You know Uncle Dave, that is really a good question and think it merits some time devoted to researching the reason. Just to refresh our memories I will give Dave's quandary, Quote: “I'm having problems adjusting to the smaller key width on the Yamaha keyboards. (Tyros is the SAME as the 2100 !) My hands want to go to the correct position, but the PSR won't let 'em ! Grrrr ! Why on earth did they shrink these keys ????”.

Well Unc I have undertaken the task of pondering your question and giving it my best. Seems nobody else wants to try their hand at this difficult task so old Doug will take a stab at your query. Every manufacture wants to sell all the product they can. Lets start with this angle. With this in mind comes the question, to who? They have a fancy name for this. Market targeting! Thinking process goes like this. First: large market. Second: plenty of disposable money. Third: Who will buy cheaply made stuff to maximize profit? These three are the nucleus or the most important of the points in the decision of, to who? Kids, yes, kids. Young folks. Parents that will buy them anything they want. Immature minds. Easily persuaded people that can be influenced by their peers. Now you have one reason. Kids have smaller hands. Younger people are more body conscience and have thinner everything including fingers. Thus, shrunk keys, and poorer construction all around. Greater profit. Not bad! Now this could very well account for smaller keys but there are other things that have nothing to do with the first cause of the keys feeling smaller. As you say, “My hands want to go to the correct position, but the PSR won't let 'em ! Grrrr “! Look at it this way Dave. Others have no problem with this, the PSR lets them, with no problem. So let’s think about this. As we become Uncles’ and Grandpas’ we get thicker and thicker. Our waists get thicker, our arms get thicker, our buts’ get thicker, everything gets thicker, even our heads and what’s inside of them sometimes gets thicker. Now it follows that our fingers also get thicker therefore giving an illusion that the keys must be shrinking. Kind of the same way we sometimes think of our pants and shirts. Told Ruthie awhile back she is using too hot of water to wash my stuff in, your shrinking my stuff. She told me to go to you know where. She said my zippers were exploding and my buttons were popping off cause I was getting thicker! Ruthie is always tactful and considers my feelings so she never says I might be getting fat. I like that girl. So Dave let me put it this way. You and your fingers just might be outgrowing a keyboard that is targeted for the younger folks. Don’t want to take up any more space here so I’ll give others a chance to chime in why Uncle Dave’s fingers no longer fit the PSR’s. Don’t be afraid, Dave is good natured, I hope!

Grandpa Doug

Here's my theory Grandpa Doug. Yamaha's Keyboards are designed and produced in Japan. The majority of Japanese are of fairly small stature and likewise in girth. Okay, so you have millions of these 'thin' Japanese and of course they ARE the working force there in Japan. No whities, no blackies, no brownies, just these 'thin' Japanese everywhere. Now these Japanese make all kinds of great products, ie., Cars, Keyboards, Motorcycles, etc. But guess what? 99% of the Cars they make are small. The Motorcycles are again - a 'small' piece of equipment relatively speaking. And their Keyboard Keys are once again 'small' in comparison to some other Manufacturers, eg., Korg, etc. Now you may say - "Well isn't Korg a Japanese company?" Yes, but their Keyboards are made in Italy. At least their Arrangers are. And have you seen some of those Italian Opera singers? You guessed it, there is nothing small about them. Big, large, full bodied people - hands included. So Korg's Arranger Keyboard Designers are living large in Italy and because of it they give their Keyboard Keys an extra 2mm or so width to accomodate the "General" world population - which the vast majority are over 5' tall and weigh over 90 lbs.

I keep buggin' Yammie to give us larger Keys and it appears my pleas are falling on deaf ears. Small deaf ears at that.

PS: No offense intended to the Japanese people. But facts are facts.

Best regards,
Mike

[This message has been edited by Idatrod (edited 09-18-2003).]

Doug,
As always, your reply was most enjoyable, but there is a huge difference between "thinking" that the keys are shrinking, and actually measuring them. The keys are absolutly, physically smaller (width-wise) than a traditional piano or synth key. Maybe your points about kids is part of their madness, but this is not a question of "my aging hands". Yamaha made the keys smaller, so my original question stands:
WHY?

Mike, I like your full bodied approach. Just like a goot big stein of old German Beer, so to speak. Very, very good. Congrats!!! Must be other well thought out theories lurking out there. Dave must be proud of us helping him out like this.

Grandpa Doug

Dave, I’m sure you must think Mike must be on to something. Your right. Maybe I missed a bit on my theory of the progression of time, but at least you got to admit I gave it a try.

Grandpa Doug, another post and another day older.

Doug was right about 1 thing-it is a marketing ploy. Smaller keys means less material less material means lower costs. Since the 2100 is coming in at the same pricepoint as the 2000 Yamaha can have a bigger margin on each piece sold. Remember 2 things: the only way to increase your margin per piece is to increase the selling price, or decrease the costs. Yamaha chose to decrease the costs, and cut corners when, and wherever possible. Also, no manufacturer will ever produce the perfect product that lasts forever-in time it would put themselves out of business. I get Consumer Reports mag, and every month there is a story about shrinking consumer good products, or packaging. It is not very noticable on the product unless your read the fine print, or in your case get out a ruler and measure. But business is just that-they aren't going to loose money. If you want bigger keys, and Yamaha incorporates them into their next product release they will be probably more fragile and break easier, or maybe a more important feature will be left off. No manufacturer will ever eat production costs. They will either pass them on to customers via price increases, or cut corners somewhere else on the product.

Why? Because Yamaha's been doing this for a long time, well over 100 years. There are more Yamaha pianos and other keyboards out there, than any other brand. Just a fact.
I did some measuring and some research.
Yamaha Pianos (acoustic and digital including all 88 note weighted actions) are 165mm to the octave (standard).
Yamaha organs and synthesizers are 160mm to the octave (standard).
The Yamaha E3 Organ, (the oldest instrument I could find to measure) circa 1969 has a keyboard that is 160mm to the octave.
The Yamaha synthesizer model CS80 (I sure this qualifies as a traditional synth)keyboard is 160mm to the octave.
The DX7 (a classic, if not traditional)keyboard is 160mm to the octave.
The Motif ES keyboard is 160mm to the octave.
The 9000pro keyboard is 160mm to the octave.
The Tyros keyboard is 160mm to the octave.
The PSR2000 keyboard is 160mm to the octave.
The PSR2100 keyboard is 160mm to the octave.
The PSR172 keyboard (currently our least ezpensive model) is 160mm to the octave.
Yamaha didn't invent this key size, but
Yamaha has remained true to this standard for over 30 years (probably a lot longer). It's not shrinking, and it's not changing.

------------------
Steve Deming
Assistant Manager
Customer Support Dept.
Pro Audio & Combo Division
Yamaha Corporation of America

Steve,

Thank you for contributing to the discussion. I have one question for you:

Other than the mega voices, are the samples on PSR2100 different from Tyros? Many are assuring me that they are different and that Tyros sounds are way better than 2100. Can you confirm that?

I would have bet the farm that the 9000pro had a wider stance than the tyros. There was no trouble adjusting to that one. Must be senility setting in!

uncle dave, grandpa doug is right,we are all concerned that as we get older our body shrinks,it starts at our hands,whats next,ha,ha ,mike