Good post, Chas...your points are right on.

Ian

Chas very well said!!

So Zuki.....how did the G70 do at your party ;ast night....you did play it ?

Spalding and chas both have good points.

I guess each of us have a natural tendency to want to welcome a new member to 'our gang', those that choose and appreciate whatever piece of kit WE personally chose, and the tendency to prematurely announce a 'purchase' when in truth it's just an 'audition' gets us on this roller-coaster of emotion.

It's all anticipation at first, the unconcealed glee that something new is on the way. Then the happy announcement 'It's arrived!'. We gear ourselves up to help with the transition (you KNEW there'd be a transition, didn't you? ) and the next thing you know, it's 'Anybody need a new arranger? I'm selling my new one!'

Talk about a letdown! Spalding's point is well taken... We all like to think that we can help, assist, make life easier for the adopter, and have often spent quite some effort to assist a new buyer, only to have that effort appear wasted when the arranger is discarded after the briefest tryout. Not much of an incentive to repeat the procedure for the next mayfly...

But the idea the an arranger purchase has to be perfect OOTB, with virtually NO knowledge of the OS, or any appreciable effort to find third party styles to fill whatever gap in the ROM styles there is (and EVERYBODY can find a gap in the ROM styles of EVERY arranger) is crazy!

I can just imagine firstly, the glee in the Yamaha camp were I to announce I am getting an S900, all the offers of help I will get, all the attaboys... Then the disbelief as I tell you 'This thing is awful... It doesn't SOUND like a Roland, it doesn't operate like a Roland, it doesn't have the same styles as a Roland, it doesn't FEEL like a Roland. This is the worst arranger I ever played!'

And you all go 'Duh..! What did you expect?'

Or maybe I simply go 'I hate it. It's for sale' and don't even bother to tell anyone why I hared it! Oh, the gnashing of teeth! But that's what's going on here. Zuki somehow seems to think that we're going to get upset with a negative review. As if!

But perhaps Zuki might be more worried that, as his opinions come to light, they might be founded on things that a simple fix exists, that he hasn't taken the time to ask about. Can't get a feature to work the way you expect it to work? You can do one of two things. Give up, or ask someone. Can't find a style that you need for a particular type of song? You can do one of two things. Give up. Or ask someone where you might find this style.

Now, I consider myself reasonably familiar with arrangers, but I was discovering things that the G70 could do MONTHS after I got mine. Some of them quite fundamental to how I play. Even though it's another Roland, there was enough difference with the G1000 that many things needed re-thinking. The G70 (nor any other arranger, IMO) comes OOTB the way I expect it. But had I given it as cursory an effort as Zuki, I wouldn't be playing it now. And that would be my loss.

So Zuki... Trust me, my nose isn't going to get bent out of shape if you bother to explain WHY you passed so quickly (especially as you still had your main gigging arranger, it's not like you didn't have TIME to explore if alternatives to your regular workflow existed). Why not take a little time to just explain your decision..? PERHAPS you might find that others that have been happy with the G70 for years now MIGHT have a workaround for your problems.

You'll never know if you don't tell us...

In the meantime, I guess I'm just going to have to put a brake on my efforts to help Roland adopters, at least until a couple of months after the purchase. I'm getting tired of this being a waste of time.

OK - My opinion only:

The G70, in a nutshell, is just too busy for me. The 8 and 16 beat styles have major glitches and do not follow my changes in time - what the hell? I tried everything I can do to make them on time and can not. Why do these boards continue to have major style glitches?

The same with other styles in various genres.

There are only a couple big band I could use.

I think the Latin and Bossas are OK, but not that great.

There is really no soft stuff. Roland seems to think they have to be busy to be good.

The guitars are plain weak and I cannot find any styles that showcase an unplugged feel.

The Grand X piano is brittle. The other grand is fine.

I like some of the synth leads and the fabulous scat, but not too many sounds after that.

As I compare a song like Begin The Beguine on the G70 vs the S900 - there is no comparison. Roland has not thought through the process of adding very cool variation changes as the song progresses. Never mind not having very cool breaks and intros and endings that give total song configuration. However, I found a fabulous PA800 style that worked awesome for that song. The string mulipads and very cool variations were fantastic. That's what I use. Roland doesn't support that.

I played the G70 for hours again and just came back from another hour on it. Sorry, don't like it - at all.

For me, the PA800 blows the G70 away. The 800 would be one that I would take time again to work on and may consider if I sell the G. (I also play it at GC on a regular basis).

zuki

Zuki Im gld you said in the opening this is "your opinion"

Again as I stated in a previous post before commenting I would really like to hear a few demo samples of these so called glitches on the styles you mention on the G70...without hearing any of these broad descriptions while your playing is pretty pointless to continue to figure out what someone is discussing, especially when Myself & many others haven't experienced anything like that.

Zuki,

You should try the Pa2. If you like the PA800, the PA2 adds those sliders which allow you to completely shut down the backing tracks other than the Bass and Drums. I love that features because it removes some of the cheeziness of the over-the-top styles.

Al

From my previous post-

Looking at Dnj,Don M,Zuki and also others that I know in my own personal Xperience.
going from Yam and (Technics) -to others --coming back to Yammy again

These symptoms are very common.
Once you use Yam arranger (even if you used Korg ,roland,Ketron),it's harder to go back because your tolerance for Non sense OS becomes lower.

Quick sound and style selection,onboard buttons for quick select(for other func),weight-price-sound-versatility ratio ,simple yet versatile styles (both classic and contemporary),quick effective fills,playing style drums sync'd with SMF , the list goes on.

Angry with their hardware,Keys,VH ,no 76 keys,some sounds(where competition is good at) ,but the ease of use,OS,3rd party support(meaning from others -not support from YAMAHA) and versatility beat the competition out of water.


You have to give a diehard Korg/Roland fan a yamaha arranger,make him gig with it(not in a band -OMB that uses styles) for a several weeks and he'll never go back once he taste the logical OS and freedom while performing .

we are taliking about ARRANGERS only .Not WS.WS wise Triton beats Motifs easily(aleast the first two).

If a player starts to use less backing styles, then they tend to go other way.

Again this is for arranger style using gigging musicians,home players with$$$ or SMF players- a different story.

Pleae feel free to add whatever you want.

I don't have time to demo glitches. Believe me, they're there. They're on the Ketron even worse and a very few on the Korg. The Yamaha is pretty much glitch free.

zuki

Al sounds like you're really enjoying that PA2.