Ok, I acknowledge that all current high end model arranger keyboards now have both excellent sounds and styles. Still, each brand-model has specific 'style and sound' strengths & weakness'. I'm interested in getting feedback (biased opinions ) on WHICH arranger board (brand/model) is your FAVORITE for each of the following styles of music:

Classic Pop Standards (1920's - 1950's)
Big Band Swing (1940's)
Jazz Standards (Real Book tunes)
Combo Jazz Brushes (ballad & swing)
50's Rock & Roll
60's Pop-Rock
70's Rock
Classic Country
Latin: Bossa, Samba, Cha Cha, Salsa, Merengue, etc
Contemporary R&B - Funk - Jazz - Pop
Broadway/Show Orchestsra
Ethnic: Polka, Hawaiian, Reggae, World

Please list specific 'sounds/styles' on YOUR arranger keyboard which you feel are most OUTSTANDING. Also list the ones you feel are the weakest (least favorite).
- Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 08-02-2001).]

Ok, I guess I'll start off
Obviously from my BIASED point of view, I think that the Technics boards have the best (and most variety of styles) for those classic pop & jazz swing standards (Misty, etc). I think that Technics excels in orchestra & big band (1940's) as well. I think that Solton EXCELS in Pop & Rock styles particularly because of it's superb LIVE sounding PUNCHY drums, dynamic bass sounds and realistic solo instruments. With the SD1 and it's new sounds (especially the new acoustic piano & upcoming jazz chord voicing recognition), it has furthered it's appeal to jazz enthusiasts as well. The VA7 appears (from the the songs of Dreamer & Sander) to be a VERY clean & realistic sounding board with excellent sounds/styles to meet most all musical genres but particularly Pop/Rock, Latin, Contemporary. The Yamaha 9000/9000pro seems well suited for all styles as well, though not as dynamic (punchy) sounding as the Solton or Roland line. I particularly remember the light latin breezy style I heard performed by Ronnie Foster at Winter Namm. It seems that the 9000/9000pro is well suited for new age pop, as well as Country (as demonstrated beautifully by DonM, our Country performer on the forum). The PA80 appears to have a lots of strength in the contempary pop genre as well.

My current keyboard is the KN5000. My FAV KN5000 instrument sound is the acoustic piano and least favorite are the sax/reeds & drums (for those styles that require a LOT drum KICK & punch). FAV KN5000 styles are med/uptempo swing & big band. Weakest styles (though still good) are rock & blues.

Ok, I now want to hear feedback & opinions from OTHERS regarding YOUR favorite arranger keyboard sounds/styles.

I agree with Scott about the KN5000. The Korg PA80 has some great Big Bamd.
Since I seem to be the resident Country/Western "authority", the overwhelming winner is PSR9000. All the styles are there and all the sounds from Fiddle to Steel to Guitars.
Let me hear if there are any better. The only ones I've owned are G800, all the Technics, most of the Yamahas and the Korg.
DonM

[This message has been edited by DonM (edited 08-02-2001).]

The Yamaha is the hands down winner in country & western styles. Solton is second.
The Big band styles are equally great in Korg, Yamaha & Techniques I think.
The Latin styles on the Solton have a slight edge, but the flash styles on the Yammy are great.
Techno & Underground etc - no clue what they are supposed to sound like, so I lump them into the disco vein - Yamaha, Korg & Solton were my favorites there. In that order.
Sorry to say, but of all the stock styles - Roland has been the bottom of my list for a few years now. The piano & string sounds were always good, but the styles put me to sleep.
After playing this PSR9k for a few months I'm starting to like the simplicity of the styles more & more. It actually makes them MORE versitile for me. I've said before - "I'd rather play with Ringo Star then Steve Gadd, anyday" I want SOLID rhythm - not a soloist.
Last night I played the opening of a new Lexus dealership in Trenton NJ - there were lot's of high income folks strutting around, and in the main showroom there was a jazz trio - digital piano, upright bass & drums. No vocals. Very smooth and classy sound. I was at the other end of the dealership in the service area, where the food was, so I muted all the "gingerbread" parts in the arranger except for bas & drums and I emulated the same basic style as the band out front - the sound was VERY well received, and after an hour or so, I was really getting into the "openness" of the arrangement. I still played a lot of manual bass but I was experimenting with using better, more complex chord voicings and syncapations with my piano hand, so I put the bass on "auto" to free up my brain a little. I played more jazz standards that night then I have in a while! It was a great excercise in "less is more". I highly recommend it to all of you. Turn OFF some of the arranger parts, and fill in the arrangment YOURself! You'll have more fun - sound fresher, and get paid
exactly THE SAME !!!!!!!! THE SAME !!!!!!!
(there's a moral there)

