While I do like the simple/generic operation of the Yamaha....I can't imagine going back unless they come up to par with the key feel and vocal inputs. I can play all night on a Korg arranger with no discomfort, but those flimsy Yamaha keys make it a chore to get through the first 2 hours for me.

O/S aside ...... I can't go back.

Like in my post , the reason someone dislikes yamaha is mainly hardware(key feel,less keys,construction), VH and some XG sounds and over Equalization.

But almost never with styles (western music), OS for OMB playing.Like in my post if you use less styles, more SMF or only as drum machine ,you have other options.

S 900's guitar styles(ac guitar/bass drums -3 piece combo type) beat everthing in the market including PA2x,SD5 and G70s.


Why? because they put more $ on style programming, OMB play.They know that styles and logical OS/buttons play very important role in an arranger.


Individual sounds (except for SAs)Korg has the edge (more body and depth).

Again we are taking about arrangers,to play arranger live in OMB situation.Not in a band,not @ home ,not SMF or using LH bass.old I30 can do the job without any problem.


Most of us here will buy a Yammy arranger module in a minute.Or if Yam put better and more keys/ improve VH - competition will have a tough time to compete.


BTW -I'm a mostly Korg user(both Ws and Arranger)(also Rolands)(who used to bash Yammy for sounds/hardware etc), but in recent years I really can't stop noticing them doing it right in arranger department ,having total control in realtime without problems, getting less (busy)is more approach,etc.

Example-
think about pads that plays loops (only started in PAx series -not PA series)(while Roland still sleeps).Yammy have been doing that for years in their cheap models like 55x series.PSr 2k had it and PA 80 didn't for eg.I would love to have that and USB to device feature as an ARRANGER PLAYER instead of dual sequencers with primitive display for example - yes talking about lower $1500 -psr 3k and 1500).

BTW- Roland HAD the technology(yes before Korg) -1995 -XP 50's RPS realtime phrase sequecing feature- a multipad like feature -loops that can be assigned to a key(without following chords BTW), Korg followed that feature in their N series.But Roland's R'n'D dept did'nt think they should put the feature in an arranger.Yammy did and stole the market.

Go to a dealer, turn on a s900, press the 1st style group button and choose - 60's guitar pop or 90's guitar pop,choose a silde nylon SA as your RH voice,change the style variations and compare that to others including PA 2x and SD5.You'll understand why Yamaha is sucessful in making real world styles for western/international pop rock arranger and the reason why they sell well.Compare that to others Including unplugged styles of PA 800/2x pro.

In Yammy ,you can -(Sync/change) your poorly written(downloaded drum track'd SMF with your styles.Meaning -
Your 70's SMF will play with a contemp snare style of mid 2000s).
Logical layout - in sound section press (mony/ply button),DSP ,R1 /R2 instant mute/on/select PHYSICAL buttons, the list goes on.

I hate to press tempo buttons though (in KORG the wheel will take care of it,also double pressing a button will go the the next page)_BUT you have to press A/B button to change sound/styles selection in Korg-poor design continued from PA 80.).Yeah ,Korg's songbook saves tranposed data - but other disadvantages as an ARRANGER makes that little.

Any KB builder can make a good sound- Motif ,Fantoms and Tritons are the proofs.

But can they make a GOOD ARRANGER with GOOD styles to be used for live play for a ONE MAND BAND?(NOTin a /homestudio/live band or partially using as a drum machine using LH bass)-.

Yammy is doing arranger job quite well (and getting away with it's deficiencies -hardware,VH, no real seq etc) since competition don't get it.

I want all arranger makers to compete in doing a GOOD ARRANGER.

We don't need a WS, not a 8 track recorder(good to have as long as they don't take out other must haves), not putting a fancy superficial new feature and omit(Dbeam in and Chord seq out in Roland,yes I know I can trigger D beam) or weaken a major feature or put a must have physical button under sub menus or A/B buttons, saving $ in wrong area (like PA 500 not having lights for pads, taking away bass inversion button),Or not having a feature at all (Multi Pads in Roland),etc.

