what I think. My guess is it should be good Roland quality (sound, latency, reliability).

As you get to know forte you will discover it's many powerful features. The way you are using it is just one example. You can apply effects (audio & midi) of your choice, instruments of your choice, synths of your choice and so on. You can set up all the settings of these various devices as scenes and send program changes from your keyboard for complete setup changes in forte on the fly. Rikki you just can't lose.

Plus you can invest in the quality that satisfies your needs from modest to the best money can buy. Rikki you are just plain lucky!!!


[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 10-11-2004).]

Hi Frank,
that sounds interesting ( forte 1.5).

Good, it will be intersting to know what you think of the TTS-1. I saw a picture of it on the website. It looks pretty similar to the Hypercanvas.

I ended up getting a great little freebie sequencer called Music Creator 2002. It was included with my Hypercanvas as a bonus. I've never owned a Cakewalk sequencer before.

best wishes
Rikki
p.s. Fran,
I ended up trying the stereo piano as you suggested, it definetely sounds nicer than the one I'd been using.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:
[B]Rikki, good to see you back here and the success you are enjoying with Hyper Canvas and forte. As you know I am beta testing forte version 1.5 with many new features but still with the focus on live performances vs studio work although it will work well in both environments.

It is interesting you ask about Sonar software and the TTS-1 today. I just got the Cakewalk notice today that my upgrade is on its way. As soon as I have it I will let you know what I think. My guess is it should be good Roland quality (sound, latency, reliability).

Rikki, I just got the Cakewalk Sonar (Roland) TTS-1 softsynth and gave it a quick run through on forte with Live - Styler. It sounds very good to me - I like Roland sounds. However, it will require tweaking of the drums, drum channels, etc. to optomize the sound for Yamaha Styles. On the plus side, the TTS-1 does respond to the style midi messages concerning effects like reverb, chorus, pan, etc. One less thing to worry about - just a need to optimize for your sound system.

I checked the installation folder and from as near as I can gather the size of the wavetable is 13.5 mb or about half that of Roland's HQ Hyper Canvas. It looks much like the Hyper Canvas.

I will take a more indepth look and report my findings. I just wanted to let you know that I got it and that it works!!!

Hi Frank,
what software are you planning to use for your tweaking etc ?

Basically why I decided to go for the Hypercanvas as my style basis rather than the fonts. The fact the the styles all will need a certain amount of tweaking etc .
With the soundfonts the temptation for me is always there to keep upgrading individual sounds, which is great for main melody sounds, but could cause chaos within the styles, I could imagine I'd be forever tweaking them.

Beauty of the softsynth sound system for me is, there's no need for me to upgrade, or if I do, I can redo my styles slowly. Better still, I don't have to sell another piece of hardware if I do upgrade. Gone are the days when I had 5 or 6 sound modules midied together, now it all fits in my laptop and maybe one day a second harddrive.

Is your TTS-1 General Midi2 ?

I also like the Edirol Super Quartet. It only has piano's , guitars , bass & drums.

The Edirol Orchestral one interested me also, but I haven't managed to find a demo version of it.

I have a bit of a bizzare question for you.
If I actually had an inexpensive psr keyboard to play the actual style, I midi it to my laptop, I assume I can use the laptop and a softsynth as a sound module?
ie I used to midi my roland e86 to my roland u220 sound module. The e86 played the style, but u220 produced the sound.

What I'm getting at is, if the computers not actually playing the style but only acting as a sound module, would I still need a second hard drive for the bigger samplers like giga etc ie the computers memory is not being taxed by having to run
omb/livestyler or a sequencer, it's only supplying the sound. Or doesn't it work that way?


best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:
[B]However, it will require tweaking of the drums, drum channels, etc. to optomize the sound for Yamaha Styles.

I checked the installation folder and from as near as I can gather the size of the wavetable is 13.5 mb or about half that of Roland's HQ Hyper Canvas.

Rikki, you can do anything you want to do including using your PSR to play the style and the laptop/synth as your sound source.

And yes you would need a 2nd hard drive if you were going to use very high quality samples as your sound source, e.g., Scarbee 73' Rhodes Piano. The reason is that the samples are being streamed in real time from the hard drive (low latency & no interruptions). This allows you to play a 2.5 GB instrument with only a very small portion of it resident in the computers memory.

The actual playing of the style takes very few computer resources. It is the sound & effect creation that takes all the work.

