This is really a question for G-70 owners..I want to ask about the quality and reality of the electric guitar (overdrive and distortion) and the basses on the G-70? I cannot get much from the demos, and thought I would ask some people who have used them in live situations.
Thanks
Dennis

Needed to edit because I forgot one...Also how would you compare the harmoniser to either the SD1 or the Yamaha? I have used both of those so I can get an idea of what the g-70 one is like.

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 01-04-2008).]

Dennis, I think the guitars are very realistic ( they still need to be played correctly], and as for the distortion..don't forget you have insert effects available...and who has better guitar effects than Boss/Roland..

I have heard and played all of the harmonisers..and the Roland is in a class of it's own...both quality and flexibility..not Ketron, not Yamaha. not Korg..not Gem, not Digitech..and not TC Electronics...Some of these are good..but Roland is still the best..

Besides where are you going to find a "Scat" sound other than the Roland..

Forgot about the basses...Some of the best...I have great musician friends that grew up loving the Moog for bass...guess what brand they use for bass today even though they play Korg PA1X Pro..yep that's right..XV5080 to be precise..

Thanks Fran
Thats pretty much what I had heard from people out here..Operationally it seems a lot better in what it can do than either the Ketron or the Korg..Things that I need in a board, and were not present in the pa2.
Cheers
Dennis

A counter opinion from someone that DOES own a G70...

Yes, the G70 guitars are very good, and the amp sim can make them even better, BUT... compared with a T2 or S900, if electric rock guitars are going to be your main thing, and you want to have great electric parts IN THE STYLE, and great basses too, Yamaha's guitars are better, IMO (plenty of user demos and factory stuff out there for you to make your own decision, in fact).

This is not to say they are necessarily better arrangers, but in that particular area, I'll definitely give the nod to Yamaha. The Mega voices in their styles have much better articulations. Me, I use a guitarist, so it isn't the deciding factor in an arranger, but I have to admit, were I solo all the time, the T2 would be a much more competitive arranger even with the lack of a 76. Not necessarily my final choice, but it WOULD get more of a consideration than it gets now...

The harmonizer universally gets the nod over Yamaha and Ketron, matched only by the Korg's.

Thanks Diki,
Actually about 65-70% of what I do is via midi and soon, my own recorded MP3's, with me playing all the keyboard and synth parts and the occasional left-hand bass+keyboard for variety. So the guitars in styles are not really critical, and not being a guitarist and playing solo, and playing a lot of what we call "Pub-Rock" I need excellent electric guitars.
The yamaha motif ES series has excellent guitars but I don't own the motif anymore so I guess it's that standard I am looking to get close to.
Roland do make excellent smf players..and you have given the G-70 such big wraps in the past and I reckon you know a bit about what you are talking about . I did get a brief play of an early G70 and the keyboard feel is the best I have played outside weighted keybeds.
The PA2x wasn't in the groove for me, but the G70 might be.
I am trying to get as much info as I can.
BTW Diki have you used the harmoniser on the G70 and if so can I ask your thoughts on it?
thanks
Dennis

Diki (or others),
sorry another one...What have you made of the Song Make-Up Tools? do they work as well as they sound in the manual in real terms?
Thanks
Dennis

PS..I should have mentioned this earlier, as an apology to Diki, sorry m8, I didn't mean to disregard your views on the Tyros, and I do agree, it certainly sounds exceptional, but the 61 keys is a certain deal-breaker!!!..Now, if they put one of their excellent weighted keybeds, or even a decent 76 note keybed, that's a whole new ballgame!!

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 01-06-2008).]

Well, if you MUST have a 76, your choices are limited...

G70, E60 (but a little limited, especially in the guitars - no insert effects), PAX or Ketron (and I'm sure abacus will point you to several others that cost $7k+, but you don't sound like cost is of no concern!!)...

Ketron does have the mp3 player, but some sounds are a little long in the tooth. Korg's new PA2Xpro sounds like a good one, good Guitar Mode (Korg's can be used in Style Mode, Roland is live play only) but limited fills (3 compared to Y's 6 and R's 7). G70 is heavy, in many senses of the word! Brilliant piano, B3 and drums, but no mp3 player.

For what you sound like you need, I'd give the PA2Xpro and the G70 most of my attention.

And forget the harmonizer. No matter HOW good, they ALL make you sound like cheese! I haven't heard a demo on ANY keyboard yet that I thought the vocals were realistic with the harmonizer. A pretty sick gimmick, IMO (but I'm not trying to cheese out like some here). Once again, try before you buy. This 'feature', once you realize it's limitations and uninspiring sound, may not turn out to be so important as you think it is.

