without the obvious feature comparism that you already knew


PA 800

well constructed,good bass response,better keys,better seq(Yam's is limited),good piano with pad ,synth and drums,better VH

PSR s 900

a suprise to me.Acostic guitars blow me away ,better than G70,PA 1x,800.

Style programming and style flow(and fills)

-very versatile for the arranger player,singer -no unwanted suprises, very smooth and well covered for almost all western music styles.
all those guitar music styles (ac guitar,bass drums) is near perfect with simple and not too in your face bass lines- meaning -a listener will not be bored with a style.VERY realistic guitar strums(both pattern and the sound itself)!

navigation - better than PA no -double button pressing,quick and fast!

Sounds - Piano -I can live with both
Yam- higher range -not as good as korg,

EPs- PA is better
Strings -Yam is fresher type strings ,Korg has more traditional pad type - both works


Saxes -both are good

Synth - Korg +

Drums - Korg +++

Harmonica and organ - KORG

Ac and El guitars - AC guitars in Yam (++++++) , clean El guitar both are OK,Dist El guitars -yam _++++

bottom line- KORG :more workstation type with traditional good sounds (like a good ROMpler),plus more playback features

-Yamaha -true OMB with no headache in finding a style that would match all current popular songs (nor rap or hiphop).Style flow is excellent.backing is not over done.Fills super smooth and natural.


My advice is if you do >75% of arranger play with instant song creation via arranger-the choice is clear - YAMAHA

if you play in a band ,if you use SMFs alot and mp3 and mostly playback gigs,and studio work -KORG



[This message has been edited by jamman (edited 01-18-2008).]

Thanks for the great review, jamman.

Personally I have always found the S900, and other Yamaha arrangers, to be "player's instruments"...that is using styles and playing "live"...I have no use for "karaoke" type playback features (SMF, or MP3), other than making home/studio recordings.

Dave Boyd (Uncle Dave) said in another thread, "...the PA800 is a "Singers" machine. It is the best vocal processor, harmonizer, monitor on the market".

Perhaps he's right?

I have yet to try a PA-800...the dealer nearby won't carry them, and the local arranger players all use Yammies, so I need to rely on unbiased reviewers like yourself.

I agree about the S900's piano...it's "livable"...I find it sounds great when used with the arranger...not as good solo.

The S900 is FAR less expensive than the PA-800, is it not?

About $1000 less in some places.

Thanks again for your candid and unbiased review.

Ian





[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-19-2008).]

i am curious to see how pa500 does compared with s900. i think that would be a closer comparission, considering the price tag.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the PA -500 doesn't have a vocal mic input or harmonizer...probably more comparable to the PSR-S700 which, if the Korg price is correct at around $1500 USD, is again far less expensive, and has more polyphony.

Hard to find a direct comparison in either case.

Ian

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[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 01-19-2008).]

Jamman thanks for a good unbiased review.

One of the primary reasons I became interested in the PA800 was the vocal harmonizer and the songbook feature. I'm a newcomer to doing some vocals. I thought the harmonizer could help that department Have to say as much as I enjoyed my Yamaha boards, I'm happy I switched to the PA800. It's not perfect, but neither are any of the other brands. But for today and the immediate future the PA is doing what I want it to do and it's keeping me happy. In a year from now that could change and where the dice land is anybody's guess.

I loved the Tyros 2 and really enjoyed the G70 once I get acclimated to it's OS. But, once I got the PA800 I only played the Tyros2 for one additional gig. I didn't even bother to turn on the Tyros2 the night I packed it up for shipment to it's new home. Some of that comes from using Yamaha boards the last 4 years. I just got tired of the styles and needed some change. Just my opinion and what is working for me.



[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 01-19-2008).]

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[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 01-19-2008).]

You're right, jamman...Yamaha styles, especially with those Mega voice guitar strums, are definitely much more musical than the PA-800's and far from boring.

Also, no one has even come close to the S900's SA Guitars...no one...they are simply the most realistic of any arranger...except the T2, which has even more of the same.

Definitely designed for the player.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-19-2008).]

Ian,
you stated that you have not yet been able to try a Korg PA800 and that the Yamaha Mega Guitars are the best. I carry and sell both boards at my store and would just like to point out that the Korg's Guitars have the same technology as the Yamaha for producing realistic guitars. They use multiple samples on different velocities to achieve the realism of acoustic and electric guitars. I too love the Yamaha Mega and Superarticulation guitars but I don't think the Korg lacks in this area as well.
I think that Korgs thinking is that the PA50 at $895.00 will compete with the PSR700 and that the new PA500 will compete between the Yamaha 700 and 900 for those wanting the styles and sounds and touch screen of the 800 but don't need or use a vocal harmonizer.



------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

Korg's guitars are probably close to the Yamaha's Mega Guitars, George, but I will have to try them myself.

Do the Korg guitars respond differently to staccato and legato playing?

I'm talking about right hand voices.

Yamaha's SA Guitars will differ the attack according to playing technique, and also do pitch bends if you play within a certain interval....very cool and very realistic.

I wasn't aware that Korg's guitars were capable of doing these nuances.

That's what gives the Yamaha SA Guitars the edge in my line of thinking.

Again...a player's instrument.

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-19-2008).]

Ian I don't think this is new technology at all..Aren't the SA sounds basically multi sampled tones that are velocity sensitive and velocity switched...same thing we have used with boards like the XP80, and others that allowed a wide range of velocity and velocity switching of tones..

Sure , the tone samples are better than 10 years ago, since more memory is being used today..for wav[PCM] tables..

