Ok, how many of you FULLY utilize drum fills when performing? Do you just hop from variation to variation when changing song sections (or worse yet, just stay on a single variation thru the entire tune) or do you trigger a drum fill lead in before each new song section & variation change?

Aside from the rare tune which requires only one simple style with no fills or drum variation changes at all, good drummers mix up the rhythms (variations) and include drum fills that lead into the NEXT section.

This being said, I'm curious just how you guys trigger drum fills and variation changes.

1) Do you utilize a foot controler pedal to trigger changes or manually press the fill button and/or variation buttons by hand?

2) At what point(s) in a song do you routinely trigger fills and/or variation changes?

3) Do you use the mulitpad drum assignments to add additional drum hits (cymbal crash, snare, etc) to even more of a live feeling?

4) On exactly WHAT beat of the last measure preceding the variation change do you try to trigger the fill to begin?

5) Any tricks to share re: drum fill/variation change arranger KB playing techniques?

Here's what I do: For casual performances, I just use my left (and sometimes right hand) to trigger the variation change/auto fill buttons. For songs that utilize reg memory, the fills automatically take place at every song section variation change (reg seq advance).When I utilize the MFC10 multi foot pedal controler, I have more flexibility to trigger fills at will, while my hands are playing the keyboard. Because of this, I can more easily add fills not at only the section changes, but sometimes at 4 bar or even 2 bar intervals in some circustances. There are even some places where I will just hold the fill button (pedal) down continously for a dramatic loop fill which can last 2 to 4 measures. This is especially useful for a dramatic section or buildup in a song. I also like to add a drum hit (crash) occasionally to add more spontaneity, but it gets difficult when you're trying to juggle everything else at the same time. It sure would be great if the Mulitpads could be triggered via foot pedal controler instead of only manually. I've suggested to Yamaha that they implement this in the dedicated foot control assignment or via midi activation via the MFC10. Ok, I'm interested now in hearing how you guys utilize the fills & variation changes in performance. Also, I usually attempt to trigger the drum fill on beat 2 of the previous measure before a variation change, especially when doing this with my hands, because I need to be playing the chord on beat 1. I then depress the damper pedal to hold that chord before reaching for the fill/variation button. Mastering these techniques both manually or by foot is a unique arranger playing specific technique that requires practice. Curious how others of you have mastered this.

Looking forward to getting some discussion going about different people's arranger keyboard 'PLAYING TECHNIQUES' etc. Hopefully we can use this opportunity to share arranger playing secrets as well.

Scott

If I tell you my secrets, I have to kill you.
Softly, of course, with my song.
Seriously, I don't really think about when to add the fills anymore. My hand just goes up there and hits 'em when it's supposed to.
I always use the left hand, never the right, never the feet, or nose (makes the buttons slick).
Maybe that's why I need a new keyboard--I'm too comfortable with the Yammy.
DonM

Don,

hmmm. I guess I'm going to change my mind and keep all MY secrets to MYSELF !

Actually I don't think about how or when I do these things either, at least not until I consiously decided to initiate this topic. Most of us seasoned players do all this subconciously, but I think it's good every once in a while to take a look and analylize what we've been doing all along (in our sleep) . Kinda provides a fresh perspective, and helps some of the newer arranger players out along the way too.

I personally don't think I need a NEW keyboard, but perhaps just a FRESH perspective playing the one I got, afterall 95% of the music should be coming from US, not the arranger. - Scott

Usually I use fills at the end of a verse or a chorus, to introduce the following part of the song, but this is not a strict rule; sometimes, like in Big Band styles, a fill is useful even in the middle of a section (especially the chorus) to recreate the feeling a real Big Band has; other times (like in my rendition of Wave) I didn't use any fills at all, because the style I used (SD1 Soft Bossa) has fills that IMO are way too emphasized for that kind of music (the break fill even uses timbales!); besides, I didn't want to distract the listener from the music flow. To think that for that song I was (friendly) criticized because I left the fills out!
An important issue, to me, is the right timing to trigger a fill and that depends on the keyboard you are using. I have seen that the 9000 pro is quite tolerant, from this point of view, while with the SD1 I have to press the fill button slightly before the end of the bar to trigger the fill in the following bar. The VA7 is yet another story, but I cannot say how many beats before the end of the bar I have to press the fill button: only experience can make make you perfect.

