Just a curiosity question...

How many of you feel you have a good working knowledge of most or all of the features of your present keyboard?

I look at guys like Fran and others, who seem to be incredibly knowledgeable about their keyboards. They use them to their greatest capacity and potential, getting their kbd to work for them - and in return the kbd becomes a valuable tool, producing the music the player creatively envisions.

Those of us who are hobbyists may not take the time to realize the full potential of our kbd since it's more our hobby rather than our profession.

All that said - have you ever felt that you've outgrown your board - exhausted its use and were ready to move on up to the next level?

(Personally, the last time I ever felt that was with a little Roland EM10 - haha) Ever since that one, I feel I've only scratched the surface of the potential of every board I've had the privilege to own.

In a way, it's a shame, because I feel a need to grow into my keyboard - get more proficient in playing. But all too often I hit the wall of inability. Too bad there's no "Arranger Keyboard 102" or "Making the Most of Your S900" classes to help guys like me to improve. I think, for me, it probably is more of a musical ability rather than merely a mechanical know-how, but the two are inter-related when it comes to arr.kbds.

Sigh...OK, I'm done.
Tim

[This message has been edited by CoasterTim (edited 12-19-2007).]

http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/016629.html


like these?

Visit www.psrtutorial.com
You can learn most everything you need there. Maybe some stuff you don't need.

DonM

Yes, that's an awesome tool! That's what I'm talking about. Now...if only something like that existed for the S900.

Don,
Good suggestion. PSRtutorial is a very helpful site. Been there hundreds of times. Maybe I need to re-visit.

Tim

[This message has been edited by CoasterTim (edited 12-19-2007).]

Hi Tim
People learn best by doing, therefore when you have some spare time, do a quick backup, and then start pressing a few buttons etc, to see what happens.
If it gets totally messed up, re-load the back-up, if you find or learn something NEW then keep it.
Above all don’t be afraid to experiment.
Enjoy life, Enjoy you keyboard

Bill

First you find an itch... then you scratch it.

Generally, those who investigate and delve deeply into their arrangers are those trying to squeeze the most depth and expression out of their playing. If you are as satisfied as many make out with their 'favorites', there is perhaps less incentive to get down and dirty and mess with the finer points of style and sound editing.

I find a willingness to admit that there MIGHT be things that could be improved is the best way to work yourself towards improving them. Once you arrive at that place, the rest is usually just sheer doggedness and determination. It's amazing what you can do with patience and the manual!

The biggest mistake I see is players trying to bite off more than they can chew. Rather than try to grok a concept by attempting an entire piece of music, breaking it down into small steps, and only doing little 8 bar exercises speeds up the learning process. Want to make your own styles? Start by learning how to edit existing styles, perhaps by as simple process as combining existing styles first, then replacing just ONE Part, rather than choke at the start by trying to create an entire style from scratch.

Ditto sound creation, ditto sequence creation....

Baby steps get you there, giant leaps usually lead to crash and burn. Focus on just ONE task at a time, and don't stop until you have it firmly grasped. Then the next, etc., etc..

Keep at it, and it WILL get easier. I promise

A really easy way to start to develope your ability with an arranger keyboard is to edit an existing style. Go into the composer function on your yamaha and simply delete a track. Then try to play something in that track yourself. Change the sounds, Change the quantize rate, Add some additional percussion. Start playing with copying tracks from one group of styles to another. I promise you a whole new world of creativity will open up before you !!!

Dont try and learn every function of the keyboard in a week ! Decide that this month you are going to explore the composer function. And try and make something musical at the end of or during the process. Be even more specific, promise yourself that you are going to play with just the drum track in an existing style, substitute the kick drum from the existing drum family to say a funk or rock kit. See if you can increase the loudness of the hi hat by increaseing the velocity value.

Dont try and do everything at once. Remember you eat an elephant mouthful by mouthful. (never understood why people eat elephants but there ya go !)

Problem is, my desire to play is much stronger than my desire to tinker. As sophisticated a piece of machinery as a Ferrari is, I still just want to drive it, not work on it. I'm one of the ones guilty of only scratching the surface of a lot of my equipment, but I figure playing it well will get me a lot more applause than knowing it well (works with my wife ). I think one of the reasons for my return to my organ roots is the instruments simplicity (but also it's power, if played well). Hearing that down-in-the-dirt, Hammond grit as it screams over everything, gets my juices flowing a lot more than figuring out how to trigger an self-playing, wimpy, arrpeggio. But......if it inspires your playing, by all means, dig into it. Knowledge can never hurt.

chas

How many of you feel you have a good working knowledge of most or all of the features of your present keyboard?
Tim.