Perhaps not "new" technology, Fran...but Yamaha has taken it to a new level and offers it on a mid range keyboard...pretty cool stuff in my book.

The G70 or the PA -800, both MUCH more expensive than an S900, do not offer this level of "live" control over samples.

The SA Sax is another example...terrific realism...legato and staccato playing give different nuances and attacks and switch between polyphonic and mono according to the player's expression.

Roland has some new technology, started on the Atelier organs that resembles SA, but the demos I heard didn't impress me, and the "SuperNatural" sounds on the new RDs and Fantoms are supposedly pretty cool...no doubt Roland will have these in their new G-series arranger.

Until they do, these very expressive voices are a Yamaha exclusive.

Ian

Ian, I can remember experimenting with this sound design around the early 90's..
We use to velocity switch the 4 partials of a tone[on a Roland D-70],..giving us 4 elements of a sound..and the D70 would go one step further..allowing, 5 of these 4 partial tones within a performance..all velocity switched..again...at 31 polyphony it could be tricky...

Yep, the technology itself has been around a while...I used a D-70 in a friend's studio for several months, it was midi'd to a D-550 module (awesome!), which had a PG1000 programmer...we had a ball...the sky was the limit.


The beauty of Yamaha's SA voices are they are under the player's control whilst playing "live".

If these new "SuperNatural" voices from Roland, I saw only drums and Electric Pianos, are made to include Guitars and other instruments, and there's no reason why they shouldn't, I'd say if the new G-series incorporates this technology, it will be quite an instrument.

Since the T3 will be only 5 octaves, Roland will have no competition in the 76 note arranger field as Korg have nothing resembling either SA or SuperNatural voices as of yet.

Ian

Every loves their choices,great.

contd-
BTW -PA can also do guitar slides like 900.

Brass - both are great, yam has the edge

woodwinds - I like both

Overall sound -

Yam -some of the sounds are exceptional , but generally speaking -individual XG patchs doesn't match Triton's workstation quality sound

Korg - each individual sound with some exceptions(if you use sound/program mode)are very useful ,in a sequence
or solo,very responsive.Drums - fuller/more variety /more ethnic kits.


Yes Korg has more features/more powerful seq and editing,loads Triton programs(minus EFX).

I think it's unacceptable to put cheap quality mod/pitch wheels to a $1600 Kb.Yam can do better -add $50 and use Motif's rubber wheels and it will save the KB from cheap looking and feeling wheels (like E403).Durability of the wheels can be an issue later because personally I use them alot.(I prefer the joystik ,but that's another story).Even mini Mo has bigger and more durable wheels.
PSR s 900 is a KB with potential and will sell like cakes if they put more money on cetain areas.Yam knows that people will still buy them so they kept on doing the things that are not acceptable .


Here is what Korg and Roland have to do to beat Yam in arranger world.

They have the sounds,built quality,keys,features (like in 900$ PA 50-you can replace all the styles,more slots for styles etc).but they are missing major points as an ARRANGER like-


1.Straight forward navigation and single button pressing

2.(for westen and asian )(not mid east) players - good simple 8 beats/rock/disco,reggae beats and ballads(ofcourse simple jazz and country too) -I said SIMPLE ,not over done.Don't put too much RnB/Motown/ stuff,people gonna use SMFs for super famous songs.Don't put 5 jives styles or 5/4 jazz beats.For mid east players -it's another story.

3.Simple(and many) fills that doesn't need too much work while you are playing.

I think T2 is over priced too.If you compare to G70 and PA2x pro built quality,features.
But Yam will still get away (people will still buy them cause they don't have a choice) because they did the arranger section right(OS,styles,fills).


In workstaion world- sounds and function (and OS)wise Triton has beaten Fantoms and early Motifs,But this is the arranger world - STyles/fills and OS(easy navigation while playing) is the KEY! Wake up!




[This message has been edited by jamman (edited 01-19-2008).]

The way it seems is the PSR-S900 is already selling like hot-cakes. For some of us that own PSR-3000s, which I believe was the best selling keyboard on the market, upgrading to an S-900 may not be enough of an upgrade to take the plunge. However, this may depend upon what you intend to use the keyboard for.

The PA-800 has lots of great features, and undisputedly has an outstanding vocal processor. For me, the operating system leaves a lot to be desired, and I was not overwhelmed with the styles. The drums are hot--no doubt about it! But, you can tune any keyboard's drums to make them hot--if you know how to use the onboard tools and registrations.

From MY perspective, there is no keyboard that can be considered the perfect keyboard. They all have lots of neat features, and most have great sounds. I sincerely believe it's a shame that the vast majority of folks that purchase keyboards never take the time to explore all of their keyboard's features. Fortunately, there are forums such as the Synthzone and a few others that have a contingency of members that are willing to share their technical knowledge with the overall membership.

Reviews such as this one are, of course, very subjective. They usually provide a broad overview based upon the experiences of individuals that have taken the time to field test a specific keyboard, then report their findings. Most of the time they are quite concise, informative, and provide the reader with a wealth of information that can be very benificial, particularly if that person is in the market for a new keyboard. What I would personally like to see is more first-hand information posted in the same format that George Kay frequently posts, which I believe is unbiased, very informative and extremely beneficial to everyone.

In the past, when a person purchased a keyboard, regardless of the brand, and encountered a problem, he or she would post a question to the masses of this form in hopes of solving the problem. This, unfortunately, is no longer the case. Hopefully, the confrontational posts that seem to have dominated the forum during the past year will soon cease to exist. At least I hope this is the case.

Cheers,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy