What's your opinion? What other boards did you consider? Pro/cons? Price? Locations?

i have an e60.
is a great keyboard. for this price class, it's hard to beat.
it really did not have serious competition to me. i love the fact it has 76 keys and it's still pretty light.
also, the fact that has alot of the g70 features in it made it a winner in my eyes.
for me the price was one of the main factors when i choose my equipment. that's why, i really considered alot before making a decision. i made the right decision!

the other "opponents" are psr s900 (at that time was psr 3000 and korg pa50 - but i owned this one, so it was no serious alternative).
the keyboard is not perfect. could be easily improved by future OS releases, but i can only wait and see. but is well build, good keyfeel, good sounds, very good styles, is inspiring and i feel good playing it.

i searched the internet alot. ALOT. i found good prices, all in US. but also some in uk, where i finally bought it from. i am in romania/europe, so, US was no option for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-b80hqk91s

huuuuu!

what an old video! i really need to update!

I bought E60 last spring. Just recently purchased a Korg Pa 800 and gave the E 60 to my son.
Sequencer = good, better than Pa 800 because you can lay down backing in the record function then record your right hand part on any empty tracks (usually at least 8) or overdub on any in sequencer. E60 is limited in the editing in sequencer (such as effects, etc.)

style creator = easy to use, but is tricky to get the timing of drum or sound just right.

Sounds = Okay, but definitely not as good as the Pa 800. More shallow in E 60. (I have played accordion all my life, and the accordion sounds just suck on the E 60; the Pa 800 really shines here.)

styles = good on E 60, just not enough of them.

Keep in mind I'm comparing a mid-price-range keyboard (E 60) to a higher-end keyboard (Pa 800), and this is just my opinion. Bottom line = I love the Pa 800; in over four months with the E 60, I never "fell in love with it."

Why hasn't George Kaye answered my email?

Since I owned a G70, what things would I still like and what things might I not like?

Cass,
I answered your email on January 2. I just looked it up in my sent mail. However, I just answered your email again.
I have 1 E60 left for sale that is a "B" stock unit.


------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

I figured as much, that you replied. Somehow it got lost and never made it to my mailbox, but I have the second mail. I've replied. Thanks.

OK everyone, the PSR 3000 is up for sale. Immaculate, with SM card, AC, music rack, manuals, goodies. EMAIL ME ASAP.

cassp50@gmail.com

[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 01-04-2008).]

cassp, i have been playing the E60 for a few months. before that i had an is35 from the classic korg i-series and a Technics kn2600. the E60 has some very serious shortcomings in its price range, but it strengths are unmatched.

at 28 lbs in a sleek design, it is a delight to just pick up and carry under your arm and lay on your back seat. no having to case/uncase, go on roller etc. the 76 keys make so many things easier and more pleasurable re piano, splits, layers, etc. i enjoyed my 61 before but now i am so spolied by 76 i won't go back. the key action is excellent.
it has really improved my touch. some things are very easy to accomplish and navigate, like changing sounds, mixer, etc. the cover feature is very cool. styles are limited but
i only use bass/drums and most blend nicely in the
background and are not intrusive, just supportive.

on the other hand, the tap tempo button, after an os
stability improvement, is no longer a horror but it is NOT
accurate..i never had this problem with Technics or Korg.
there is no mic input, you can only program one of the
pedals since the sustain is only sustain. and there is no
option for multipedals. the live navigation is sadly inadequate, there are so many "junk" buttons that could have been assigned to more useful purpose.

this is not a middle-of-the-road board. I happen to love its strengths so much i adjust and live with the weaknesses. there is nothing in its class that is anywhere as good as the E60 is..or anywhere as bad as the E60 is.

------------------
Miami Mo

Thanks, Mo. Having owned two current Roland arrangers, I can add that Roland is pretty good at mixing the best with the worst. I'm really interested in George's last E-60, but I have to know my 3K is sold before I can commit that much moolah for another Roland.

did you ebay the 3k already?

No, SZ only. I'll wait til Tuesday and then decide if I want to sell or keep.

George Kaye seems to be the only one on the SZ who has or knows of an E-60 for sale. I'm still interested, but must first sell my PSR3000.

So, if anyone has an E-60 for sale or is interested in my 3K, please drop me a line.

Cass, just get the cash out of the freezer and tell George to ship your E-60...No one has them to even look at..only CK dealers and they don't have to stock them..They rather double the investment and sell pianos

Exactly, Fran!

This is Roland's tragic mistake (one that I've heard rumors they are changing)... to relegate the entire arranger division to dealers that didn't want them, knew nothing about them, and weren't even mandated to carry them for the public to see.

A recipe for failure that a child could have foreseen. Apparently, not the doofuses at RolandUS, though...

It's not that the arrangers are bad, but they get seen and heard by so few that, firstly, 'sight unseen' is a game few (other than certain SZ members ) like to play, and secondly, they are getting into the hands of so few players that some of the OS blunders aren't being complained about by sufficient numbers to get much corporate attention and subsequent fixing. This is not to say that tremendous progress hasn't already been achieved, but a few niggles are left, and not apparently important enough to get Roland's admittedly very short attention span...

But you take almost ANY product, make it more expensive than before, and don't exhibit to the general public, and I guarantee it will wither on the vine. Roland have found this out to their cost...

As to the rumors you state, well, the return of the Chord Sequencer will make it a 'must buy' for me, but all the rest of that cr@p is just almost useless. Especially an eight track audio recorder. Sheesh, what are they thinking? Anyone that can afford something in this price range already HAS (or knows they can get) a FAR superior DAW out of their existing computer, with infinitely better editing and plug-ins. But no doubt, Roland will jump on the 'me-too' bandwagon instead of concentrating on making the ultimate ARRANGER, and they will continue to graft little-needed workstation functions onto a little improved arranger OS.

