I must agree that knowing the keyboard and how to use it to its optimum is a lofty goal, but not everyone is interested in that goal. Don't put those people who want new equipment every few months into a generality bin. I found by buying the G70 that its OS is still the Roland OS of past arrangers. More features have been added and it may be easier or harder to do some things, but it is the same old Roland OS. The same goes for the Yammies. Once you've played one, playing another is a baby step in the learning curve. So, there might be something to say for upgrading within the same OS. Otherwise, practice is separate from ownership and should not be generalized as Diki has done - wqay too extreme a view for my tastes.

Ask yourself why do you upgrade from a TOTL keyboard last year to a TOTL keyboard this year ? I gaurantee it has nothing to do with the music you are making or could make or probably will ever make!

I'm not going to preach to anyone about how they spend their money. Its cool whatever you do with it. But i agree with CGiles. Its more about having excess cash than passion for music. Its just adult toys for alot of people.

Back to the original thread. I have never bought an instrument that i did not intend to keep or actual did not keep for several years. The best purchase i have made so far in anything was the PA1X which i have had for about 2.5 years.It continues to amaze me and i know i have prmised to post some stuff up in here and i will. I just want to see if the civility will hold.

Before that it was the yamaha PSR8000 which i had for about 4-5 years and now is being used to teach my nieces and nephews. That thing never let me down and still hols all the samples on it that i created nearly 8-9 years ago. I have never even changed the internal battery !

Before that it was the awesome Technics KN1000 Which is a better keyboard in terms of performance features, ease of use and adaptability today than some of its more technnologically advanced competitors. I gave it to my brother who used it to write various Gospel tracks as a profession, then passed down to my nephew who used it for 3 years before blowing the speakers !!

Thats it.

If i had the money would i have gone the gear lust route ???? Very likely !!!!

But in many ways i am glad i didnt.

Merry christmas everyone !

Well THIS thread certainly has some opinions that are veering dangerously OT.

(But what the hell - it's Christmas - and Synthzone - hee hee )

2 best things I ever bought? (both '07)

A. The Roland Cube Guitar Amp (for my Wife).

What a FANTASTIC little Guitar Amp. Digitally models all the famous Amps plus has an Acoustic Mode which makes your Electric sound almost exactly like a good Acoustic Guitar (with the Gain turned up) AND it has a plethora of FX (Phasing, Tremolo, Delay etc etc) all for $380 (Aust Dollars) - 30 watts and never had to mike it in ANY venue - big or small - we've played!!
(umm... keeper!)

B. The recently purchased PA1-X Pro Elite (got it for a stunning price brand new).

I always meant to post a mini review of this keyboard, but I've had too much fun playing it and spent too much time plumbing it's depths - DEEP depths. Possibly the most balanced arranger I've played - does Old stuff great, New Stuff great, and everything in between.

I recently went into a Major music store I rarely get to visit that has most boards.
I had a tinker with all the keybeds I could find - Yamaha's, Rolands, More Korgs, Workstations AND arrangers.
I was afraid I would like the other key actions better (as I bought the Pro "blind") and I was especially afraid to try the G-70 as I thought it would blow away the action of the Pro.

Being really truthful and honest here.

NOTHING felt as good to me as my Korg, not not even the G-70 *waits for Fran to come running to his PC with a pithy comment at the ready* which just goes to show you 2 things.
One, I was extremely lucky buying blind, and two, key feel is VERY subjective - what's tasty for one man is another man's poison.

(Keeper again).

I've actually had no real duds yet...

Diki, I've been away for several weeks and amazed to find you still throwing down the gauntlet about weight. Interesting that you don't say, "it's heavy, but i don't care" but instead you seem to be on the attack or defense against some phantoms because I don't see anyone arguing weight in this thread.

But as long as you choose to make an issue of it again, I must say it's annoying that u do. Nobody has ever taken issue with your choice of a 45-lb keyboard. those that choose NOT do go that route, like myself, have good reasons for it, and we do care about it, your "who cares"
notwithstanding.

My E60 has 76 keys same as G70 and has a great keyfeel too. Last we spoke you had not yet tried one, and perhaps
it might be pretty close to the feel of the G70? and yes, the G70 has the controller pedals and the mic input and several other features the E60 doesn't..but the E60 has loud speakers which come in handy for mobile practice and for monitors on many gigs. and it's much less than half the price and only 28 lbs and much thinner and sleeker and so much easier to tote and set up with no strain on the back or hernia areas etc. which is important to many of us, more important than the fact you think key feel should be the be-all and end-all.

