Hi guys, after being a long time synth user i've decided I just want to have fun and play music. At the moment i've got a Triton Extreme 76, which has a very similar (maybe the same)keybed as the Tyros 2/PSR9000. I'm very torn between the Tyros 2 and the Korg PA800 however. I am leaning more towards the Korg I think, but I have one problem. I've tried the T2 out and as I say the key feel is very similar to the TE which I like, but nowhere near to me stock the PA800's. I also tried a PA1X and a G70 last year and both had fantastic key feel.
If PA800 has the same cheap Fatar rubbish that they use in the lower end arrangers and synths I would not be interrested at all. Over the years i've found that Korgs have very poor quality keys and buttons, especially on lower end boards.
Please put me out of my misery and tell me exactly what the PA800's are like in terms of keybed/button quality.
Many thanks in advance

Honestly.....its All a matter of personal opinion...
I love the PA800 keyfeel on mine, I like a lighter touch....you'll probably hate it judging by your post......this is something you have to decide for yourself by playing them..not by listening to others.

Good luck keep us posted on what you decide on.

This may not help, and I'm not trying to be churlish, but even if you're "just having fun" with music, I don't know why you'd go FROM a 76 note keybed TO a 61.

I personally think you'll have trouble finding a decent 61 note keybed with your required feel.

Stick with a board that offers 76 notes and you'll find your choice a lot easier.

(only My Humble O. & My Two Cents)

Yoshi, I recently went from a Tyros2 to a G70 back to a Tyros2 and now the Pa800. The PA800 has a very light touch. I don't care for a light touch, but the PA800 has enough great features for me to overlook the light touch. As DNJ said you gotta really play one yourself and make a decision.

Thanks very much for all of your replies
I found your reply especially helpful Stephen, I think I probably wouldn't like the feel of the keys judging from what you have said. The reason I wanted to go for the PA800
hellboy was that I like the idea of an all-in-one keyboard, with it's own speakers. The triton could sit up it's corner for serious sequencing, and the PA to move around and play. I reckon i'll have to go and have a good think about things now, and start saving more pennies lol.
Possibly a PA2X if I can find one for the right money in the UK...
Thanks again guys, much appreciated

YOshi,

of all the arranger I have played and owned, the Roland G-70 and the Korg PA2X Pro have to me the best key feel. The difference is that the Korg as a heavier action (almost piano-like) so, if you plan to play a lot of organ sounds, the keys could hurt your fingers if you do a lot of smears.
Speaking of synth-like action, the Tyros 2 has an excellent keyfeel.
I have never played a PA-800, so cannot comment on this.

I agree with you 100% there Dreamer. I have tried both G70 and PA1X myself and have to say the key feel is absolutely fantastic on both (PA2X is same as 1X I imagine). I think the keybed in either of those is a great compromise also between keyboard and piano. I think as it stands a PA2X is probably the one for me. Thanks for your reply

If you like the Tyros 2 sounds and features, and also want good speakers, you might consider the Yamaha PSR S900. It only has 61 notes, and the lighter key feel though.
Seems there is always compromises to be made.
DonM

Actually DonM i've had a bit of a rethink and slept on it. I think as long as the PA800 is well made and the keys are made to last I will still get one. If I bought a PA2X I would have to get rid of the TE76, because there would no longer be room for it. If I got the PA800 however I could keep both as it's portable and has it's own speakers.
Can anyone comment on the actual build quality of the PA800, are the buttons quite good and the keys feel like they will last (not loose or very cheap)?
Sorry to be a nuisance I just want to be sure , thanks again

find a store 30-45 day return warranty

Miden is returning a PA2X in this post http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/016678.html

In it he remarks on the PA2x having quite a different feel to the PA1X. You might want to check this out before you 'assume' that they are the same...

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 12-24-2007).]

Ahhh thanks a lot for that Diki, that puts a new light on things. If the PA2X key feel isn't vastly different to the PA800 it's not really worth getting one. Maybe they're both using the same keybed as the new M3's, which feel quite light (similar to PSR's but better). Any ideas anyone exactly what keybeds korg are using in the newer range?

Build quality of the PA800 seemed very good to me. I liked the key feel - very sturdy.
DonM

Thanks Don
I was a bit confused whether the light feel people had described was light and cheap feeling like a PSR, or light but well made. I'm pleased to hear it's the latter, these are sounding more and more like the board for me.

Yoshi, just be sure you are happy with the sound before purchasing. Good luck with your decision. All the new arrangers are great! Just in different ways.
DonM

This probably won't help much, but the keybed of the PA800 is very similar (if not identical - I couldn't see any difference) to that found in the StudioLogic SL161 (i.e. a Fatar keybed) - except the PA800 has non-weighted keys as opposed to the semi-weighted ones on the SL161. Not sure if this is what you are referring to as the cheap Fatar keybeds.

The other closest comparison I could make is that it is similar to the keybeds in the PA80 and Karma keyboards. The quality of the keyboard is good but for me it is very different from say the PA1X-pro (76 key) or G70 keybeds.

When you say PA1X do you mean the 61 or 76 key version, because they both have distinctly different keybeds and consequently keyfeel but both are also very nice semi-weighted keybeds and again to my feel a notch above the PA800.

Paul.


[This message has been edited by paulgee (edited 12-25-2007).]

