I'm thinking of buying a Motif rack to replace the annoying sounds on the T2 - mainly the bass and drums, but I want to be sure - will it work? Has anyone tried it?

I'd like the Motif to be able to recognize that when the Yamaha sends the MIDI signal for a finger bass, it should replace it with another finger bass that I choose; a slap bass, with a slap bass that I choose. Same with drum kits. I need to be able to assign the T2's default incoming MIDI signal for a sound, with another sound of my choice on the Motif.

Can this be done?
Chony

Chony,
I have a Motif ES rack and a Tyros 2 but am afraid that what you are planning cannot be done so simply. Yes, you can hook the T2 to the Motif, and the drum and bass channel will match but you will have no control over the program change numbers sent everytime you load a different style and most of the times you will have to rotate frantically your data knob to choose a sound of your liking while the arranger is playing.
The only (partial) solution that comes to my mind is to create a Multi setup for every genre of music you play (like an acoustic set, a jazz set, a rock set, etc) where you choose a drumkit and a bass sound for every kind of music and then save these Multis filtering out the option to receive bank and program change numbers (so they stay the same, even when you select a different style on the Tyros).

I have always dreamt to incorporate my modules into my arranger setup and have finally solved this problem connecting them both to the Korg PA2X Pro, which gives you the choice to send the midi notes for every track of a style to an internal sound or an external tone generator and you can also program the correct Bank and Program change numbers and save them as a part of a Performance (which is the equivalent of a Yamaha Registration).
And there is more than that, because you have the same choice with the notes you play with your right hand, because you can route all the three parts (R1, R2 and R3) to an internal sound or to a midi channel and again save inside a Performance the right Bank and Program change numbers.
Just to make an example, I have created a Performance called "Setembro" (from the same song as played by Quincy Jones) where in the right hand I have a layer of three different vocal sounds: one from the PA2X, one from the Motif ES and one from the Fantom: choir heaven!

Chony, why don't you just sell the T2 and get the Pa2xpro which is what I did. ;-)

It really has that, "LIVE" sound your looking for over the T2. There are maybe a handful of sounds from the T2 that I will miss, but there are so many more sounds in the Pa2 that are really, really, very good.

Al

I was researching this with the G70 for use with a Fantom XR rack sampler , the midi again does not allow instrument presets to control external expanders via midi (correct me if i wrong)

Having googled deeper i found the Bohm Starbird range (which i've heard v little of) is offering this facility . THis is a German manufacturer who i think compete with Wersi (perhaps wersis do it too?)

Tony, there's a fairly complete description at Roland-arranger.com on how to use external modules with the G70.

In essence, it boils down to, for SMF and Style use, no problem, most codes can be written into the style or SMF, and a Linked MIDI set routes each Part appropriately. For live Keyboard Parts, it's a bit more complicated, but short story... You Link an SMF to the UPG that calls up the external Tones for you to play.

Full details here: http://www.roland-arranger.com/smf/index.php?topic=618.msg3498#msg3498

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 02-26-2008).]

Hi Diki,

I remember reading/skimming over that in the G70 user manual - never took it all in as it was a bit double dutch to me at the time - i'll have a re:read to see if it is useable - thanks for the "heads up"

Tony

It's not in the manual. There is no 'official' way to do this. Fortunately, Roland-arranger.com has a few technically minded members to work it all out for you!

There's quite a bit you can do with a G70 that isn't in the manual at all.

Thanks v. much Diki,

The user programs are something i confess i haven't exploited (even after 3 years - so far have got by saving regs to them and placing in MA without really understanding - it just works!) - have read up and digested a bit more this evening and now think it can handle my bass pedals / organ piston type setups too

Re: orgiinal Q - controlling midi expander - i see how to do this now - as you said - actually implementing it might be another matter - have to work out how to create a midi control message and save as midi file - presumably it can be done with sequencer somehow ?

This has got me interested me in the G70 - should last at least until the G80/Tyros3 hits the market !cool:

[This message has been edited by tony harbour (edited 02-26-2008).]

Hi Chony,
a korg pa800 or pa2x would be a better choice for midiing up to a soundmodule than a yamaha.
I even managed to get the PA800 to control the SD2 soundmodule which has no buttons & no screen. With my psr 1500 , I was only able to access the default gm bank.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by chony:
[B]

Perhaps then, there is a small machine, or a computer program I can put between the two to make this work?