When will they ever learn... We don't need a studio in a box. We need a great ARRANGER.

Cassp, have you actually played a Roland E-60?

If not, you certainly are a gambling man.

Good luck.

Ian

This would all be eliminated if Yamaha would produce some 76 key arrangers for those who like them talk about not being in touch with the customers!

Why would you say that, Donny?

Just like my homey, Bob Seger, I'm a ramblin', gamblin' man.

I agree, Diki, but the problem is that Roland will have to have the same features as the opposition in order to compete.

You can bet they have some idea that Yamaha will increase the power(and tracks) of it's onboard Audio to USB recorder and Korg has the MP3 player already.

Too bad these things weren't options...for example, I don't require the mic input or the vocal harmony for my work...never gets used...but I have to take it, as the SA voices are only on the S900 in that series.

Ian

Yep, it is a gamble, but I do hope it works out well for you Cassp.

It's too bad some places don't carry certain arrangers...for example, I have yet to try a PA-800 as my local dealer will not carry them...they just bring Roland and Yamaha arrangers.

Hopefully the E-60 will be the cat's pyjamas.

Ian

I don't think this is catchup... No arranger (short of software ones) records more than two tracks, yet. I just think it is Roland cannibalizing their workstation line for the 'WOW!' factor, rather than going back to their roots and figuring out what arranger players REALLY want (or need!).

The Roland-arranger.com 'Suggest New Features' forum http://www.roland-arranger.com/smf/index.php?board=2.0 is a repository of what ACTUAL Roland users want and need, a three year old focus group that Roland could mine for ideas that would resonate with their user base. Do you think there is even ONE person asking for an 8-track recorder in there?? No... you are right. NOT ONE.

Tons of other, less glamorous stuff (and some pretty cool ideas, too!) that would make us happy, but no multi-track audio. Maybe the OCCASIONAL request for an mp3 player, or a two track audio recorder, a la Yamaha, etc., but no DAW requests at all...

They did this before, with OS2's Guitar Mode... Ignored pleas for improvements to navigation, storage and operational parts of the OS, and gave us a feature that NO-ONE asked for, and STILL doesn't work except as a realtime gimmick. Unlike Korg, Roland never bothered to figure out that this is going into an ARRANGER. We are going to want to use it primarily to get better guitar ACCOMPANIMENT, not as a solo feature.

Morons...

Does anyone have an E-60?

I will have one this Friday

oh fran,i thought you meant the last weekend getting it.
now, my question to you from the other forum makes no sense...
hm... must be the time zone difference!

Adi I just seen your question..ask me again after the weekend..

I don't have an E60, but I borrowed HankB's E50 last night. I had some left-over G70 User Programs and was able to use some of them, pluse all the styles from G70.
I took it to the job and used it all night.
I got nothing but WOW's from the audience.
They loved the sound. I wish it had a vocal processor/harmonizer and a few other things (such as break/fill, multipads, text file capability). It sounds great, is small and lightweight. Some of you wouldn't like the key feel, but it's perfect for me--light and responsive.
Just an experiment.
DonM

I was under the impression you were going to buy one from George Kaye, Cassp...did that change?

Ian

Ian, I was trying to rein in the conversation and get back to the original topic. Yeah, George had (has) one left that I'd like to buy, but I can't afford it without selling the 3K. I had one inquiry, but as you noted on Small Gig, my price is on the high end of the spectrum.

In my defense - FOR THOSE INTERESTED IN THE 3K - I am shipping it free and including a USB flash drive and a SmartMedia card filled with styles and midis. But it doesn't look like I'll be making a deal soon.

Maybe I can buy Fran's in a couple months after he tires of it


[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 01-09-2008).]

Sounds like a distinct possibility...if we go by his track record of late.

Ian

BTW...I tried the E60 last December(06) whilst on a demo tour...very nice keyboard action...seems a bit lighter than the G70, but still has a classy feel to it...you'll like it.



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-09-2008).]

Maybe just a matter of a few days..

BTW:..My track record always has a purpose...and I seldom lose money..if ever..

Hey, Fran...you're havin' fun and trying out new stuff...nothing wrong with that.

Ian

Cass -

Have you ruled out the S900? It sure is a terrific board I get more out of it as the months go on......the audience absolutely loves it.

zuki

I guess I will possibly be the only one that owns a G70 and a E-60 , in a couple days...I should be able to get a good comparison that others may find useful..

BTW: I am also negotiating another deal on a G1000..

Also, for you guys that wonder how my wife allows me the freedom to buy expensive toys....It's easy..I got her a diamond ring.. ..instead of a PA800 [she didn't want the Korg anyway]..

fran,
even better, why dont you tell us how you do to get the money for the diamond AND the expensive toys...

i never manage to do both of these... so, not many expensive toys for me! hehehe

I can't say that the S900 was ever a consideration. It's 61-keys and basically a newer 3K. I like the 3K, but I want 76 keys. I liked the G70, but not enough to keep it. The G70 seems like a good compromise, if I can get one.

Cass the G70 IMO was your best bet for all your needs ....they're out there if you look ;D

Donny, you may be right, but it's water under the bridge at this point. I was really disappointed with the drawbar section, maybe more than I should have been. And the awkward weight was an issue for me too. I'm happy with what I now have, but thought an E-60 might be an even better set-up. Anyway, it looks like I'll be keeping the 3K at least until Fran donates the E-60 to me.

Please don't make me say I miss the G70, because in many ways I do. Would I buy another, probably not. But, it's the best arranger I've ever owned. Then you have to remember I'm not just an arranger player either.