One of the most impressive parts of the tyros demo was when using the BeBop style, variation 4 (32 bars long!) plays several bars then goes into a full drum solo! Quite impressive! It would be nice if yamaha put more of these solo's into the break feature of the styles, as usually the break's are rather short and simple.

Simon


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________________________
Simon G.K. Williams
simon@svpworld.com
Creative Music & Multimedia
http://www.svpworld.com
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Simon,
I heard that style and I agree with you that it's impressive; however, how many times in a song and for how many songs can you use a variation that has a drum solo every four bars?

I agree, so back maybe to the question "how many styles do we need?". Drum solos are rarely used except in big band and jazz, but given we have 4 variations perhaps a few styles could reserve one exclusively for a percussion solo! Or how about a separate style with bass, drums and guitar solos... oh dear I am dreaming again!! :-)

S.


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________________________
Simon G.K. Williams
simon@svpworld.com
Creative Music & Multimedia
http://www.svpworld.com
________________________

In my work, the best I can say is that I put fills or solos were appropriate. Because of the structure of most of my work, ie not necessarilly a traditional structure like AABA or whatever, I may use a fill or solo anywhere.

I use them all very sparingly though as if you listen to my stuff (at least as of late) I am taking more of a minimalist approach to the compositions. Meaning, less is better and what I don't play is as or more important than what I do play.
jam on,
Terry

I'm different than most I guess when it comes to the fills. When I'd perform I'd sequence everything.. I don't like having to move my hands from the keys or the pitchbend wheel.. I do so much extensive work with the pitchbend, (I really wear that thing out too) that it's often impossible for me to hit a fill while using the pitchbend and playing the keys. Notes are often bent during fills and it's really complicated at times trying to use the pitchbend, play the keys, and press the fill button. Alot of my songs start off with a drum fill. I just like having the drums open the music. Scott like you I too would hold the fill in for several measure to get a good break down, but again that was always recorded, and not done in a live situation. Currently I no longer use the drums on my PSR, and all my drum tracks are now done with a drum machine. When I was using the keyboards drums, and when I was in the mood to really get into a song, I didn't record my drum tracks with the style recorder.. I'd stay away from the loop recording because it just took the natural feel away, and was obviously looped. I recorded everything in realtime (even the drum tracks)... Of course this is time consuming but boy you sure do get that natural feel. Keeping good time isn't an issue for me either since I'm also a drummer. No need for the metronome, I just record all my other tracks first, and then lay down the drums manually because that way it's not the other instruments following the drums, but the drums following the instruments (if that makes any sense).. As far as multipads, these I never use. It would be different if they could be recorded into the sequencer, but I can't find any use for them other than playing around with the presets. Although my drum machine utilizes loop recording to get that natural feel all I do is set the "quantize" to HI... Plus with the drum machine a fill can be recorded with the pattern eliminating the need to record separate pattern just for the fill. The problem I had with every Yamaha arranger I've owned is that you couldn't move from one variation to the next without using a fill. That's what I miss on the MZ-2000.. You could program 4 varitions (and record the fill in the variation) and by pressing another variation button in time with the beat you could move to the next variation without having to program a fill in... That's what drove me crazy with the PSR-550. First it only has 2 variations, and to get to variation 2 you must activate the fill first.. It would be nice if you could bypass that by pressing the variation 2 button and having separate fill 1 and fill 2 buttons...

Squeak

I use the fills on a "as needed" basis, and it's intuitive, NOT planned or reasearched. I learned from my teachers long ago, that most of the energy of any emsomble performance needs to come from WITHIN the sections, and not from the drums. The rhythm is generated from the individual parts intreacting as one to create a groove that has "power" and force.
I DO use the fills, but it's more important to use notes to make transitions. A straight ahead, time keeping drummer is all you REALLY need. The real energy and sizzle comes from the arrangement it self, and how the parts all interact ... including the drummer of course.
Point is:
fills are only as neccisary as the placement of notes that create the accents as well.