I've read quite a few comments about how much some of us HATE certain songs, or even performers, sometimes to the point of refusing to even play them, no matter WHO requests them..!

I am just curious WHY...

Personally, coming from a classical and jazz background in my early days, I feel that just about ALL popular music is simplistic, both melodically and chordally, and don't get me started about how banal most lyrics are! But yet, that is the very charm of it, probably the reason for its' popularity with the general public. But I certainly don't honestly hear much difference between one writer and another. They all use basically the same chordal vocabulary, and lyrically few stand out as poetry or better...

So why do we end up absolutely LOATHING one guy (or girl), when, in any objective analysis of the songs we hate show us they are no worse than anything else out there? Are these songs TRULY bad, or have we simply let ourselves be influenced by other musicians' attitudes, or the nature of the folk that usually request them?

Obviously, I can understand about rap and hiphop, which is usually foolish to even attempt on an arranger, but some of us get SO worked up about stuff that, if you didn't KNOW who wrote it, is indistinguishable from any other stuff of the same genre. Is it repetition? It shouldn't be, we probably play 'Fly me to the Moon' as many times as stuff we hate! And imagine the poor classical musician, going "Oh no! Not bloody Beethoven's 5th again!" about one of the finest masterpieces ever written!

So what, exactly, DOES get our goats? Are we being snobs, or is there a real reason for it?

Comments?

Why do some people prefer French apples and wouldn’t touch English, whereas others prefer English apples and wouldn’t touch French.
It’s just Human Nature to be different
No logic in it, but so what.

Bill

Some songs just rub me wrong ... I can't always explain why, they just do ... examples - The Impossible Dream", "Memory" from "Cats", to name two ... singers - the late Robert Goulet, Celine Dion, Maria Carey, and others ...
One song I HATED to play at St. Patrick's dances was "Stack of Barley", but didn't mind the "Irish Jig" or "MacNamara's Band" ...

t.

IMO Hip-Hop and Rap are NOT music. I like all the other types of music--I just like some more than others. I don't hate any of them! Each song has its own, special attributes, and because I'm not a TRAINED MUSICIAN I guess I'm not smart enough to determine which songs just don't cut it. I like Jimmy Buffet, I like 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and even some 90s Top 40 tunes, and so do my audiences. Hate? NAH!

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

Gosh, what a suprise. Truth is, I'm not a big fan, either, but recognize that such a strong response is usually either generational or cultural. In my case, it's generational. I not a big fan of Metal, Country, Oriental, Turkish, Arabic, Schlager, 60's Rock and Roll (Bill Haley, Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry), or chamber music, but I'm not ready to pronounce it "NOT music". That would seem a little arrogant and a tad judgemental, even for me. On the other hand, you did preface it with "IMO", so I guess that makes it ok.

chas

Hi

There is too much "hate" in the world by now.
No need to "hate" music; just dislike it and dont listen to it!

Regards
Jørgen

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The Unofficial YAMAHA Keyboard Resource Site

"HATE" .....just another forum Buzz word that take a thread south......maybe a Thesaurus is needed to desensitize the written word.

Diki, I'm one who may have misled folks about my attitude. I really don't hate any kind of music or performance done with professionalism and sincerity.

I have just positioned myself as the jazz standard bearer around here, mainly because all the really good ones have passed on and I'm "it"!

I don't take jobs where country music is appropriate, and run away from gigs where Jimmy Buffet (UGH) music would work.

And, I've paid the price for my choices, in terms of limited venues and prevailing compensation levels. Add the fact that I'm not much of an entertainer, and you can understand why I take a back seat to a ham sandwich and am the "go to" guy for upscale background music.

Luckily, around here, at "high end" events (government jobs, corporate events and thoroughbred industry jobs), people are intimidated into thinking that it's "cool" to have the music I play (Jazz, smooth jazz, standards, Fusion, and Stevie Wonder, Tower of Power, Georger Benson, Earth, Wind and Fire...even Sly Stone kinds of tunes).