For tweaking my styles to fit in with the GM standard I use any one or combination of the following:

CASMEdit/Cakewalk
OMB
Midi Player
StyleManger/Updater

I like using CasmEdit and Cakewalk for the midi part tweaking of the style. This lets me get at all aspects of the style (CASM & Midi). In Cakewalk (Instrument Definition File) I can quickly see the instruments that are being used, e.g., Drums, etc. So if the Yamaha Tyros style uses a LiveStandard drum kit in bank 127 and say program number 01 then I can change this to bank 128 and program number 01 (GM Standard). Also with Roland and others you will find that they only respond to drum messages in say channel 10. So if there are drums in channel 9 you would need to assign the appropriate drums or merge it to channel 10. Etc. Etc. It is not that bad once you get a number of styles setup for your system. After it is just a matter of adding new ones as you can use them.

TTS-1 is General Midi2.

And oh Rikki you just can't lose!!!

Just give up on the PSRs, Korgs, Rolands and others. Just buy a dumb controller keyboard and start a new life - exciting - vibrant - creative - ever changing - anything else?

Rikki, now if you could only get Fran to change his ways.

This would be very exciting. It would cause stress and spook his friends - DNJ, UD, Travelin'Easy and others. This could alter the very core of the arranger business.

I could then crawl away and rest in peace.

Rikki, what do you think of the Sonic Implants Soundfont GM/GS 24mb Wavetable? I use it sometimes and like the sound of it with Yamaha styles.

I must say I still like my modified version of sYnerGi GS Soundfont wavetable best of all!!! The sampled Yamaha acoustic pianos (from GM500) sound so good.

Rikki just do what you think is right and pay little attention to my ranting and raving!!!

[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 10-13-2004).]

Hi Frank,
oh well, maybe one day I will get that 2nd drive. I thought it was worth asking the question, even though I think deepdown I knew the answer.

For style tweaking , I've also used the ones you mentioned except for casm edit, must check that one out now that I've got a cakewalk sequencer.

I thought maybe the TTS-1 may have only been gm, which may have meant the difference in between it and hypercanvas.

As forgetting a dumb controller, I gave poor starkeeper a really long winded explanation on why http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/009093.html
I won't put any poor members who might happen to read this thru it a second time
( haahaa)

best wishes
Rikki

Hi Frank,
I think Fran may just be a tad more difficult to convince,

For me it's just a hobby that I've loved over the last 25 years. I've had more piano's, synths, sound modules, samplers , workstations & arrangers than I care to remember.

I like the software based idea because it's new & interesting.

Probably not for everyone, yet. haahaa

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:
[B]Rikki, now if you could only get Fran to change his ways.

Rikki, I am so sad that you are not doing it My Way.

Rikki, I am so happy that you are doing it your way and it works!!!

Rikki, you just can't lose......

Hello Folks,
This is a very interesting subject. In the last 2 weeks or so I have been playing around with sound fonts using OMB, Vienna, and recently Sound Font Librarian. I am very impressed with what can be done. Having used SF for GM playback for a long time thru a SB Live! Value I never even guessed how flexible the SF format was. I REALLY like the way I can "rip" sounds from GM banks and use them, along with single SF's, to create a "home bank" to use with OMB. My only problem is I don't have enough memory in my system (384mb)to use the BIG SF's. But adding memory looks like a cheaper way to get great sounds than buying another mod or board.
I will be watching for more post's about this with great interest...

Frank,
I was wondering what your final opinion
for SynthFont was regarding playing PSR
styles correctly.

Also, have you tried Halion2 VST, and if so,
does it work as well as LiveSynthPro for
styles.

Thanks for your valuable input.

Vquestor, I have to admit I have been falling short of promises and expectations. All I can say is I can't get SynthFont to work properly on my system (Doesn't call up the drums at all). I have not done a great deal of trouble shooting to find out why that is. I still have not acquired Halion - but I will - provided I do not need a dongle for piracy protection. As soon as, I have some success with these I will let you know.


[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 11-08-2004).]

Thanks Frank. Sorry for all the trouble, but your expertise is much appreciated. I guess we can cross Synthfont off the list.

Are the latest versions of "Vsampler" and "SFZ/+" not working well with the style playing either?

Well if not, we will look forward to your evaluation of Halion2.

BTW, is there such a thing as a DXi to VST
wrapper that would allow using LiveSynthPro
in cubase?

Vquestor, it may to early to give up entirely on SynthFont but like all the others it suffers from strict adherence to the GM standard. This means conversion of the Yamaha Styles/midis from XG to GM. This is not as difficult today given OMB, M. Bedesem's programs and other software alternatives. This would also be required for sfz+ and VSampler. In the case of SynthFont I could not get the drums to work at all. It wouldn't even play the piano instead of the drums - it did nothing for the drums. While I have not tested Halion I think it two will have trouble with Yamaha drums. This is life.

It is for all these reasons that I still use LiveSynth Pro & sYnerGi GS. Sounds good - works good - minimizes effort. The advantage of Halion would be that I could use one professional class soft synth to do everything (lead/melody voices & accompaniment).

I know of no conversion program for DXi to VSTi.