Like every year in December, PG Music has released a new version of Band in a Box; I have already downloaded mine and can say that is well worth the price (which, if you upgrade from a previous version, is really a bargain).
Among other things, I loved the new Real Drums (there are now 20 sets of them, and they are great also for creating rhytm loops if you have an arranger like the new Korgs). But there is more than that: for a more authentic "live" feeling, there are now also Real Guitars and even a Real Saxophone.
For more details, click here.

Hi Dreamer,
how are the new styles??
I'm debating whether to upgrade or not as the real drums are also available as part of powertracks pro audio 12 package.
I've tried some of the styles already thru beta testing, but didn't get a chance to try the pop frets & country styles.
Are they worthwhile??

How are the Terry Clark Jazz Drums??

The Real Drums can also be used for creating loops for our PA's by using PT12 itself ( ie you can bypass BIAB if one doesn't already own it)
Actually I found I have more control by using PT12.
Unfortunately I'm limited by memory on the PA800, but with your PA2x ( when it arrives)you'll have a ball.
I have to pick & choose the loops I want to use a bit more carefully.

best wishes
Rikki


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dreamer:
[B]

Hi Rikki
By what you are saying, I guess you can't use any outboard storage to swap the samples in internal memory ?

I have BIAB and wasn't thinking of upgrading until now, but with the limited RAM, I don't know.

Bernie

Hi Bernie,
I haven't really checked into that, but I would imagine the samples could be swapped around ie save the pcm data to a memory stick & load back in as required with the matching styles , (the loops even work as pads).

or are you actually referring to using BIAB songs ( midifiles) with real drums , in which case no, they'd be too large.
Maybe you could do the BIAB songs with real drums as mp3's. Be interesting to know if the PA800 mp3 function could play back a BIAB mp3? Unfortunately I don't have the mp3 card in my PA800 to try .

best wishes
Rikki

Thanks Rikki
Interesting thoughts. I'll check it out.
Bernie

Rikki,
I think that you, like I did, should pay only the upgrade to the Super Pak to have all the 20 Real Drums sets. The price for the upgrade is just 79 USD and you can download all the files from the PG Music website. The shipment to Europe by ordinary mail costs another 10 dollars, but maybe to Australia is more than that.
So, what can I say? The Terry Clark styles really rock and I can see them being the fundament for many PA2 styles... besides if you buy BIAB 2008 you will receive also the Real Tracks package, including real guitars and also a real saxophone; I don't know if that is included in Power Tracks as well.
I will let you know more in the next few days, as I learn more about the program.

Hi Dreamer,
I suppose I should.
I might get them posted as well as it's such a huge download just in case the 72 hour link isn't enough with my rather poor internet download speed.
I'll check into it.

By the way, when will you finally get your PA2x, they're already shipping in Aust.
Bet you can't wait.

I have something a bit different in mind with the drum loops ( grooves) if it works.
Find loops that are fairly basic like jazz brush swishes for instance & spice them up with additional midi drums on the percussion track to turn them into fills or just alter the rhythm slightly.
A bit more like how it's done on the sd1.
Live Drums on the drum track with additional drums on the percussion track.

I've noticed that even a 1 bar stereo wav loop is nearly 1 mb. If I can use the same loop over & over & make it sound a bit different by adding midi drums I'll be happy.

best wishes
Rikki


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dreamer:
[B]

Rikki
When you and Dreamer get this sorted out, I would like to know any benefits derived from updating from BIAB 2007 with a 2006 megapak.

I could try and record BIAB as MP3 if I knew what to record.

Bernie

Hi Bernie,
basically what Dreamer & I have been discussing is using BIAB2007/08 Real Drum audio loops as an inexpensive alternative
to using commercial drum loops. The $79 supapak upgrade cost me roughly the same as my one and only Jazz Drum cd set a couple of years ago. Wheras with BIAB I've got the equivalent of 20 of these sets.
( though only 10 are brand new)

Our korgs have the ability to load & process these wav drum loops, which can in turn be used in a style or pad to replace the existing midi drums. Really handy for converted styles, who's drums are more often than not less than satisfactory.
The above is really only of use if you intend to edit styles.


The only advantage you could get from upgrading to BIAB 2008 would be if you use mp3's as part of your performance???

I don't know how well BIAB itself in normal song mode would function for live use on stage unless you already use it this way?? but as an mp3 you've got a prerecorded backing performance that you should be able to play back via your korgs mp3 function.

