Does anyone know of any rumors of a new sampler from Roland? There were rumors this winter, but I haven't heard anything else. I sure hope they come out with something that will combine sampling and synthesis, like a workstation similar to the Kurzweil K-2000, only better. Any thoughts?

I have not heard anything . Everyone is making these ridiculous groove samplers for people who have no creativity or ability to play . I use a KORG DSS-1 which combines sampling , wave form drawing , additive synthesis with analogue filters and amplifiers . I remember when samplers were used to create new and never before heard sounds , now they are just used to steal other people's drum lines and grooves .

Bitchy, bitchy 800dv! I have managed to use the S2000 to create damn fine never before heard grooves! I don't know about any new roland samplers, the last one I heard of was a the "dr. sample" which was a bit of a toy! The S2000 synthesis capabiliteis are awesome (I also own an SY77) To be honest I think you'd be hard pushed to find a recently released sampler that doesn't offer atleast some of the "old synths" features, only better!

I can't stand music created on samplers , it always sounds poor and wimpy and repeditive in a bad way . I'm an analogue man , I got rid of that DSS-1 because their ain't no damn cheap shit sampler that can do what an analogue synthesizer can do . Sampled music is unimpressive , it just sounds duplicated but analogue synths make you WORK for your sound , not a bunch of bullshit program windows . I can't stand MIDI either , What a joke .

Yea. New sucks. Ever since electricity came along, music has just gone downhill. You wanna pipe-organ sound? Play a fkin pipe-organ! You want some strange flutey sound? Chop down a tree and start whittlin away! That's what I call TRUE analog. THAT'S working for your sound. I bet most synthesists out there didn't even build their own instruments!

How about gluing a fkin alpenhorn to a slide whistle? I got your physical modeling right here, bub! But nooOOOooo, your got your ring modulators and your lfo's and your resonance filters.... Whatever happened to just beatin on a hunk o'metal, and bending it from time to time?

I've seen my grandpa do more with a couple of whisky bottles and some old silverware than any of these newfangled electric "turn a nob, flip a switch" contraptions.

This new shit just isn't music anymore. It either sounds different from the old stuff, or sounds just like it with less effort. Whatever happened to the old days where you went out and killed and animal, pulled its skin over a hollowed out tree and beat on it with its own forelimbs?

I love classical music , I love the sound of Cellos , violins , pianos , flutes , guitars , horns , saxophones , and all the others . When synthesizers were introduced , THEY WERE NOT MADE TO RECREATE ACOUSTIC SOUNDS !!!! Synthesizers were made to offer the musician NEW SOUNDS . But the NON-CREATIVE did not know what to do with them , they would ask " how do I make a piano sound " . So the birth of at first preset synths and then digital synths starting with that piece of shit DX-7 where all you do is push a button to get your piano sound or your organ sound . The old synthsizers , you can push all the buttons or throw all the switches and it still will DO NOTHING until you PLAY IT . The old one offer you the user interface with SOUND and PLAYING just like any acoustic instrument . Using technology to recreate the middle ages is RETARDED !!!!!!! Samplers , MIDI , digital synths with no real time control is for the non creative push a button crowd - you know who you are because you all sound the same !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've got nothing against analog. But I'm not about to go all digital either (as if I could afford to). Basically, I could give a groundhog's gonads how a song is made. Are composers lame because other musicians are paid to do their performances? I'm sure there was a day when people went ape shit over sheet music: "It doesn't show the tone!!!!!!!!! People will just play the same crap over and over again!!!!!!!" Then when Edison figured out how to record sound: "HOLY JESUS!!! Those losers can't even play the fckin sheet music!!!!!!!!!" Lame is lame, no matter what your instruments are (look at Yanni). I'm content enough to listen to some street kid beat on a bucket for crack money. If you don't like the music, don't blame the gear, blame the choad that's playing it.