Nobody begrudges you your pleasure in your G70. just don't begrudge us our reasons for NOT owning one, ok?


------------------
Miami Mo

Although I do agree with the most part You said, Diki, the above statement doesn't make a much of sense.

First of all an arranger keyboard is not an instrument, actually it's lot more than (one) instrument, whole orchestra (and even more).

The purpose of an arranger keyboard is to mimic the sound of many different instruments (and majority of them is not played by keys), and to mimic the performance of the whole band just by chords and buttons, and it's not an easy task to accomplish.

Horn player (or any other instrument player) doesn't have to improve his instrument in that way because his instrument already sound exactly as it is supposed to sound. This doesn't apply to the arranger because, for instance, sound of the guitar played on a keyboard from couple years ago, and the sound of the same instrument from todays arrangers (namely SA voices from Yamaha concerning the sound) are quite different (almost incomparable). So the quality of the sound is improving over the years, along with the controlling options for the sound not played with keys (velocity sensitive patches, guitar modes, ...)

The fact is that not even the most advanced keyboards of today don't have the most realistic sounds in all "departments", or "top of the line" styles, or any additional characteristics that would made an "ideal arranger keyboard", so You have to admit there is still lots of space (for manufacturers) to improve.

Of course, all the above said doesn't excuse anybody who don't take time to get to know his arranger keyboard deeply, and instead using all the capabilities of that arranger, buys new model to sound more convincing with less of knowledge.

The true is, good arranger player will always perform much better on an older arranger, then lousy player on the "top of the line" arranger model.

P.S. Everything written above is just my personal view of the matter discussed.

Two best musical purchases ever:
1. Selmer Mark VI Tenor Sax
2. Leslie 145 amplifier

Two worst musical purchases ever:
1. Yamaha DX-27 (It was all I could afford at the time)
2. Fender Chroma-Polaris (was constantly fixing broken keys and it weighed 40 pounds)

Notice my two favourites aren't electronic keyboards?

dan

I must say Mo made a good point about the G70's weight...several SZ members and a few of my new clients were inclined to give it up for a lighter instrument...in spite of it's keyfeel/keybed.

Q: Does that make them wrong?

A: Nope...just different priorities.

On the issue of upgrading too often...

BTW, guitarists are often worse than arranger players...MOST guitarists I know own, at the very least, two or three guitars and more than one amp...some own a lot more...and MOST of them are always looking for a way to get that elusive "sound"; i.e. different pickups, amps, speakers, strings, effects...the list goes on.

Horns and other acoustic instruments are in a completely different category than an arranger...kalimero put it very succinctly with this statement, "...instrument already sound exactly as it is supposed to sound..."

I'm pretty sure if Roland came out with a G80 (or whatever) arranger that thoroughly addressed the issues with the G70 that still haven't been fixed, there would be more than a few owners that would upgrade, even though the latter instrument is hardly that old.

Especially if it had a chord sequencer.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 12-24-2007).]

I suppose if Roland made a G70 Plus, only difference being a chord sequencer, no one would be interested.
DonM

hellboy44 said: 2 best things I ever bought? (both '07)

A. The Roland Cube Guitar Amp (for my Wife).
...more

Very interesting. I have been trying to interest my friend who owns a music shop into carrying the CM-30, but he balked because he sells so many of the Cube 30. With all the effects available on the Cube it's hard to pass up if you play guitar or use any guitar-type FX. I wonder if a CM-30 and Cube 30 duo would work? Anyone tried that yet?

As far as a best purchase EVER, for me it would have to be the Kurzweil Mark 5 Digital Ensemble sitting in the living room. It has great sounds and a fantastic keyfeel. My only regret is I didn't have the money to buy up to the Mark 10 with the arranger section.

[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 12-24-2007).]

I gotta agree here, Diki...playing with others adds a lot...I often do sessions with some good buddies who play guitar, Saxophone, and keyboards...it makes a difference, to be sure. I ALWAYS learn something from these collaborations.

AND...they do as well...especially playing along with the exact timing of an arranger...and how to "play off" the style.

Still, I prefer to work alone...I guess it's a control thing(as well as a better profit margin)...but there is no doubt that having another musical POV at regular intervals is valuable.

Ian