I've been debating buying the mp3 card for my PA800. One reason would be to create backing mp3's from BIAB, SD1 & PSR1500 should I ever decide to sell the keyboards, I've still got backing tracks of some of my favourite songs that I'd created on those keyboards .

I don't actually know how the mp3 function works on the PA800.

Does the PA800 play mp3's recorded on pc's or does it only play mp3's recorded on the PA800 itself??

If it only plays mp3's recorded on itself the recording method would be different.

BIAB can also record songs as mp3's, but not much use if the PA800 can't play them back.

I wouldn't dash out & get the upgrade yet. You can do whatever experimentation with mp3 "songs" on the 2007 version.

I've mainly upgraded to get the new styles & new real drums for style creation sources for my pa800.

You'd actually need to get the supapak to get all the drums, not the megapak.

best wishes
Rikki

Rikki and others,
follow this link and you will find a demo posted by a guy named Burningbusch (who is the owner of the Purgatory Creek site). In this demo he plays with a Rhodes sound on top of a track laid down with just BIAB 2008.

Rikki
The MP3 card records anything coming into it. Whatcha hear is what it records. It plays any MP3 from any source. I download MP3 backing tracks and alter the tempo and key in the pc with Key Shifter(although I can change tempo in PA800). I put them in a mem stick and they are instantly recallable and linked to registration and lyrics, if I like.. These I put in the Songbook like any other song.

I upgraded to BIAB because I want to keep currant. I will wait on Mega or superpak until I get up to speed.

Thanks for your input.

Bernie

Hi Rikki,
Some questions if I may... I have checked out the BIAB 2008 web page and it really does look like a good bit of gear. I have BIAB 11 I think, aso I have a bit of an idea about what it does. As you know I have recently go the PA2xpro which has excellent drums, but what I was thinking was would BIAB be good for CREATING styles to use on the PA? The PA has a solid style creation engine, but do you reckon BIAB would be easier? I want to create styles for that unique thing called Oz Rock..Angels Chisels, Divinyls etc etc...any thoughts?
Thanks
Dennis

Hi Bernie,
wow, that's brilliant. I'll definately have to check out the mp3 option.

It would be great to have the option of using either BIAB's mp3 recording mode which I've only ever tried with a softsynth to date,
or better still use the audio inputs of the PA800 & record the backing tracks from my other keyboards & Biab.
Makes me wish I'd recorded some of my old KN7000 songs as mp3 backing tracks before I sold it. It had the perfect setup up with it's audio recording software.
One can be wise in hindsight. haa haa
best wishes
rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bernie9:
[B]Rikki

Hi Dennis,
you can create styles for the pa from BIAB styles using the smf import/export.

If your're asking would it be easier to create styles in BIAB then convert them to PA , personally I don't thinks so.

The BIAB stylemaker has certainly improved with the midi to style function, plus you can mix n match style parts to create new styles, but if you're trying to start totally from scratch, maybe not that easy.
I've tried , but I found the settings a tad confusing. I prefer the PA's stylemaking functions anyday.

If you check out the stylemaker option in BIAB, you'll notice styles are made up of dozens of parts, plus you don't really get the oportunity of doing great intro's and endings like you can in keyboards.
It works differently to style creation on keyboards.
You'd really be doubling up on your job.

The PA's style editing/creation functions are brilliant. Plus you have the ability to import/export midifile tparts to a pc sequencer.

best wishes
Rikki

Thanks heaps Rikki, that answers my question perfectly
Cheers
Dennis

Hi Dennis,
have you found any brand of keyboard that has styles to suit the oz rock bands?
If I rememember correctly the sd1 styles didn't really suit either. Did any of the psr styles work for you.

BIAB has heaps of rock styles with it's supa or mega paks, but again I wouldn't know if any of them would suit. Have you checked out BIAB's demo's?

best wishes
Rikki

Hi Rikki,
No the SD wasn't quite there. Neither is the PA1x, the PA2X the Yamahas and Rolands. Most of them have drums that are useable but for some reason the bass patterns and guitar patterns are just not quite right, you know what I mean? I dont know, maybe I am being too fussy. I listened to some demos of BIAB, and you can sort of hear something there that might be okay, which is why I asked the question. But you are correct the creation engine on the PA is very good so I will just have to (FINALLY) get to it, extract the digit and write some..I mean after all, its really only some bass patterns and some guitar patterns that are required so it might not be too difficult. My motivation is what's difficult as I have excellent MIDI file versions and I think, why should I bother with style versions? But they do give more flexibility in playing live I guess...anyhoo.
Thanks
Dennis

Hi Dennis
Why not convert some of your Rock Midi files into a style, that way you will have the best of both worlds.
Just a thought

Bill

Hi Bill,
Yes that would be a good solution, and one that I think warrants some further investigation, so thanks for raising it. I will investigate how easy (or not!) it is to do that using the PA2x.
Cheers
Dennis

Hi Dennis,
our PA's do have midifile to style function, but it won't work for "variations" if the "song based" midifile has chord changes in the section you want to use for your variation..