I agree with most of the comments above. But a style is a style and I have all the ones mentioned converted and ready to play instantly on a great keyboard[I wouldn't trade for any of the above boards] my G1000..Fran BTW, For country styles I like the Roland E-600[and I don't fall a sleep U/D].

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 08-02-2001).]

I agree with Fran ! Having the converted style's basically eliminates the "need for styles " issue . Thanks to Fran I have over 600 Roland styles ...300 Yamaha styles ...And now the SD1 allows me to mix other parts into Roland patterns ! Perfect !
I am missing Technics styles! I miss placed them.
Oh...Did I mention the Korg styles ??? Or Wersi styles ? or ..........Dano

On the issue of converted styles . . . I own the EMC StylesWorks Universal style converter program and have many hundreds or possibly thousands ( , too many to keep track of) of most major brand/model arranger keyboard styles available. For the most part, they sound pretty good on my Technics KN5000, after a little tweaking . This has kept my 3 year old keyboard sounding FRESH to this day.

That being said, a converted style is still typically NOT going to sound as good as the original style did when played on its' orginal intended keyboard. Styles do NOT include the sounds themselves. Because the unique sounds of the original keyboard are missing, the converted style played on another keyboard may not sound quite as good or at least as originally intended. No matter what converted style you play on your keyboard, it still will be limited to the type of sounds produced by your keyboard. This is one reason I am exploring the possibility of purchasing another arranger keyboard, so I can add to (not replace) my current Technics board. - Scott

Last years I made a great tour :
G800/Em2000 nice pianos, great solos but the
styles...Good ; good to sleep!!!
Korg I30 : Excellent Jazz/pops and poor latin(Bossanova with caribean feeling Huurrr!)
Yamy 740: Good for all but I stopped my live
performances every two hours to change the
3 custom styles.
Now,Psr 9000, a honest Kb. Easy to operate and the programable multipads are helpful to increase the styles.




------------------
ChicoBrasil

Hi Scott
I second your opinions. I really like the Big Band styles of the KN5k. The Jazz styles are nice, too - but not enough slow ones. But, what's up with the Waltzes? Hardly any to choose from (except all the heavy ethnic, polka sounding ones). Why aren't there more generic 3/4 beats that could be used for a wide variety of songs. Hold the accordians, please. Not to mention - there aren't any 6/8 styles at all (are there?).
And, I hear Uncle Dave. The Yamaha styles are simpler, but still very, very good. Just have to keep using more of the variations so it doesn't sound too repetitious.
Also, you are right Scott. Converted styles just don't sound right. Oh, they may be o.k., even nice. But nothing like they way they sound on the original board. Even the commercial style disks from other companies (Neil Blake, Carrillon, etc) don't always sound too great to my ear.
Tom

Scottyee,

I couldn't agree with you more on the issue of converted styles. In lay-man's terms, what you are converting is a set of commands that determine WHEN WHAT instrument should/shouldn't sound. In this light, most convertion software is currently based on GM, right? So your converted style(s) can only play as good as the assigned sounds in the new keyboard! Now when KETRON (then Solton) introduced 'GROOVES' this completely defeats the convertion scale. Try converting a Latin rhythem (say Merengue) from a KETRON X1 for use on say a YAMAHA PSR 9000. The Bass and chords will be close, but believe me, you'll be way off on the drums (if any at all). In the case of the SD1, this is even further enhanced. Some of the drum sounds (drum 2) are entirely grooves. This means that if you MUTE the groove track (drums2), you'll hear ... nothing interms of drums. If you were to convert such a style for use on say a KORG, there will be NO drums! I believe GEM has also implimented similar technology (RASS) but these are ingrooved into the styles - rather than outlayed as separate tracks.

