Can anyone help me out? I bought a KORG 16 track recording studio via Ebay for Xmas and you guessed it UPS lost the package. I paid for it on 15 Dec via PayPal. The seller got his payment back from UPS yesterday but hasn't reimbursed my money to me. I am hoping some of you have the experience to help me with advice.

First, I'm wondering what the likelihood is that I will get reimbursed by Paypal if the seller won't pay me back?
Second, If Paypal tries to get out of paying me like they did w/Beaky, what will PayPal use as the reason they won't pay me back?
Third, The seller is telling me he can't pay me until the check from UPS clears. Does that sound logical to anyone? I mean, if he has a check from UPS, would the bank require it to clear before he could use the funds?

On the positive side the seller has called me a couple times and told me tonight when I called him that he will pay me next Friday.

On the negative side, the seller went out in the last couple days and made his feedback rating PRIVATE which means no one can see what others have said about him (this also blocks him from selling anything else on Ebay).

Beakybird, I know something like this happened to you but I don't have an email address for you. Thanks again to any who may be able to help me feel better (or worse if that turns out to be the case).

Thanks for any advice you all can give me. I am trying to avoid getting too trigger happy on this but am starting to get that sinking feeling.

Randy

1. You paid the seller via PayPal? Why did you say UPS paid him?

2. Did the seller provide a tracking #? Was it insured?

3. If you don't get payment back from the seller, you'll have to file a dispute with PayPal and go through that exercise, which can be frustrating.

4. I don't know the ins and outs on what buyer protection you have if he or you is not a "verified" client of PayPal.

Good luck and keep us posted.

zuki

Have you heard from the seller yet?
Keep all proof emails and such.
I have found paypal refunds to be fairly quick and simple, and their employees very helpful.....as long as you followed all the rules.
I would file a dispute as soon as possible the quicker you get them involved the better.

Zuki - I paid him via PayPal on 15 Dec. Then he shipped it via UPS on the 17th. It never left the processing facility. I had a tracking number and tracked it but it just never went out of the UPS processing place. So eventually, we exchanged emails and UPS traced it and said it was lost. Since he shipped it, they paid him whatever he had it insured for. So he received his payment from UPS yesterday.

What is bothering me is that he has my money from mid-Dec and now has the payment from UPS which he says must clear before he can pay me. I wouldn't be so worried if he didn't go out on Ebay and change his feedback profile to block folks from seeing his feedback. I makes me think he's preparing to not pay me. I hope that's not the case.

I am not sure if banks will release funds immediately when they receive a check (like one from UPS) or not. My experience is that if you have funds in the bank and you cash a check, you can get the money right away, so I am worried that he had the check yesterday and hasn't paid me back via PayPal yet. But maybe the check has to clear?

I'm just worried that PayPal won't help me. By the way, both I and the recipient (seller) are verified Paypal members. Not sure if that will help.

Thanks again for any who can help me with advice.

Randy

I actually called paypal once when I was having a problem and they were real helpful and called the guy and "convinced" him to refund the money.

File the dispute tonight, don't wait, and don't cancel it until you have the money in your hand.
Be nice.....but firm!

Mike, I have been sending all (but maybe 1) emails via the Ebay system (buyer to seller). I have one from him stating he will pay me in full which is filed on the Ebay server.

I have not initiated a dispute yet w/Paypal because I don't want to make him mad at me. I have 45 days from the day I paid him to file a dispute. He says he'll pay me by next Friday. That will leave 4 days or so before my 45 days are up. So I am thinking about giving him the benefit of the doubt until next Friday.

We exchanged emails, and he has called me twice. I called him tonight and that's when I learned he got the funds yesterday from UPS. So I had a lot of faith going until tonight when I saw that he has gone "private" with his feedback, which Ebay discourages because people can't read what others say about you.

Wish me luck. I wanted to buy one of the brand new Korg 16 track studios, but a friend told me that the older ones (made in Japan vice China) have much better components, so I opted to try to get one on Ebay. I'm starting to kick myself.