A strange way around it could be to do it via omb software. ie use midi to style function . OMB will transpose the notes so that there is only a single chord type in the section. Save as psr style.
Change the .sty extension to mid & you have a midifile.

Have you actually considered doing pads for your guitar & bass tracks?
Pads have most (if not all) the same great editing functions as the styles.

If you created pads, you'd be able to audition them with onboard styles, mute the existing bass & guitar & find which styles your pads will work with. Then use the copy "pad to style" to create your new style.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by miden:
[B]

Hi Rikki,
Another good suggestion, and they are linked to the styles tempo as well. Might eb easier than writing a whole style, although I looked at the manual last night and creating it a style on the PA seems not too difficult at all. Don't know why I ever thought it was..It was a bit trickier on the SD1+ though ...Thanks for the pads suggestion Rikki I will look at that.
Cheers
Dennis

Hi Dennis,
certainly is easier than the sd1+.
Also if a track isn't 100% perfect, you can edit it onboard, instead of having to re-record.
If you're actually planning on recording guitar tracks, checkout guitar mode. The concept is brilliant. Haven't actually tried using it yet, but I did study a couple of the onboard styles to see how it worked. May be a perfect way for you to create those elusive oz rock guitar tracks.
Function also available in pads.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by miden:
[B]

Yes I did check out the guitar mode.It looks like going to be brilliant in doing power chord accomps, as well as other guitar strumming stuff. I had a bit of a muck around in the write style mode this morning, and it is really very accurate.

Rikki if I cna ask you a favour, I know its a bit presumptious, but as you are in Oz too...if you hear of anyone who might be interested in buying an SD1+ can you let me know? Assuming you don't sell them yours that is. I am having a devil of a time selling it here as the name is not well known. I have had several serious overseas enquiries, but then it comes to the freight issue, and whoa!!!!! The cheapest I can get to Europe for example is $750!! Anyway, if you can that's appreciated, if you dont want to or can't that's understood and fine as well .
Cheers
Dennis

Hi Dennis,
have you mentioned it in the Ketron Yahoo user group?
I know at least 3 other Aussies in the group.
Maybe someone could be looking for a backup.

Unfortunately since moving up the coast , I've lost my contacts in Sydney.

Don't worry we're not competing on selling.
I'm hanging on to mine for the time being.
It's been a hard slog convincing hubby I needed 3 keyboards again. haahaa. I'm nuts, I know it.

best wishes
rikki


[QUOTE]Originally posted by miden:
[B]

Rikki, I am surprised!!!

I've been using 2004 for 4 years now live. I enjoy the pedal bass on beats 2 and 4 at the turnarounds and the intros. I enjoy using the second variations at the bridges. For the swing standards I play w/ my tenor this works great. From the click of the play button it starts almost immediately. Same with the stop button. It stops almost immediately.

I have 2008 installed now. It takes 4 seconds to start and four seconds to stop. If I happen to click on the wrong song it will take 4 seconds to stop while playing live. This annoys me quite a bit.

My desktop and laptop are very similar. I have 500MHz and a 15GB HD. Before I spend $500 to $700 on a new laptop will someone with a faster computer check the start and stop time on 2008. If you have the same problem with delayed play and stop; I am going to get my refund for 2008 before the 30 days is up.

I really just use the rhythm section for practicing and playing live. I really like the soloist feature for learning new licks. The real sax takes too long to load. I can just choose the Dexter Gordon soloist and it does great licks on the up-tempo tunes, and it only takes a couple of seconds to create the solo. Some times I do 4’s with the Guitar soloist also. This works well with my tenor.

I didn’t have room to download the real drums. I assume they probably take quite a while to load also? This wouldn’t work live for me either. Is the real sax and drums loading as a WAV file on the HD, and that is why it takes a while for them to load?
Please if I’m missing something here, will someone straighten me out?

My main purpose for upgrading was new styles. The newer styles just don't fit the style of Jazz that I do. Again please let me know if it take 4 or 5 seconds for a song to start and stop.

Has anyone tried the chord wizard for a tune off of a CD? How did it work? 2004 doesn’t do this very well. It puts in all kinds of wrong chords on a tune with multiple chords.
Thanks a bunch for any help and time spent on this,
Boo Hargis

.