For me, my priorities are inspiring drums first, inspiring piano second, and inspiring B3 third. This makes the G70, despite it's weight and no mp3 player the perfect choice FOR ME... It's not perfect for many, but my priorities are mostly sonic and tactile, rather than convenience, so it works great as an arranger AND a 'live band' main keyboard.

BTW, you REALLY want to tie yourself down to audio files that will probably stay with you LONG after you've moved on to better keyboards? Most don't bother with completely re-doing ALL their mp3's EVERY time they move to another arranger, so 75% of what your audience hears is the old arranger you got rid of. (But if you DO go the MP3 route, why not hire a REAL guitarist to play on the recordings, and make the arranger's guitar sounds moot?)

Bottom line.... ALL of your choices are FAR too expensive to purchase without a good trying out. Don't make the mistake many make and end up with buyer's remorse (and a hefty re-stocking fee!). PLAY it, and LOVE it before you buy.

Hi Miden

Roland are releasing a new top arranger this year (Winter Namm or Frankfurt) with better sounds than the G-70 and some new futures.

Tin

Thanks Diki.
I have already tried and rejected the PA2x, not from a sound POV (apart from the electric guitars) but from an operational POV. Some parts of its op sys are the same as the original PA1X op sys 1.00!!!
The Roland has things like markers and txt lyrics scroll, song make-up and style from midi, which seems on the surface to be a lot more user-friendly.
Your idea about maybe paying a guitarist for a few sessions to record some beds for various tunes has some merit, even to the point of saying oh duh!! why didn't I think of that...simple and easy.
So i might investigate that further.
Then the mp3 option works because the sound is never going to change, in which case I can look at the Kurzweil PC1se and it has a fully weighted keybed in 76 notes with good wraps from other players and only weighs about 20kgs...hmm lots to think about.

And @ Tin, yeah I had heard the same thing through my industry grapevine out here, but if the price of the original G-70 is anything to go by, it will be around the same price as the PA2xPro...($7000 RRP). It would have to be pretty special to really outdo the g70. And as per the case of the PA1xpro -v- PA2xPRo I don't think the difference in keyboard will justify the difference in price.
Probably the only new keyboard that is going to be markedly different is the Audya, but even that remains to be seen.
Cheers
Dennis

The new Roland will have a wav/aiff/MP3 player and a 8 track audio recorder..It will also have a built in USB audio/midi interface..There is also a possibility of a feature similar to the "chord sequencer"..

Look for it after Summer ..2008


Oops, you didn't hear any of this from me..

Ditto Fran...but I think the price, is going to be out of my range. Perhaps well over $6500 AUD.

Sorry, Fran, I posted this paragraph on the wrong thread, so I'll re-post it here;

"As to the rumors you state, well, the return of the Chord Sequencer will make it a 'must buy' for me, but all the rest of that cr@p is just almost useless. Especially an eight track audio recorder. Sheesh, what are they thinking? Anyone that can afford something in this price range already HAS (or knows they can get) a FAR superior DAW out of their existing computer, with infinitely better editing and plug-ins. But no doubt, Roland will jump on the 'me-too' bandwagon instead of concentrating on making the ultimate ARRANGER, and they will continue to graft little-needed workstation functions onto a little improved arranger OS.

When will they ever learn... We don't need a studio in a box. We need a great ARRANGER."

The audio/midi interface (maybe its like the yamaha mLan syetem??) would be about the only thing I would use I reckon..Everything else I do on my DAW. From what I have read about the chord sequencer, that might be a useful tool, but they might just release an update to the g-70 O/S to incorporate it into it, as well as having it on the new board??
D

I have decided to now wait until NAMM and see what is released there. If the new Roland (if there is one) has the chord sequencer it might be in the mix, as well might be the Audya..In any case Roland will be more willing to offer a better deal than at present on the G70 once the new models are released.....well one can hope!!!
Cheers
Dennis

I might not even wait for NAMM now...I have had some further "info" that the new 'boards being released At NAMM by Roland are the brand new Fantom range as well as digital pianos, NO arrangers. In fact in Oz Roland are running huge discounts on the entire Fantom range as well as ALL digital pianos, but nothing at all for the arranger keyboards...
My source indicates there MIGHT be a chance that the E-80 will be optioned up, ie ability for MP3's etc etc, and changes to Op Sys software (but they are not confirmed) but that's about it.
So decision time, wait to see what the Audya is all about, or take the plunge now on the G70, or maybe even a Kurzweil and the Sonic Cell (which sounds absolutely fantastic on the smf's btw, and imho of course!!) and add the midjay for some basic arranger stuff..
Hmmm decisions, decisions.
Cheers,
Dennis

Right now, Dennis, I think we are in probably a 9-12 month wait for a new G-series 76. But you need something NOW...