Randy

Mike I'm hoping that since we are both verified, they should have access to his bank account. Maybe I will initiate the dispute now. And I'll just tell him that in the interest of getting my $$$ back, I can't afford to let this go any longer.

Thanks again for the help guys!

Randy

Now wait a minute You mean to tell me he has been paid by you AND also from a UPS claim? And he won't give you your money back? Seems he's double dipping.

This thing smells fishy to me. I would call him and request an immediate refund. No more Mr. nice guy.

I recently went through a bad situation where I purchased off eBay and got scammed. Mine is in litigation and has cost me lots of time and frustration. However, my persistence will win out in the end.

zuki

Zuki, yes, that's right. I have been struggling with myself to cut him some slack, i.e., maybe he spent the money for Xmas and hasn't recouped his funds yet. But now that he's changed his feedback to "private", I'm starting to suspect something isn't right. I thought he could have refunded my money as soon as he found out UPS was giving him the refund.

Thanks... I'll let you know what happens next.

Randy

Randy,

I can appreciate your touchy situation. He probably did spend your funds and maybe he is waiting for the UPS funds to clear.

Some folks live week to week. If that's his case, then waiting it out might be the best.

I would still call and say since he's been paid by you and UPS, please send my an immediate PayPal payment. Make him tell you he doesn't have enough money to do that.

zuki

Zuki - I just sent him an email via Ebay's buyer-to-seller mail system. I told him that since he recieved the UPS payment yesterday, I would appreciate an immediate payment back to me. I mentioned initiating a dispute via PayPal since my time is running out and told him I'd prefer that if at all possible, he just pay me to avoid the dispute.

I hope he'll respond with something positive. I'll let you know what I hear. If I don't get a response from this guy by Monday, I'll initiate a dispute on PayPal.

I think Beaky had a bad experience w/PayPal and they wouldn't reimburse him for his loss. Not sure what reason they used to justify not paying him.

Thanks again for the advice.

Randy

I have had excellent results with Paypal refunds. You must however file a dispute with Paypal within 45 days of the original transaction. So you must file ASAP. The transaction between the seller and UPS is not part of the Paypal transaction. Don't waste your time with the seller. Paypal (which is actually owned by eBay) will refund direct to your Paypal account. When you type in your explanation at Paypal show the UPS tracking number so they can verify it was lost. Also go back to the original auction listing and see how much the Paypal transaction was guaranteed for with this seller. If it's a new seller they only insure up to $200. If they are an established seller their transactions are insured up to $2000.

If he's a young guy maybe he does have to wait for the check to clear to free up the payment to you.
I wouldn't threaten him, I would keep treating him like a gentleman and take him at his word, but I would file the dispute. Like I said I wouldn't get nasty or do anything to make him get defensive.
I would tell him that you are just following paypals' rules. And when everything is settled no one gets a bad mark, and of course thank him for keeping you informed.
The first step in the dispute is they send it to him and wait for an answer, at least he will know someone is watching, he'll have to pay up or explain why not . He has 7 days to answer, I think.
At least he is still talking to you

Thanks to you all! You know, if he hadn't changed his feedback to "private", I would not be alarmed. If I don't get a response from him by tomorrow, I will initiate the dispute with Paypal. In my Paypal history, it says "the recipient is Verified", which I think means his account is tied to a bank account. I hope that means Paypal will help me recoup the whole amount.

Thanks again to all and I will let you khow how this plays out. I think the next time I am going to buy "new" whether it comes from China or not.

Randy

Randy,

How'd you make out on this thing????

Zuki - thanks for asking! Actually, I'm still waiting. I did file a dispute w/Paypal. Based on what you guys said, I called PayPal and they reassured me that since he and I are both "verified", I would get the entire amount back. They suggested I go ahead and file the dispute since he was already paid the insurance from UPS. In my dispute I told him I was opening the dispute because my time was running out for PayPal protection. I assured him that if and when he paid me I would leave positive feedback for him.