Hi Paul, you've answered my questions exactly thank you
When I said PA1X I did mean the pro yes, not the 61 key PA1X. The keybed you're describing is exactly what I was asking about. The Fatar bed from the Karma,PA80,Triton LE,N364 etc, the one I really hate lol. I was really hoping it would have the Triton/Triton Extreme keys which are very similar to the Tyros 2. I asked around and apparently the PA2X has got the same keybed as the PA1X pro, this is the one for me i'm sure. Many thanks again for all replies to my spamming, and thank you Paul for finally clarifying things for me once and for all

Man am I glad that I am an organist. I can use any keyboard and not have a problem with 61 keys and any keyfeel. I can judge a keyboard by its sound and features and not care in the least about keyfeel.

Tom

For me personally Tom, I can play fine on any keys, obviously piano needs a more weighty feel though to be expressive. My issue is one of quality, over the years i've had a few Korg synths with the cheaper Fatar bed, and random keys either stop responding or get stuck at 100% velocity. When you are paying £1500+ for an instrument (which takes a lot of saving) you expect proper quality, otherwise you might as well make do with a £300 PSR. I wish Korg and especially Yamaha would realise this, and make a quality keybed a priority in their medium/high end range. I would never buy a PSR-S900 purely for this reason, although I think it's a fantastic board otherwise. I am probably just showing my age, I remember when everything was made to last, and a synth was built like a tank lol.

Lightness, once it is better than PSR, is not too much of a problem to compensate for. But key SHAPE and lack of 'wobble' or bounce CAN make quite a difference to your playing.

Shape makes a big difference in that some synth keybeds have smallish black keys compared to a piano, some even have shorter white keys too... Shape also effects ease of doing smears and glisses if you play a lot of organ style. Keys with sharp corners and edges, and piano shaped white keys, with the little overhang that real piano keys have, can make palm smears much more difficult, your hand can get caught up on the corners.

And then lack of 'wobble' or any sideways play in the key really effects these smear tactics (!), and gives a clue to quality of construction, and likeliness of durability problems.

Finally, key 'bounce', or the tendency to repeat a note if the note is 'flicked' (such as a grace note) can be a problem. Many makers forget the key needs damping well at the TOP of the travel as well as the bottom!

If your skill level is high enough, all of these things CAN make a difference in how well you can actually play. Sure, you CAN sit down at just about anything with black and white so-called 'keys', and bang out a tune. But don't let anyone persuade you that it makes NO difference. For the better players, or those aspiring to improve, don't discount how well the action works as a factor in how well you can play... Ask any pianist, and the action, and how well it is regulated in a piano, is JUST as important as how in tune it is..!

Why should WE have any lower standards? You don't actually PLAY an arranger. You play it's KEYBED. It is where the 'rubber meets the road'. Don't dismiss it's importance...

Well said Diki, my sentiments exactly. I don't profess to be a great or even a good player (I get by), but it's hard to progress beyond a certain standard on poor quality keys. It is only because we all just accept the low quality of our boards that they stay this way. I've noticed a steady decline in the quality of keyboards/synths over the last few years. If they sell like hotcakes anyway, why should companies waste profit making them better?

Hi Diki,

I like that , "you play the key bed" , so true !!

Sounds like you have a real fine handle on various KB`s , would you care to chime in on the E-80 !

Thanks

Take care,
Gary 

Never even seen one, sadly...

I don't set much stock in anyone else's opinions, on something as subjective as key touch (or even sound, for that matter). There is only ONE way to know what something sounds like, or feels... You've GOT to try it for yourself.

Thanks anyway Diki , as far as trying one , I wish I could.

No one wants to stock any E-80`s in my area,

Take care ,
Gary 

Hi guys, sorry to be a complete nuissance but....
I managed to try out a Korg M3 the other day, they had no PA800/2X's so I couldn't try these. However I really liked the M3 key feel even though it was light. The guy in the shop said the PA800 definately has the same keybed. Can anyone shed any light on this and confirm that the PA800 has the M3 keybed in it, or was this guy lying to get a sale?
Thanks again

Thank you for replying Bernie, i've tried googling for an answer aready though and came up with nothing lol. I'm sure someone, somewhere has both or has tried both though

Hi Yoshi,

I played Roland G1000 and VA76.
Then PA1Xpro for three years and now since
a month a PA2xpro.
The Roland keybed was fine. So is PA1XproBu and PA2Xpro. The PA2Xpro is a little heavier that PA1Xpro. (half-weighted)
In my opinion Tyros 2 is fine, but synth-like.
In my opinion PA800 is not as well-built as Tyros 2.

Another thing you must know:
Many users that intensively used the sample functions of PA800 on OS1.51 have problems.
The board freezes or give error-messages.
When you use the sample capabilities of PA800, you'd better stay at OS1.o, until Korg supports a bugfixed OS.

ON PA2Xpro OS1.0 there are also some bugs, but many less that PA800.

Don't scare yourself too much when reading recent posts on www.korgforums.com > korgpa800-PA2xpro. There are serious bugs, mostly in the sample section, but I'm sure Korg will solve the soon.

As a happy Korg-user I can tell you really can count on Korg, providing many free OS-updates, even until 3 years after introduction of the board.

In your case, I think I would buy (when it has got to be a Korg) a PA2Xpro with a pair of active studio monitors.
On the PA2Xpro the dual MP3 player, 128 MB sample Ram and 40GB harddisk are standard included, and the construction and design (in my humble opinion) is much more classier that the PA800.

But, I also used to be happy with the 76 note keybeds of the Rolands.
Maybe Roland will introduce a G70 replacement soon?

They do not share the same keybed..

Fran thank you, I suspected the guy was just trying to con me into a quick sale.
Rene thank you very much for your in depth and very informative post. I see now that the PA800 is definately not for me, and that the PA2X is well worth the extra money and sacrificing the speakers. I think I will definately go for the PA2X now after reading all the available info on the two. Thank you all very much for all your help, it has been a huge help.