Here's a few questions for you. Where do you draw the line between using a prerecorded sample and doing multiple takes when recording to get the best performance? Are all the tracks on everything you've ever recorded been written and performed exclusively by you? Are you sure your precious analog sound is that unique? I can tell by your conviction that your music doesn't sound at all like any of the millions of repetitive knob-tweaking analog shit that's already been made.

God forbid anybody should make music any differently. Making music should definitely be a chore. I can tell you personally, that I sure as hell can't play anything worthwhile 'til I've whipped myself for a good half hour and shoved a hungry squirrel down my trowsers. What's the point in doing anything if you don't have to suffer and toil for it.

Syrupdude, I loved your first post. I almost fell off of my seat laughing my ass off.

Okay, seriously though, I have to agree with both sides. While I love the analog sound,
I see nothing wrong with the digital side either. Im a K2000 owner, and I use both analog and digital sounds. And while it would be great to hire my own symphony orchestra, it of course is not possible.
With all of the work that I do both at home and in the studio, the results are quite impressive. I get a nice dance beat going,add analog sounds, alittle orchestral and weird shit, and then real guitars. All put together, the sound is huge and believe me, the average club worshipper is not going to stop in the dance moves and say, "hey thats a real TR-808, or hey hes using a Kurzweil. No, if the music sounds good, thats all that matters. I do confess though that I own a Roland JX-3P, but I took those sounds and put them in the Kurzweil by sampling them. They sound exactly the same.
The Roland is for sale.

What we need are better sampling editor functions, and better filters or effects processors in a workstation. But that would probably put recording studios out of business. There is nothing wrong with analog simulations, and digital. Please be assured
while all of these "new" synth companies are creating analog synth reproductions, other didtal synth companies like Roland, Kurzweil,
and Akai are working on much better advances in technology that will soon blow them away.
As for classical music, Im a big fan as well,
but lets not get too hasty here either. If Bach had the oppurtunity to own a synth that
recreated the sound of a tracker organ or hell, even a hammond, he would be delighted.
Now, instead of having to walk 4 miles to a church to practice, he could put the synth under his arm and take it anywhere. Its how you use the technology that counts.

[This message has been edited by Chris Attison (edited 09-14-1999).]

[This message has been edited by Chris Attison (edited 09-14-1999).]

Oh come now. What are you all talking about. The real sampler is out there, it has and always was the Emu range. The new E4 Ultra makes the S6000 look like a toy (the S2000 could not even begin to compare).

The E4 Ultra is a modular synthesiser that uses samples as the sound source. I have looked at the AKAI, Kurzweil and Roland offerings and there is absolutely no comparison. Belive me, the E4 absolutely walks over all of the competion.

Since none of you mention this machine I can only assume that none of you know anything about it. If your not happy with the samplers you have I strongly suggets you try one out (you'll need about 1 week to study the basic features and editting capabilities)

Roland are not going to produce anything that 'blows this away'. Developement of products with the fire power and versatility of the E4 take hundreds of man years of developemt time. Roland have nothing that even compares to build on.

I can only assume that your comments on the likelyhood of the afore mentioned companies producing products that 'blow' the others aways is based on the fact that you own gear made by these companies.

Synth and electronic music equipement is basically very straight forward to design. The creative part comes from the intelectual input of the design team not the technology.

There is no up and comming sound technology which is going to emerge in the next few years. All that is happening at the moment is that DSP chips are getting more powerful enabeling synths and samplers to add more features, polophony etc.

Of all the companies out there Roland appear to be the most 'guilty' of producing kit that 'makes things easy'.

Music is not about kit. Slagging off equipement in discussion groups is pointless. If you have not heard great music that uses samplers then you don't know what to listen to (or, more likely, you could not tell samplers were made used to make it).

Also, samplers are just great but they can't do evrything (and nor should they). If you think you can sample everything the Roland JX-3P can do then you havn't discovered what the JX-3P can do. The whole point of analogue synths is subtle (or sometimes not so subtle) variations over time. You cannot capture the true nature of a great analogue synth with a sampler.