How do styles converted from KETRON -> Others sound - any feedback?

I found for the most part many of the converted styles for Yamaha to be fairly useless in the PSR740. They never sound right. Many non Yamaha conversions won't play on xg works software at all either because the Casm section is missing some data ( I can't specifically remember what the exact set of commands are at the moment ). If I hear a style that has potential for me, and I want to use it on a Yamaha board, I'll rebuild it myself. This entails sending it through XG works xg editor to make some of the voices and effects compatible for Yamaha,. Then I add the missing command via CASM edit software. I have done it a few times, especially with MZ2000 styles, of which there are few conversions available. It works well, but truth be told, it's almost easier to build a style I like from scratch either in Jammer pro, in real time on the board, or a combination of both. One of the styles I liked best was mainly made up on the algorithimic " Music By Numbers " program. That took a lot of editing to get it to sound ok though. I often just save the styles I work on in Jammer as " Jammer styles ". Since I rarely play out as an entertainer, I don't need additional styles inside of the keyboard. I have set the Jammer software up so that the patches are correct for both my PA80 and PSR740, and I know how tro insert a few of the basic midi control change commands as well. I haven't even bothered trying to convert any manufacturers styles for the PA80 since I prefer the Korg styles anyway, although I made a few user styles for it and they sounded pretty good to me ( again after a lot of work ).

AJ, The Solton styles fare no better for me than any of the others. They are a bit more complex than the Yamaha, Roland, Tchnics or Gem styles I've used though, but that only serves to make conversions even more of a labor.

As far as which board works best for a specific type of music, of all the arranger keyboards I've played, the PA80 works as well as anythying I can find for what I like to play and compose. Much of that is Jazz and Blues stuff, but I dabble with progressive rock and synth oriented stuff as well. It may not be the best choice for a lot of people, but I'm very happy with what I can do on it. To be fair though, I have not played any of the latest Rolands ( VA series ) and have I never played a Solton. I have played a KN5000, Yamaha 9000 and lower end PSRs ( I have a 740 ), Gem something or other, I30, MZ2000 and G1000.
It does seem like all of the higher end arrangers would work fine for me though, since the most important point for me is just playing a board to the best of my ability and liking what I can get out of the board and the numerous tools now available in them.


AJ ( Bluezplayer )

Hi all,
Have always thought Technics styles were way superior for big band/ jazz. Loved my 5000 and now adore my 6000. Particularly like the Manhattan Jazz on the 6000...primarily a vocal based style and one of the best I have heard anywhere and on anything.

Now that it is gone and I don't have to negotiate that god-awful OS I will praise the EM2000! At least I will praise the 'acoustic styles'. Particularly the acoustic piano styles which I thought were excellent. If I miss anything about that board it is those styles and the zip drive.

I owned a korg i40m and was not overly impressed with any of the styles save perhaps the gospel/blues. Even then I thought they were way to harsh and constantly detracted from the melody.

Slight digression but.....
I played the yammie 9000 pro the other day at a dealers nearby (they finally got it in), and I have to admit if I could have I would have taken her home. Did not have time to objectively assess the board (at least not long enough for my opinion to count for anything), but you know when you get the feeling......I just got to have this....well I did and I will!!!

....not that I will be getting rid of my Technics....did that with the 5000 and regretted it ever since. Just let's keep that between us for now though. I will have one hard time persuading the other half that it is a good idea to have both boards
ttfn
Tony

I used to be a big Technics fan, until I got my 9000Pro.
The reason why I chose this board were the Dance, Disco, Hip Hop, Pop, Techno, etc... Styles.
I play mostly modern dance music from the 80's, 90's and today, including light Rock, Pop Ballads and Pop. Even though I loved the guitar styles on the SD1 the Yammy gave me more variety in the type of music I play.
Eric