I would never but a computer or keyboard that I could master in three months. You learn enough to play your job or entertain yourself. The rest is a journey for those who love to learn and improve. For myself, I get bored when I have learned most of the keyboard.

In answer to Tim question...

I feel that most players know about 40% of the keyboard. The rest falls in between –I don’t need it – or I do not feel like putting in the effort. And I do appreciate those who just wanna play without digging and learning.

I must say one thing about the KN7000 I sold – Working, editing/creating a sequence or style was very friendly. I never grew tired of the styles because I changed them to fit what I was creating. I must now learn how to do the same with the S900. I guess I will have to use my Sonar/Cakewalk program, and that’s not very friendly.

John C.

Everyone's responses have been very enlightening and encouraging.

Thanks, guys
Merry Christmas

Tim

Tim, you've touched on an area that really concerns me. It's not just keyboards. At our company, I'm dealing with Mac and PC programs for graphics, film editing, statistical research, etc. Then, theres a variety of video equipment, editing decks, still cameras, recording equipment, plus the keyboards. It's not that the learning curve is so steep, it's just that there's so much to keep up with, and I don't have the time to learn as much about the keyboards and everything else as I need to know. I work over 100 hours per week and must rely on my people to learn the equipment and bring me up to speed on just what I need to know to get the results I need. I'm the shooter for video and film. I also do the graphics, and am the keyboard player. The time I have is devoted to producing the end product, but, with every passing day, I'm getting farther removed from
the job of mastering the equipment. That really worries me, but, luckily, my son is my IT man. He's also a bass player, and keeps my music going by doing the research and letting me step in at the last minute to make the final decisions about programming, etc.


In keyboards alone, I'm looking at a Midjay, G-70, Casio WK-8000, SH-201, GW-7...all less than 6 months old and not utilized to the fullest.

Looks like things will get worse. Technology is GREAT, IF you can devote the time to master the equipment. I simply don't have the time.

And that is a BIG concern...


Russ

Russ,

That was a thought-provoking post. This techno-overload can only go so far. Makes one wonder what technology will do to save us from technology!

Tim

The problem is that many of us overload ourselves with a multitude of equipment we understand very poorly, rather than sticking to a couple of well-chosen pieces of kit, and getting intimate with them.

Truth be told, those of us with a half dozen keyboards or more could strip it down to two, and probably not lose an iota of sound possibilities. Most modern keyboards, arranger AND workstation, are so good and versatile that with patience and programming they are capable of just about anything you want. But we have this tendency to get just ONE more, just for this or that sound (which could probably be gotten close to on a keyboard we already own). and quickly end up swamping ourselves with manuals and confusing contrary OSs, that take very different paths to the same end.

Probably for all but those working at the highest levels in recording, one TOTL arranger and one TOTL workstation ought to be capable of just about anything our twisted minds can come up with... And mastering just two pieces of kit is a LOT easier than wrestling a big rig into submission.

I recommend they be from different manufacturers, to maximize your sonic pallet - maybe a G70 and a Kurzweil (my choice at the moment), or a PA2X/800 with a MotifXS, maybe an S900 with a Triton for those on a budget. If you can't make very professional sounding music with just the two, adding more is probably not going to help!

Avoid 'manual overload' and you get an awful lot more done!

Good advice, Diki. My concern is adding the mastering of all the other work tools we need in our business. I estimate that this would be a 40 hour per week job, given the upgrades constantly going on. My time is spent creating the work.

For now, my only solution is to hire people I trust to learn and assist with the massive learning curve.

Someday, I'll slow down and have the time to
concentrate solely on music, although, I really like film production, writing, research design, graphics and being a college level professor equally well. Dread the time when I'll have to slow down, but it's gonna happen way too soon, I suspect. I NEVER want to retire!


Ho, Ho, Ho, everyone!


Russ

osmosis - works for me. If not, I soon find another keyboard.

Osmosis? That's GREAT!

R.

Cass, my respect for you grows daily .

chas

From my perspective, I suspect that 90 perent of keyboard owners, both arranger and synth, know little or nothing about the inner working of their keyboards and associated operating systems. Most like what they hear, and this is a good thing. And, I agree with Diki, most could easily get along with one or two keyboards, especially if they took the time to learn the inner workings and operating systems.