Personally I absolutely love the new physically modeled synths. Certainly old analogue synths are great but there not nearly as good as many people suggest.

The 'new analogues' offer a perfect combination of convienient features and awesome sound. I am fortunate enough to be able to compare old and new in my own studio.

By all means carry on complaining about the products that have already 'blown away' the digital toss (yes I even own some of that too) turned out by your favourite companies during the 80s. Meanwhile, I'll keep using them to make music.

Music and music technology are two different things. Personally I love both of them.

Paul

I must admit that Ive never played around with Emu, but then again Im happy with what I have. If you think the Roland JX-3P is so
great then mines for sale, I know what to do
with it, and now that its sampled to another
keyboard, I now have different and newer ways of using that sound whethter it be new effects or new LFO triggers and what have you. And trust me, many of todays analog buff
artists that you have come to be inspired by so much by use Akai, Kurzweil and Roland synths. And, you know very well that unless
you are a millionaire, that none of us can
line our studio walls with vintage synths.
Better yet, even if I was, I wouldnt do that
anyway because its a hassle and it leaves you limited to what you can do with todays digital synths, just as many of these artists suchas Chemical Bro's, Photek, Crystal Methd. And Ive seen their inventory
of equipment and its 80% digital; I see alot of NordLeads in there as well. I have always loved the analog sound, but the pompisity of
the whole scene makes me sick.

I would agree, there certainly is a lot of pomposity out there. I would also agree that you need to be very rich to afford a number of 'clasic' analogues (certainly beyond my means).

I guess I am in the wrong forum here anyway as I don't actually own a single peice of Roland kit (I used to have a D50 which I quite liked but it was a pain in the arse to program). I have nothing against the likes of Roland at all, they have produced some great equipement I just did not personally fancy any of it.

My main concern with 'digital' equipement of the 80s is not the sound that can be achieved (even the modest D50 was capable of some awesom sonic out). The problem was that you had to edit it through a tiny little window with just a couple of buttons. This tends to somewhat limited the pleasure of experimenting the the unit.

The two synths that I work with the majority of the time are the Yamaha AN1x and a Nord lead 2 Rack. I absolutely love both of them and, to be honest, items like the Pro One have not featured since these arrived.

I think the Nord is quite well recognised and deserves it's solid reputation. It's sound is wondeful, it's easy to edit and it's a four part synth with four seperate outs. Perhaps not cheap but my new one cost less than the second hand price of a TB303.

As far as I am concerned the Yamaha AN1x is the most underated synth I have every used. It is only realy a one part, 10 voice unit (though 2 part is possible) but it's built in effects, note sequencer and controller sequencer (free eg) really allow it to perform. Sonically I believe that it can easily outperform the Nord (though the Nord can undoubtedly produce a rawer sound).

My AN1x cost me £449.00 brand new and my friend has just purchased one second hand for £345.00. Absolutely outstanding value and the free PC editor is the best I have ever seen.

On the genuine analogue side we tend to work mainly with a Novation Bassstaion and a Waldorf Pulse. Both of these excellent mono-synths are now available for under £250.00

In my opinion those of us who like working with analogue style synthesisers have never had it better. Prices of new equipement is comming down and this tends to drop the prices of second hand gear for those who wish to buy it.

Personally I believe that the smaller companies like Clavia, Novation, Waldorf and one or two others have really leapt ahead of the major manufactures. Any large corporation has to produce goods for the mass market and this tends to lead to a certain blandness as the products on not focused on a specific requiremnt.

The current exception to this is possibly Yamaha. I never anticipated owning much Yamaha gear a few years ago. However, the AN1x is really good and the A3000 appears to be a great budget sampler. I recently purchased an 01V which, despite a rather heated debate, I really like.

