Heres an idea.

A truly intelligent arranger. One that remembers the way you play songs in your song book and remembers your chord progressions so that it can anticipate your changes in terms of varying the drum pattens, bass lines, guitar riffs. I am not talking about a keyboard that forces you to play certain chords but one that anticipates for example 2-5-1 progressions and makes subtle but tasteful variable accompaniments.

This could be done in many ways.

For example the programmers could develope 8 or 9 different subtle bass lines for the end of say 4 or 8 bars of a pattern. they could be triggered by the loudness in which you play or the type of could you play or simply because of the number of times you have played a the same or similar sequence of chords. You could do the same with drum patterns. This would give the instrument a much more live feel.

I know tchnichs had a similar function and every now and again i would get a lovely surprise when playing but what i am talking about would be much more sophisticated and in depth programming.

It would

One thing I think we need to realize is that although we would like features that would be “musical”, that is not what would sell keyboards. Manufacturers are looking for features that would WOW keyboard lovers and would be easy to market and demonstrate and would cause keyboard lovers to buy.

Today, what some persons don’t seem to get is that the reality is integration is the name of the game with electronic products. If you look at many electronic products, you would see that they are being built to where a user can use it for multiple purposes, transfer and create data quickly and easily and in different ways. That is why the Lionstract, Korg Ketron and possibly Roland are integrating music and recording features on their keyboards.

There are lots of music lovers who don’t play for a living who don’t want to use there computer for doing a simple recording. They probably don’t have time nor the technical background to set-up or use a DAW. That is why keyboard manufacturers are including multi tract audio recorders, MP3 players audio loops and so on. They are making keyboards so that users do not have to go different places just to have some fun playing and recording to impress their friends.


If the feature is not easily marketable, then manufacturers may not want to spend RandD on it if it would not bring them extra revenue.
How many of us have “discovered” a feature on our keyboard after months of having the board? The feature was good but it was not marketed because it was not something that would have help sell the keyboard to lots of persons.
BTW, I find it strange that some persons now want to say that “arranger” players are competent users of keyboards when before they would always put “arranger” players down and insult their intelligence by saying having creative features on an “arranger” like style creation and sampling would be too much for them.

Hi

Thanks Diki for starting this thread.

I wonder if we could present and discuss ideas as a brainstorm, i.e. without critizing and without arguing that
- I don't like the idea
- the manufacturers don't like the idea
- the pro's / home user don't like the idea
- it is to expensive
etc.
--- NO OFFENSE MEANT ---

Maybe some of the ideas could be implemented through software, i.e. style modifications, registration settings, OTS etc.

As many of you probably know I have developed a number of software programs for Yamaha keyboards. Maybe one or more of these could be modified to fullfil one of your ideas. Or maybe your idea would require a completely new software program.

What do you think?

Best wishes
Jørgen

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The Unofficial YAMAHA Keyboard Resource Site

Yes, I just find it sad that rather than exercise our brains a little, and try to come up with some suggestions that we as PLAYERS may realize arrangers need (perhaps better than the designers, who may not be out there in the trenches as much as us), many of us us would rather spend all their energy trying to explain why none of this could EVER possibly happen...

Despite every year or so, some manufacturer coming out with something new that we hadn't thought about! I am eternally grateful for the fact that the industry designers give these nabobs of negativism the attention they truly deserve! As, to be honest, so should we...

If your primary response to this thread has been to pooh-pooh the possibility of any of it occurring, what does this say about your imagination, your creativity, your ability to dream (all supposedly the strengths of ARTISTS)...? Are you all really beat down THAT bad?

Every new feature that appears is proof that positive change is not only possible, but to be expected! It is in the interest of the manufacturers themselves to innovate. Only the poor, spiritless drones here seem to be incapable of seeing a rosier future. Perhaps medication is the answer, perhaps just WAKING UP and looking around at all the great arrangers that have appeared in the last two or three years (and all the ones prior to that), and realizing that change is happening, and not just a dream...

And, if it IS happening, where is the harm in speculating, and perhaps aiding in it's direction..? For those of you that feel powerless, why not just enjoy the flights of fancy of those less broken than yourselves, rather than patiently try to explain to us poor idiots how the progress that you see going on every day isn't actually happening?!

Or has old age finally defeated you?

The hell with it... I'm going down swinging (with my double-time button)!!

Jørgen, thanks for popping in on this one. Your programs for Yamaha's truly help to extend the scope of those arrangers.

The Session Manager software that was written by a Roland-arranger.com member (rshotbolt) completely revolutionizes Roland's G70/E80, and adds capabilities that the instrument can't do by itself. Add on capabilities like this go a long way to extend the arrangers, but primarily, these are offline processes... I know how to double-time or half-time a style using the Style composer, but it would be a LOT more convenient if the button to do this was added by the manufacturer..!

Better lookup tables for different instruments, and things like this can ONLY be applied by the manufacturer, sadly.

But perhaps one day, a manufacturer might open their SDK, and allow users like yourself, with a technical bent, to actually mess with the OS itself, rather than try to patch the shortcomings with offline processes...

One can only hope...

I agree. They could even do it under a licencing system whereby every amended O/S that say, Jorgen sells, they (K/R/Y et al) get a percentage.
I do think the maufacturers listen to incoming suggestions, whether they act (cannot or won't) is another question.
It's the squeakiest wheel that gets oiled!!

Hi

@ miden

Just to correct you: I dont SELL software. I give it away for free.

@ Diki

How do we get the keyboard OS open? This would really give us something to work with!

Jørgen

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The Unofficial YAMAHA Keyboard Resource Site

Jorgen,
I already knew that..I was suggesting that if you developed some in depth software under licence from the manufacturers that significantly alters how the operating system works, then perhaps some reward for effort would be justified. I was not meaning to insult you. I for one would be more than happy to pay for system upgrades above and beyond what the manufacturers provide.
Dennis

Hi Dennis

I was not insulted. Not at all! My comment was just meant as a small correction.

But if the OS was open - and it was possible to build some exiting new features into it - a license fee would be great ;-)

Kind Regards
Jørgen

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The Unofficial YAMAHA Keyboard Resource Site

Well, we will also release the Qranger under stand alone Qranger Composer Linux application: http://www.lionstracs.com/store/information_pages.php?info_id=34

The Qranger Composer will be included in the 64 Studio Linux distribution, where you are able to Free download and install in to a standard PC X86.
In the 64studio distrubution is also included the Linuxampler and we will distribuite some Qranger template for automatic connection on Linuxsampler and Vst.

so.. if there someone is able to develope code under QT4, we give also the all souce code for manage and Upgrade of the all feature and ideas that you like and then redistribuite it again back ( GPL license)

My personal Idea and I will continue only under this way, is to use one Timeline Audio-Midi SEQ with HD streaming.
Only midi pattens arranger have to much limitation and are not able to manage Audio tracks, the problem you know, are the Offset start point when you change the chords.
Sampler is not able too, because is not possible to chenge the offset start point in realtime.

Maybe your all new arranger ideas can be featured under the Qranger Open souce.
Enjoy what you play.
cheers