Immediately after I filed the dispute, he sent me a response (via PayPal) saying he called PayPal and told them he would pay me in full as soon as the check from UPS cleared. So that was Sunday and so far, no payment. I'm hoping for payment by this Friday. If he doesn't pay me by then, I will have another week or so before I elevate it w/PayPal to a claim, at which time (according to the folks I talked to) I will get a complete refund and he will owe PayPal. They actually said that if he had the funds in his bank account, they would withdraw them to pay me.

So I'm still hoping for a positive result. I'll let you know what happens this Friday.

Again, thanks for asking!

Randy

[This message has been edited by saxxman (edited 01-23-2008).]

You were nice and did the right thing. Seems it'll work out for you and hopefully for the other guy too.

zuki

I guess the seller is afraid the UPS check will bounce.

Please excuse my sick sense of humor but this guy should have stepped up to the plate.

It's not his fault UPS din't deliver but he has a moral obligation to return the funds ASAP regardless of UPS. No delivery, return the money period. My humble opinon.(maybe not so humble)

Saxman I do hope everything turns out OK this stuff can be very trying.

Jerry

Any word yet?

Guys - actually, the "word" so far is positive but the issue is still not resolved. PayPal now says the dispute is "closed" and says a refund was issued by the seller. However, there is no refund in my bank account. The PayPal site lists the refund as "pending" and when I clicked on that it says "seller may not have had sufficient funds to pay the refund - PayPal is reviewing the case".

So I called PayPal and they said "don't worry, it takes a few days to clear our review". I really don't know what is to review. I wouldn't care about a few more days if they hadn't closed the dispute for me. I would have preferred to close the dispute myself when I received the money. So I am going to wait til maybe Wednesday and then call PayPal again. I can't really re-open the dispute, so I am going to have to talk to them on the phone if the money is not deposited shortly.

I'll let you know when I get the final word. I am relieved that they say the refund is issued, but I will be a lot happier when I see it in my account.. Wish me luck!

Randy

[This message has been edited by saxxman (edited 01-27-2008).]

Randy,

The same happened to me. PayPal sided with me. There were no funds in his account and they basically suspended his account and sent me away broke - said "sorry". Very frustrating.

However.......in your favor, it was an eBay transaction, so they should issue you the PayPal guarantee if they can't get it from him.

zuki

Zuki - I hope you didn't get stung for too much. Every day is a new learning experience. He and I were both "verified" and I bought over E-bay, so the guy I talked with suggested I would get the money even if PayPal had to pay me. I'm hoping that was accurate.

I was excited about getting a 16 track recorder. I just put it on hold for a while til this mess if over.

Thanks to all for your help!

Randy

I have authorities working on my resolve and it will eventually settle. I will never stop pursuing the jerk that ripped me off (and believe me, he is a jerk).

Are you sure this guy even sent the board to begin with and then received a refund from UPS? Can he provide you with a copy of the UPS reimbursement? It's rare that a product gets lost.

zuki

Zuki - yes, the package entered the UPS system. It seemed a little fishy to me from the outset. It went to the UPS processing facility, was scanned in at 12:29 AM. That's the 1st and last time the package moved. I had a tracking number and the package just never changed status from "processed into UPS facility".

I agree that a 24 pound box would be hard to lose. I exchanged emails w/UPS customer service and of course, they told me they only dealt w/the shipper. So the seller told me he was reimbursed (received the check from UPS) on 18 Jan. So now I have to deal w/PayPal to try to find out where the money is at. Haven't heard from the seller but since he changed his Ebay feedback to "private" I am assuming he is expecting negative feedback.

Yuck. It's a shame folks can't just be straight up on these transactions. But that's the world we live in. I hope your case gets resolved soon too.

Randy

Sounds like a good result it usually takes 4 or 5 days for a paypal deposit to clear into my Bank acct.

Hey Everybody! Got my DOUGH! I received my refund via PayPal today! The only thing I can't discern is whether the refund came direct or if PayPal had to pay me out of the insurance fund. Once I determine that, I will leave the right kind of feedback.

Thanks much to you all for the support and advice!

Randy

Great news