>>>>..I didn’t have room to download the real drums...>>>

The real drums do take up quite a bit of hard drive space. I have found that I can get enough varieties of drumming to do what I want if I only use sets 1-5.

>>>...I assume they probably take quite a while to load also?...>>>

Its takes a few seconds to put together the drummer from the Real Drums loops. Less than 10 seconds for most songs.

Loading the Realsax and Realpedal takes quite a bit longer - more like half a minute. The programmers promise that an upcoming free update will show a big improvement in speed. These guys are real good at keeping their promises.

>>>>...Is the real sax and drums loading as a WAV file on the HD, and that is why it takes a while for them to load?...>>>

These instruments exist on your hard drive as a series of WAV-file loops of from 1-8 bars each. There are text files that instruct the program which loops to select and load as each song is created. It is this selecting and loading that is executed each time the song is regenerated. This is what causes the wait. The wait can be completely avoided by generating the song once, then choosing "replay" (not "play") so that you get the same "Real" part every time.

.

Hi Boo,
mine starts & stops immediately, even using real drums.
Currently I've got tht count in disabled.

Just tried it with th sax soloist demo took approx 5 seconds to generate from scratch.
Once it's loaded, when I press the play button, ( not replay) it's ready to go with the rest of the tracks.

The Real guitars seem to work differently
The Real Guitar demo takes approx 6-7 seconds for it to start. It regenerates everytime I press play. Stops immediately. If I press replay it starts & stops immediatly.
The Pedal demo took approx 11 seconds to generate.
It has Real guitar & Pedal steel.

The more "Real Instruments" in the song, & the length of the song, the longer it takes to generate.

I a one year old laptop.

XP Dell core duo 1.66ghz 2gig.

My BIAB2008 with all the Real Drums etc now takes up about 20 gigs of space.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by brickboo:
[B]

Hi Frank,
actually knowing that I'm nuts, or that I've ended up with 3 keyboards again. haahaa

best wishes
Rikki

Rikki, you can't play 3 keyboards at the same time.......or can you???

Hi Frank,
I possibly could if I midi them up.
SD1 melody voices with psr styles.
Or a combo of PA800 and the SD1.
The mind boggles. haahaa

Seriously though, as Dennis mentioned, the Ketron is nigh impossible to sell here in Australia, they're not well known, so why virtually give it away. I still enjoy playing it on occasions. The psr1500 again isn't worth a great deal & I do like a number of the styles. I'll just slowly convert some of them across to my PA800 & use the psr as a reference. One day I'll probably give it to the grandaughter if it's still working.
As much as I enjoyed my time with the softsynths, at times I found it a bit frustrating. Strangely I never quite had the same success with my new laptop as I did with the old.
I learnt an immense amount thanks to you & AJ. I didn't even know what a softsynth was, now I'm splicing BIAB audio drum loops to use in my PA800.
May even get to use some of the sounfonts I've collected & use them as wav files in the PA.

The Korg PA800 just seems perfect for me.
Haven't been so enthusiastic about a keyboard since my KN7000 a few years back.

best wishes
Rikki

Rikki, I am just having a little fun at your expense.

The important thing is that you are having fun combining technical know-how and making music. You contribute significantly to this forum with your knowledge in both areas.

Rikki, you are right that going the softsynth route can be frustrating. It requires considerable effort to setup the hardware and associated software. However, once that is done the sound and reliability are incomparable....simply the best....at least that is what I think.

Hi Frank,
I know.
Just thought I'd let you know though,that all the time & effort you put into helping me set up my softsynth/software arranger setup, didn't go to waste. I learnt an awful lot.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:
[B]Rikki, I am just having a little fun at your expense.

Hi,
talk about hijacking a thread. Sorry Dreamer.

One thing I'm glad I did do , on upgrading , was to actually get the disks posted as well as downloading some of the files online.

The Real Drums & Video manuals etc are huge.

I only have a limit of 1 gig peak time at 256kps & an addition 3 gigs from 1 am to
8 am which isn't very fast at the best of times, but more than adequate for forums , emails etc.

I evently managed to download the program itself, the real sax &guitars , and 8 of the new real drum sets. I've given up on the rest till I get my disks.

So keep it in mind if ordering, may be worth paying that bit extra for delivery just for peace of mind.
I've had a few frustrating nights downloading, but I got what I wanted.
PG were helpful & gave me an extended period to try & get as many drums downloaded as I could.

best wishes
Rikki