Today's keyboards are incredible tools. The instrument sounds are so realistic they're beyond description, the styles are phenominal, and anyone that sincerely believes they can master all the aspects of a high-end keyboard in three months or less is either a genius or full of sh*t. In most instances, the keyboard is far more capable of performing more tasks than the performer could ever dream of. The onboard programs alone are fantastic tools that are rarely used, let alone utilized to their fullest.

In the three years I've owned the PSR-3000 I still have yet to use every tool the keyboard has to offer. And, it's not the top of the line board. The S900 has several more features, and owners that procurred the board when it was first introduced have yet to scratch the surface of what this keyboard is capable of doing.

So, how well do you really know your keyboard? I'll have to let you know the answer to this question when I run out of questions to answer. After three years I'm still in learning.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

The thing is,if you just let go of the technology lust even for just a couple of years, we would become both better aquainted with our instruments AND better musicians. The two feed off each other. New is not always better and even if it genuinely is better it doesnt make us play any better.

The best way is to never change your board, then you will not loose any feature, or need to learn a completely new OS, you can then just update it with the latest technology, sounds and features pretty much unlimited.
But most important “Enjoy whatever you play”

Bill

Spalding
What you say is certainly correct from a technical standpoint. However, when bringing in the human element into the equation, some people seem to need a new piece of equipment to rekindle their fervor.

Case in point, I have had my KN7000 for four years and certainly am not proficient at getting the most from it. Knowing this, I try and revisit my manual, but it is the same old keyboard, however good. I buy a PA800, ostensibly for a backup. First of all, I'm amazed at the advance in technology in four years, making it easier and faster to accomplish things in performance. I now am fired up again and begin learning all I can.

Does it make me a better player ? Only if I put this new unbridled passion to work on honing my skills. In other words, it is a mental state of mind that acts as a catylist to some, including myself.

I hear you Bernie and there is no denying that a new toy can fan the flames of creativity but how much of what the PA800 does could your KN7000 also do ? I am guessing about 80%. What if someone did a DVD instructional tool that showed you how to do 50- 60% more using the same features already onboard your KN7000 in a musical way ? Would you spend 50-60 even $100 to get inspired again or spend another $2000 on another instrument to do pretty much what you were doing before ? From the feed back we have had so far, individuals are being inspired all over again by the same instrument they have been playing for the last two-3 years (PA1X DVD) simply because they are seeing new ways of using the instrument and learning what the instrument is capable of.

We all get inspiration from somewhere but there has to be a cheaper better way than buying a new instrument whenever we get in a dry patch.

Great topic. I'd say I know about 30% of what my Yamaha Clavinova can do and that's pushing the upper limit. And with the Korg Pa800 I recently purchased I'm about scratching the surface.

As Gary Travlineasy, said "I suspect that 90 perent of keyboard owners, both arranger and synth, know little or nothing about the inner working of their keyboards and associated operating systems. Most like what they hear."

From my view, I just want to play and concentrate improve playing skills vs. spending many hours learning an OS. I often wonder where my actual piano playing skill and technique would be if I spent the time practicing instead of trying to create, Songbooks, Registrations, Renamed Styles, Reworked Styles. etc etc. However, I will say it can be more fun doing that the the discipline required for concentrated practice.

Hey Guys

This is a great topic. Haven't posted anything on this forum for a while now.

I currently own a Tyros 2, and very happy with it. The Keyboard which I use on my gigs ina PSR 7000! (what I hear you cry! ), but i've use this great board for many years, and know very in depth features it has to offer (such as the voice creater/regestrations/dsp effects etc), it does the job for residential homes . I would say I know more about the features on the 7000 than the tyros 2 at the momement.

When you have really explored a board, I feel that tasks especialy on live situations become a breeze. even tweaking something on the spare of the moment, its a great feeling.

The beauty of staying with a certain brand is that you learn a common OS and when you do decide to upgrade to a newer model, there is a much smaller learning curve.

I would say I know my PSR-S900 arranger very well...mostly because it is part of my job to know it in depth, but also I enjoy digging in to explore it's vast capabilities.

Ian

True enough, but in my case, I had just one 4 yr old board and needed to know I have a working instrument at all times. Since Technics is out of business, I made a good choice. The advantage for me is that upon learning the PA800, I have the best of both worlds. For example, I have hundreds of registrations set up in the KN7000 that are geared for big band, for one. Conceivably, one could take either keyboard, depending on the occasion. However, I admit that eventhough I might need a backup, I developed gear lust.
Bernie