From years of doing studio work, I enjoy playing all styles. It would be a gas to back my friend Don Mason on his material. Steve Warner is a frequent visitor to one of my regular jobs, and is very kind to me when commenting on my stuff, and J.D. Crowe, the Grammy winning Bluegrass music guru, is a close friend. I've done graphics and copy for his early albums. We've even played together some.

But when it's my gig, I would avoid their styles and selections. That's just not what I like and do.

I don't automatically hate any performer, although Tony's selections of "UGH" performers hits pretty close to the mark for me.

I have chosen to not be a generalist and am happy with the niche I've created. Others here (on the Zone) do it differently....good for them! Much continued success to all, however you do it!


That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

"Grumpy old Russ"

Man at my age you can be obnoxious as hell and no one can do a damn thing about it. Of course, I was this way as a teenager, when I used to tie my horse up to the old hitch-n-post....

I can't say I dislike any particular song or artist...I like to stretch out and try and cover all genres.

Since I play all instrumentals, it is a challenge in any type of music to keep it interesting, and therein lies the fun.

"Country" music needs as much discipline as Jazz...just a different kind...I wouldn't want to limit myself to either one.

Playing "Buffet" is not for everyone...takes a special set of skills to do it right...some just can't handle that type of discipline.

I love it for what it is.

Getting older shouldn't bring with it a narrowing of scope.

I don't ever want to end up a musical curmudgeon.

Ian

Good discussion! I guess it's all about personal beliefs and what your purpose in the music business is. The first time I heard a Buffet album, about 1976, I think, I thought there wasn't enough substance to even bother with it. I laughed at what I thought was a complete lack of substance. If there are players without the proper focus to handle it, I believe they're in big trouble.

But, if you're a generalist/entertainer, Buffet is probably required. and i can see some having fun playing it.

Not for ME, at any age! I'd get laughed off the bandstand at 90% of my jobs.

Ian, you may be right about the skills required to play country compared to jazz. Rory is a killer country player who plays jazz at least as good as me, a hard-line jazz dude. I'm not sure. All I know, is, it takes major dedication to stay on top of your game in the jazz arena, with little time for anything else. With most types of music, you just have to be adequate. In jazz, if you're not the best in the field, you don't work.

Please remember, this is my opinion and my approach only. I would never try to impose my beliefs on anyone else, and I'm not saying that jazz is a superior art form over other styles for anyone other than me.

I would feel comfortable on a country bandstand, as would many experienced jazz players. I think it involves relatively easy to pick-up structure. I can't come up with the names of many country players (other than guys like Steve Warner, Vince Gill, Glen Campbell (yes THAT Glen Campbell) and Rory who could, without major woodshedding, step up and play Foreplay tunes or heavy standards like Giant Steps and others. It's possible they wouldn't even want to bother. What I consider crossover-Asleep at the Wheel and Bob Wills style-is interesting and fun to play, from a historic prospective.

If this attitude is viewed as rigid, it's pretty common among jazz "hard liners". And it's not as much related to inflexibility due to age, but to major lifetime commitments to an unbelievably complex, beautiful true American art form. Once you make the commitment, you're hooked. You can't bring yourself to be satisfied playing Buffet or anything else. Every day is a learning experience, with limited benefits outside of respect from your peers, a limited number of fans and personal satisfaction that comes with progress. This facination/addiction is, in part why the jazz "gods" of the past were often involved with drugs, were starving, anti-social, etc.

I'm "hooked", but find comfort (and a lot more income) in the film score work we do, and other business related interests (graphics, copy, research, film production and other endeavors).

This is how I got to where I am in the music business, and I wouldn't change a thing, even though music income is less than 20% of the total and I would have loved to do it full-time.

And that's why I could play Buffet or anything else with others (I'm in heaven when I back others and make them sound good), but would never play it on one of my gigs.