I like to think that the future of truly great items of music equipement may lie in smaller companies producing specialist items. The growth of internet sales and distribution allow tiny companies to reach a huge customer base.

In relation to the JX-3P I wasn't trying to suggest it was a great peice of kit. I have plyed on one a few times as they are one of the more common second hand items that come up. I think it's Ok but with the cost of so much great new equipement comming down so quickly I have very little interest in older equipement.

My real reason for getting involved in this in the first place was the lack of appreciation out there of what the EMU E4 range can do. These are totally serious machines. EMU really need to get more information into circulation on the capability of these products. The information provided on their web site goes no way towards decribing these units.

I look forward to the next round of products form the leading manufacturers. This gives the specialists something to beat.

Now, whats all the fuss about this Supanova and the Nord Modular ??

Paul

Syrupdude, I like you already . Damn right lame is lame and YANNI is DAMN LAME . I don't just blame the instruments , the lame musicians are the ones who create the demand for these pieces of shit samplers and sample playback machines . I don't like MIDI , I don't like any samplers or sample playback machines . I have used or tried them all and they are a joke . One program window is one tooooooo many . NO sampler and I MEAN NO SAMPLER can capture the essence of any analogue or natural sound because of all the fluctuations in the waves as time progresses . I like instruments that have all the parameters in front of you , NOTHING ELSE WILL DO . I record my music using ONLY 4 tracks and NO MORE because I like electronic music that feels alive and fluctuates like music should . Music created on samplers and 16 , or 32 , or 48 track recorders sound boring , over done , and you loose the live feeling . I like digital recording , I like analogue recording , I like digital effects , I LOVE ANALOGUE SEQUENCERS . I still will only use 4 tracks . Any more is OVERKILL .

32 tracks baby, all the way. 4 tracks is for those who listen in mono.

If that is supposed to impress me , IT DOES NOT . All you people with MIDI and 32 or 64 or 128 tracks sound the same , unremarkable , dull and long winded . I always get statements from people saying to me " you must have recorded digitally " or " you used a lot more than 4 tracks " . The fact is , I can blow any over produced JOKE away with just 4 tracks of reel to reel tape than any jack ass could do with 32 or more . If you are well educated enough to know of KRAFTWERK , they ARE THE MOST SOPHISTICATED electronic band on GOD'S green earth - PERIOD - and they ONLY USE 4 tracks at the most . The fact is , over production and MIDI garbage DOES NOT and NEVER will impress me . I have used it all , EMULATORS , AKAI S series , FAIRLIGHTS , ALPHA CENTAURI , ROLAND , KORG , you name the rest and I have used it . IF IT AIN'T ANALOGUE , IT IS SHIT . I will let the rest of you jokes use the samplers , and the 32 track crap .

Damn 800dv,!! where is your sense of humor?
That little recent statement was not posted to impress you; it was put there as a joke. And
please, I think your getting angry for no good reason and that is compelling you to say
some weird stuff like," if it isnt analog its
shit" and "I can blow you away with 4 tracks". Firstly, you will never be able to blow anyone away with four tracks on a professional recording today. Kraftwerk did not have the luxury of digital synth workstations like we have today. If they did, you bet your ass they would have used them. Not to say you cant get good results; my demos were on a 8 track
and it came out pretty damn good. And as for the analog statement, please dont pressure me or anyone else with that analogsnobbery.
If you actually believe that, then you are in for a bad suprise when you go to record an
album. Even if you do go that route, you are limiting yourself to further possibilities. Even the self proclaimed analog-gods like Portishead recorded on 32
tracks. Making statements like "jack-asses
only use digital" is going way over your head. Ninety percent of ALL musicians use
digital. Now are you going to say that ninety percent of all bands out there whom
are extremely successful are jack-asses? You are also insulting basically every Roland user here by your vile statement.Where is your debut platnum album that should make us kneel before the almighty you?