Just a thought and advice to some.




[This message has been edited by jamman (edited 03-02-2008).]

jamman

That was a very good read !!! Thanks

I must say, jamman...that was a great post...you made some excellent points/observations.

Ian

I am going to add my 2 cents..

Zuki..the common denominator with the Ketron and Roland glitches problems the past week...........is Zuki..

While you still have the G70..try the intelligent recognition ..It will read chords and may be more forgiven with poor timing issues..And yes ..in this mode it will read major chords with one finger..Don, it plays correctly , that is why you never found it to be wrong..In Standard mode you need to play the chord..And piano mode will not read unless a 3 note chord is played..

My observation..maybe the Roland processor is more powerful..it seems to me..to recognize the chord changes precisely when applied...and not at the end of any particular beat or end of measures..

Maybe this is why Yamaha seems to be smoother[forgiving]..

The final decision of what is right for you ...is yours..

Personally, I would not switch or add[a module] a Yamaha...The quality is not there, and the sounds are too thin...I don't like the way it responds to the key playability..

For others..it may be fine..

On the poor drum adjustments mentioned with a SMF.. Here the problem was/is solely a Yamaha drum problem [hand claps }..

It is nice that the Yamaha can add the drum pattern play in place of a SMF drum track...It is more than nice..it is a necessity, due to the poor drum kit that Yamaha decided to map and call them GM..

Just bringing up an opposite view of things already remarked...

I noticed that some of you guys are mentioning the PA2x.
Well I heard it, and I am blown away. I mean just the thought of BALANCED OUTPUTS impresses me! I think there is nothing else on the market that can compete with that board ( except WERSI = monster ).

It seems that Korg is paying more attention to what users demand.

Zuki. Don't give up yet. Good points made by all here. However, this is a different beast than the Yamaha that you are used to and endeared to. I have the G-70 and it took me a month to just get used to it. I played PSRs for 10 years and they seem to be more forgiving with your chord fingering. If you play the chord correctly and on tempo it will give it to you perfectly.
My second post on this board after I got the G-70 was THIS MIGHT BE TO SMART FOR ME.
As an organist I found that I had become
sloppy with my chords (3-4-5 fingers). Once I tuned up this thing was a whole different instrument and became a real PLEASURE. The key feel and the 76 keys are unsurpassed. You should really try and spend some time with it.
I play 4-5 NH gigs a week (I assume you are playing this venue by your Begin the Beguine example) and have never felt that the styles are to busy.
Try a few diffent styles that you might think would work. For example with Begin the Beguine try the Bolero style in the Ball room styles. Even in the Music Assistant there are great matches. Try Sentimental Journey with OTS. Awesome. Or Ticket to Ride with Live Band, Real Band. And if you can sing the VH is as good as it gets. Give it a little more time cause it doesn't seem that you are under pressure to have this up to speed right now. Hopefully the more you play and explore you ears become more comfortable with what you hear.
And if this one doesn't work out, good luck with the next one.
Stay Happy
ScottC

Thanks for the tips. I suppose my sloppy fingering is the problem here, depsite 40 years of experience.

I just now tried a few different latin styles and the very same thing. Immediately turned it off - styles are not balanced and instruments do not sync in time with each other. The instruments making up the styles do not meld properly. Maybe it's the complex chords I play from jazz books (the correct chords).

If Roland has to be hit dead on, with no error margin, then it's not for me. Besides, I tried and tried without success.

Funny, I don't have that problem with Korg (a few styles only) or Yamaha (basically none).

My escapades the last few weeks shakes down to the T2 or the PA800/PA2X.

zuki

I, for one, am interested in the complexity of the G70, plus the build quality. In reading the manual I couldn,t find what the PA 800 calls "ensemble", for block chords,duet etc. I am sure I just missed it.

If you are interested in trading, e-mail me.
Bernie

Zuki, I always play complex chords..4 and 5 fingered chords....I didn't know there was another way..

I am not having the problems you describe..

The balance issues may be better if you updated the OS..When I bought my G70 ..it had 2.1..I didn't even play it...I immediately installed 3.0...