I've finally figured out why there is so much disparity on this board in our views on arranger keyboards. It's simple, really, and I'm sure it's been brought up before, so no epiphany here.

Aside from the usual cultural, generational, and economic biases, and of course, brand loyalty, I believe that the biggest source of disagreement is the fact that we belong to three (3) separate and distinct camps and that we tend to judge, opine, defend, recommend, love, hate, everthing relating to arranger keyboards from the perspective of our individual camp.

There is -
1. The true 'working pro' who uses an arranger KB, along with vocals, as the centerpiece of his/her act. This person usually operates as a OMB and derives most or all of their income from performing.

2. The true 'working pro' that does NOT use an arranger KB (or uses it sparingly or in a subordinate role - to say, a piano or organ). This person usually owns one or more arrangers and enjoys playing them but not 'tinkering', setting up, experimenting, "delving deep", creating styles, fine-tuning, and other 'geekey' stuff.

3. The home player. This category (like the first two) could be subdivided even more, into say, well trained amateurs capable of playing at a pro level (but now the demands of being a doctor, lawyer, or corporate executive doesn't allow the time to 'gig' - like back in college), and the largely untrained beginner who now has the financial wherewithal to feed his musical delusions of being a pop star (at age 60) with the help of this marvelous toy. Both of these types are usually pretty well-heeled (along with being gadget freaks).

Most of the people on this board fall into one of these categories. Obviously, both their needs and desires, in terms of arranger keyboard features, is going to be very different. The 'working pros' are going to be most adamant about their opinions, believing that their 'pro' status makes their views and opinions more valid than the other guy's. In truth, it does, FOR THEM. In fact, there will even be disagreements WITHIN this group depending on things like type of music played or whether or not the person is a vocalist (built-in mic input, harmonizer, etc.).

The point is, there is no single 'right answer', but a reasoned, rational, (and civil) response can still provide good information even if it's biased towards your particular group. So, let's agree to disagree; politely, but not to the point of boredom. After all, we're big boys (and girls).

chas

[This message has been edited by cgiles (edited 03-15-2008).]

[img]http://aimtoday.aim.com/kisses/main_redesign.adp?kid=shutup[/img]

Chas ..I agree with you...this time...

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 03-15-2008).]

Don't forget the ex-pro who bought the arranger for his home studio so that he can record cover tunes and annoy his friends with said recordings...

Take care,
dan

CHAS

I take offense to your whole premise....I am ONLY 46 with musical delusions of being a pop star....You've been talking to my 15 year old daughter huh? She says to give it up....lol

Actually I don't even OWN an ARRANGER OR A KEYBOARD ....was considering a purchase and may now just RECORD another original tune with session players...

But this is my favorite forum...

What you guys need to get through your head is we are all different...with different gifts, strengths & weaknesses musically , emotionally, & spiritually...

I can't do what you can do but maybe just maybe you can't do what I can do....And that is what makes me unique as an artist...There is only 1 me....There is only 1 you...

Be the best you can be and take your chances...I STILL believe I have a hit song in me...even in todays music scene & in spite of my age...

If I don't believe it no one else will...

Great Thread Chas



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Steve A

http://www.soundclick.com/stevealtonian

Having been a progressive member of all three groups I have to agree you are onto somethng.
I am now happily ensconced in group 3 with no aspiritations or delusions of grandeur.
I can now record my music and share it with a couple hundred people on my email lists who tend to like what we share with each other.
So......those of us in this happy group don't need to get in here and tear everybody else apart that doesn't share our joy of non competition in anything.
Best to all,
Bebop

Good, reasoned post, Chas. By the way, the C-1 with the Midjay used as a drum source isn't bad, I use the 7 note foot pedal for breaks, intro's etc. Not ideal but better than not using drums or using an arranger instead of a C-1.


Be well,

R.

Chas, a well thought out post. I fit mainly into the first category. What I've come to realize though, is that the pissing contests that get started here are one of the things that make this forum great. And because there is so much info going back and forth about all the products, when I do decide to get something new, I have all the knowledge I could possibly use to make the right decision. It's a great place to be.

Ciao,

Joe

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Songman55
Joe Ayala

The biggest curse of this forum, IMO, is brand loyalty...

As I've said many times, these are NOT our grandkids. They are keyboards. Made without consulting us (the customers) most of the time. And rarely perfect...

But you will seldom get anyone to admit this. Even those that hop from one arranger to another will seldom criticize an arranger while they use it, and often, not even afterwards. We are SO afraid of talking about the flaws (many deny ANY exist) for fear, perhaps of looking foolish for having bought it that often important issues get denied, defended or ignored.

But it is WE who really need to talk about such things, and to make potential customers aware of the limitations, and to make industry lurkers (if you made arrangers, wouldn't YOU lurk here to get a finger on the pulse?) aware of what our needs and priorities (and diversity) are.

You want to get worked up about something? Get worked up about your PLAYING, or your choice of music. But rushing to the knee-jerk defense of your buying decision, and being unwilling to admit ANY flaw is counter-productive. An arranger's STRONG points are debatable, different people have different priorities, but an arranger's WEAK points should not be hidden, as they effect us all...

Great comments Chas.
( haa haa )
best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by cgiles:
[B]

cgiles ..... I think you have hit it right on!!
I have not played professionaly in quite a few years. I do not have the time now that I had years ago for my music, when I played professionaly. I do have a lot of years with arranger KB's!!! I play every chance I get!!

I have to strongly disagree (Couldn't resist.)

I'm not sure why people get upset when somebody 'bashes' their keyboard. As long as its not personal or racist, I think that we should be adult enough to be able to hear somebody strongly disagree with our convictions. The one thing I can't stand is reading the disclaimer that many people attach to their posts "This is just my personal opinion; everyone is free to disagree."

Are we in kindergarten? Of course its just your opinion, and of course everyone has the right to disagree, and of course I don't think that you are less of a human being for it.

I dunno, it seems that people take their keyboards a little too seriously. I think I'm going to publish an insulting cartoon of the Korg Pa1x and publish it in a Danish newspaper. Let's see what happens! Go Yamaha!

(Note to Yamaha: you're next if you don't fix the drums in the next Tyros.)

Chony

Not that it matters, since you guys obviously got the idea, but I did make one glaring omission when identifying the 'camps', and that, of course, is the semi-pro, aka the 'week-end warrior'. In fact, this group probably comprises the largest segment of keyboard purchasers. Additionally, they have needs that may be different from either the home player or the full-time pro. Didn't want to leave out this very important group. BTW, I'm guessing that this group is made up of younger adults, trying to make it to where most of us are now.....has-beens.




chas

I agree, each one of those groups could be broken down into sub groups depending on how specific you want to get.

"I'm not sure why people get upset when somebody 'bashes' their keyboard."
It really is not about the keyboard, some people put their self esteem and self worth into their opinions.
Such as "I'm more of a pro than you so you should follow my lead because my opinion matters more than yours."
I mean really go back and look at the arguments and they all break down into one form of I'm more of a pro than you. I get paid so well, I work so much, I don't hafta work work so much, those are all the things we use to "zing" each other.
In my "PRO" opinion..........