Chaka!



[This message has been edited by Chris Attison (edited 09-27-1999).]

Of course I have a sense of humour , why else would I write that ! As far as KRAFTWERK , they have been totaly digital since 1990 and they still ONLY use up to 4 tracks . As far as 90 percent of all musicians using digital , sorry I don't buy it - no one I know uses digital ( I do know a lot of poeple ) . As far as our Platinum status , I wish ! But we were voted best electronic band in Georgia , a small position for sure but it is a start . I do love to watch all of you digital junkies get your panties in a wad , because it's funny . But seriously , I DO NOT like digital becuase IT IS BLAND and boring . I actually do like digital recording and digital effects and I do use a REBIRTH 338 , But I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT USE MIDI . As far as the analogue modeling synthesizers ( like the ROLAND JP-8000 ) , I like those - I'm not stupid enough to pay $1200 for an unreliable PROPHET 10 when I could get a brand new JP-8000 . I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT LIKE music generated on samplers , it all sounds the same and they do sound like jack asses . I'm not out to put my self above others . I DO NOT LIKE synthesizers that are sample play back , if you like sounding like everyone else than I can't help that . Synthesizers were NOT made to reproduce old natural sounds , So - you damn wright I truley believe in analogue because they STILL are the MOST ADVANCED musical instruments ever made ( ie - MODULAR ) . Something that just mimics the middle ages is not a step forward . Now If they were to come out with something that was a totally new approach to sound synthesis and it could make a whole new range of NON ACOUSTIC sounds , then I would be all over it . And trust me , if you heard our music , you would fall to your knees , if it's to throw up or worship , that's up to you ( hopefully the latter ) .

WOW..thats one hefty thread!

Anyhow..the rumour I heard from roland reps was that they were dumping all there gys into the VS line of products..but are starting tio lget back to work on a new sampler. The way I hear it is that it will have VS8F expansion bays for the 1680 effects board in line with samples..I don't know about any memory issues..but it'ld be great if tghey could develop something along the lines of the gigasamp in an outboard box like the VS units. We'll see.

800dv, not doubting that you are a good musician, it would be unfair to assume that you were not, but dont you think you are being alittle unfair by saying that anyone who uses midi
is a joke. How do you know if someone right now is doing something new that will blow you
away? Dont think that you are above that.
Nobody is. And I heard through the grapevine that your beloved Kraftwerk used an SSL console on one of their recordings(dont ask me which). I HIGHLY doubt that anyone would use only 4 tracks on a 32 or 48 track console.

King Idiot, where did you get this info on a new Roland sampler?

Again , about MIDI and the people who use it - it is just a joke to get your panties in a wad . I really don't like MIDI and it is a joke to all of us analogue heads but I do have some favorite groups that use it , like KOMPUTER , YAMO and DEVO . As far as KRAFTWERK , their recording system is something that they built and it does have a lot more than just 4 tracks but they only use 4 . Their method of recording is to program all the machines and let them run until they come across something they like and then they record it on 2 tracks and the other 2 are for vocals or the DLS ( digital lead singer ) . That is how I do it as well , eventually I would like to have a KORG D-8 ( I don't want data compression ) . I also have a DLS and I use an old SPEAK and SPELL for other kinds of vocals . Try not to let it upset you too much , I live in Georgia and their are a lot of analogue heads here and we poke at MIDI and samplers for fun .

Chris-

I was talking with a Roland rep about a month or two ago. He said that they had ideas for one a while ago,..ut scrapped it,..due to development issues and sending alot of guys over for delopment of the VS produts and the digital Mixers. He said the Sampler was pretty amazing,..and that it had pretty much all Roland Effects ever made built-in ( I suspect the VS8f expansion boards..its their new hip thing). I could see hem tryig to put a hard disk in it tho...I think they have the pontential to due that. We'll see...I'ld suspect to hear something more about it beginning of next year or something like that.