A few of you have mentioned that I should just change to the Korg ... I dunno ... I have a Korg Pa1x side by side with my T2 right now, and I seriously think that the only reason that they have any business is because of their drum samples. The Yamaha is (IMO) better in almost every department.

I did notice an advantage on many of the Korg's sounds, in that they are not over-EQed like on the Yamaha. Although I don't like the sounds themsleves, they at least have a thickness, a body to them, compared with the more tinny quality of Yamaha's sounds. Classic example for comparison is the brass and trumpets.

Chony

Hi Chony,
apologies.
I didn't read your post correctly.
i was assuming you were refferring to melody sounds wheras you want to replace the bass & drums in a style track ??
If so,
I tried a similar setup with my psr 1500 & sd2 sound module.

I had no problem editing the styles so that the correct program & bank changes were called up.

Where I did run into problems was, the psr midi setting for midiing up external gear. The setting is for "all the style tracks" to play internally or externally. You can't assign the bass & drums to external & the rest of the style tracks to be played internally.

This was an immense problem for my sd2 because it doesn't have any buttons to mute individual midi channels ie I needed to be able to mute all the channels except for bass & drums.

Even if I was able to mute the rest of the channels , there was still no way to mute the drums & bass in the psr itself.
I'd be getting both the psr & the sd2 playing the bass & drum sounds.

There was a way of tricking the psr not to play the internal drum sounds by choosing a non existent bank. The SD2 does it's bank changes via MSB instead of LSB & MSB. Doubt that would work with a motif??


best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by chony:
[B]I'm thinking of buying a Motif rack to replace the annoying sounds on the T2 - mainly the bass and drums, but I want to be sure - will it work? Has anyone tried it?

Thanks for the info. It's a realy pity the Yamaha's don't have more MIDI flexibility. I would be able to put together a KILLER system with the best of all worlds.

Chony

Does any one know when the Motif xs rac will be on the market?

Rikki, something you said caught my attention!
Do you mean you can midi out of the Yamaha into the SD2 and have the SD2 play all the style parts transmitted from the Yamaha?
Also the right hand parts?
I'll bet that sounded great! Can you elaborate?
Thanks,
DonM

Hi Don,
yes, the sd2 can be midied up to a psr.
I had my sd2 midied to my psr1500 for the odd user style only. I didn't persist with it after i bought the PA800 , as it's a far better controller .

Problem with using the sd2 and psr combo with internal styles would be the xg drum mapping,( sd2 is gm2 as you're probably aware). You'd also have problems with megavoice styles.

I only tried using it with converted user styles. Provided they have gm drum mapping the only other thing you'd need to do is change the bank & program changes to suit the sd2.
As far as melody voices go, you'd only be able to use the default gm bank. There is no way of programming the correct bank changes for melody voices.

It worked the following way.
PSR provided the style data, options for sound play
Internal psr for melody tracks/ sd2 for ALL style tracks.
Internal psr for style tracks/sd2 for melody tracks ( default GM bank only)
SD2 for melody & style tracks.

My initial idea for trying it was so that I'd have access to the ketron Live Drums for any of my sd1 styles I wanted to convert. Ended up being rather a lot of work as I had to convert the styles using midi to style. EMC couldn't convert the Live Drums drums correctly.

If I'd just wanted to use it as an alternative normal gm2 soundsource for user styles, it probably would have worked ok.

I'd have to get my thinking cap on as to how I midied the 2 together & the settings I used. It was quite a while back.

As I said though, really only suitable for user styles.

best wishes
Rikki.

Thanks Rikki, don't go to any trouble. I was just curious as to how it worked and sounded.
I'm very happy with the SD5 right now.
DonM

Rikki,

I just did a little research and discovered that SD2 thing
you were talking about. It was just a bunch of letters and a number until now, and I didn't pay much attention. But now that I know what it is:

They say that the Ketron has the best drums - even better than the Korg. Would you agree?

Also, when you hooked it up to your PSR, did it work well? When you muted the PSRs drums (using that workaround you described), did it sound good?

I just noticed that you are Australian! I'll be in Sydney for a month late April, maybe we'll meet!

Chony