OK, here's my recommendation. Buy a used G70. You won't lose much on a used one if you don't like it (I presume you are having as hard a time in Oz finding one to demo as we do in the US!). But to address some of your specific needs...

Yes, the SMF editing and re-voicing tools in the G70 are the absolute best and easiest of almost anything. This is where Roland have always shone. It is the work of just a couple of minutes to tweak an SMF from an entirely alien keyboard to sound good on the G70. Drum re-mapping, controller offsets, velocity offsets, the works. And all this without getting into the detailed sequencer editing at all! The sequencer itself is pretty comprehensive (but no competition for a computer one like Cubase).

The sound itself is very 'live', with drums that sparkle with dynamics, and don't sound dead and dry, there is a little 'space' around them that many others don't include. There are PLENTY of user and Roland demos to hear this for yourself (Roland-arranger.com stream most of them). If it's of any value to you, I use my G70 for all my full band gigs now without exception. It is still a VERY good, and very easy to operate live keyboard, and the B3 rocks, at least, better than other arrangers - get an XK-1 or Nord Electro if you are a Hammond purist. For me, in a band, the G70 B3 is good enough!

If you are into modern, cutting edge musics, sampling and all that, it ain't for you. I would bite the bullet and put up with the PA1 or 2X's OS to get that (and you'll gain synchronized mp3 dual playback to boot). But I have little to complain of soundwise in the G70 (other than niggles). I have always been able to come up with what I need...

The G70's combination of killer drums, killer piano, killer B3, killer SMF editing, ease of operation and some good styles (easy to edit or create new ones) make this an easy choice over the Kurzweil (I have a K2500, so I know a bit about this!). Although sonically it can keep up, there is no arranger features and operation is a lot less intuitive.

If you can't afford the NEXT Roland, you won't get the Audya, either (it probably will cost even more than the Roland).

No, simply put, you want a 76 NOW (or at least, within three months), I'd say either a used G70, or a new PA2Xpro. You may not like the Korg's OS, but trust me, you will find something you don't like in anything! Including the G70..! And given that they ALL are imperfect, basically that just boils it down to sonic and tactile differences. For me, that means a G70. For you... well, that is YOUR decision.

Hi Dennis,
wow, what went wrong ( re PA2x ).
What are you back to using at the moment if you sent the PA2X back.

You may want to check if the Roland styles actually suit the type of music you play.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by miden:
[B]

Thanks Diki for that response, just the info I was after. I'm pretty much convinced on the G-70 and as the best new price I can get out here is $4200 (AUD) used might be the way, IF one comes up. Since it's release I have only seen one on Ebay.
From all the angles I need in a board the G70 does work.
The Kurzweil option is only because it is a fully weighted 76 note digital piano/controller, and coupled with a Sonic Cell for the smf/mp3 stuff, and a midjay for any styles, it sorta seemed like a good compromise system.
So I am down to one or the other.
I agree Diki, on the Audya, it's gonna be pretty pricey I think, and out of my range.
Cheers
Dennis

Hi Rikki,
Nothing really, it's just that some areas of the operating system and hardware have not changed since PA1x days..You still cannot place or use markers in a midi file, you cannot enter scroll points in a midi when using the text option, the text option is very basic with no ability to have spaces in a line of text (ie when you have chord symbols above a line of lyric) insert effects can still not be used with a sound selected via midi (without a convoluted workaround!!), and a couple of others.
These are things I have discussed at length with Paolo over the past few years, and made suggestion after suggestion to no avail.
Sonically, its superb, style-wise it's superb, great pre on the mic input.
Simply put it's just not for me from an operational pov.
It's still a super keyboard though!!!
For the moment I am back to the SD1+, but the dealer is maybe going to work a bit of a back-trade for the Midjay, but I won't decide until I see the numbers.
Cheers
Dennis

Hi Dennis,
is that your SD1+ currently on ebay??
None of my business, but just wondering why you would list under "keyboards" rather than the larger electronic keyboards section. You probably have your own reason for doing so.

I tend to browse most days the "electronic keyboard" section & only inadvertently happened to come across the sd1 in the "keyboard " section.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by miden:
[B]