If that ever means I can't work, I've done well enough for it not to matter much (man, I'd miss it, after over 50 years, though).

My reality is, I really don't hate ANY type of music or specific performer/musician, but I love and live jazz so much that I'd never be truely happy playing anything else. Man, what a "natural high"!

So there!

Everyone: Play what makes you HAPPY!


Russ the jazz "dude"



[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 03-13-2008).]

Good points Russ.

I get a high from playing country, and it's the same high I get from playing jazz.

Never had the feeling that jazz was a "top of your game" thing...always it was case of being able to pass on the "high" I got from playing, to my audience.

Works no different in Country or any other genre.

Besides...country and jazz are both music of the people....that's what I like about them...they "connect directly" as a friend of mine always says.

Of course, like yours, these are my opinions alone...I don't worry too much about if they don't fit what someone else feels they should be like.

Too bad we're so far apart...it would be a pleasure to catch your gig.

Ian

Same here, Ian.

Be well!


Russ

Well, I'm glad this thread hasn't 'gone South' yet...

Actually, I'm a little surprised at how few are even willing to admit ANY prejudice in their musical tastes. Kudos, everybody!

For myself, I only tend to be prejudiced away from playing musics I can't do well. It doesn't mean I don't LIKE them, it's just that, if I can't bring anything to the party, I'd rather not come. Bebop tempo races are beyond me, I find it hard to be creative for more than a couple of blues tunes in a row, hiphop and rap aren't what I call 'player's music', although listen-able (at least, some of it!), it's more of a loop jockey's job than a keyboard player's...

But I'm glad that things are more open minded 'round here than I thought!

Good man, Diki. It takes a secure person to identify styles we don't excell at. And we ALL have them...me certainly included.

You're also right about the measured politeness with this thread. I enjoyed the exchange of ideas and opinions with Ian and really don't disagree with any of his points, which were articulate. He took it "easy" on the "old man",and I appreciate that.

What this has done is allude to the wide diversity in the music field; both in terms of style, ability, preferences and approach.

Thanks much for starting one of the more intelligent and useful threads to appear here in awhile.

To me, this was a meaningful dialogue.


Russ

This certainly proves that, even when the topic is one that could cause friction, we can all share opinions and learn from each other.

I certainly have.

Russ

For me personally, I like all music, but I do have some issues with some songs, for example:

Mustang Sally - every bar band and garage band in the country plays this song and when we get requests for it I cringe. There are a bazillion other songs I'd rather play

Any song with BagPipes. The hair stands on the back of my neck when I hear this instrument and I just want to scream!

Brandy, your a fine girl - maybe it's because it was played every hour on the hour on the radio when it was first released. I just cannot stand this song. I just don't like to be forced to listen to a song.

there are so many more...

One more point of view:

I come from a (would be) Songwriters perspective on this subject - and not a very good one!

To me: a song is a song, no matter WHAT Genre.


I think it's players, (pure "musicians") who pick what side they're on Genre wise. I'm only concerned if it's a "good" song.
(Let's not go into what makes a good song or a bad song - that's another thread entirely!)


P.S. There is ONE Genre I can't relate to (No, not Rap or Hip Hop - they're perfectly valid musical forms - they've been around for about 25 years now for God's sake!!) but DEATH METAL (and it's sub categories) I can't get a handle on. Mainly because of the Vocals, i.e. understandability of Lyric content and questionable Melodic structure.

Maybe we as musicians dislike some songs the way they are....but, we also as musicians have the ability to change them making them appeal to us in a better way, change styles, tempo, arrangement, sounds....be creative on those certain ones that rub ya the wrong way, dont let em beat ya .... & "Be A Musician"

Changing a tune may be good for US, Donny, but is the public going to accept it ??? ... All depends on the audience ...
t.

Tony .....they've already accepted it when they are listening to a cover done by another artist versus the original.....
so your half way there already, depending how much spin you put on the tune is up to you but in most instances coupled with a bit of creativeness I'm sure you can swing it.