Hi.

Don't know if this are posted already, but at a dealers website here
in Norway following news are to read.
I'll translate the best I can, so pardon me if any fault grammar.

____________________________________________
Quote:

Yamaha Tyros 3 will arrive this autum 2008.

This week we could hear and see from Yamaha that Tyros 3 most truly will be delivered in
October 2008. (This country I guess)

It should not be named Tyros, 'cause this is an unbelievable highly improved keyboard.
Tyros 3 has many new styles and have much better sounds called SUPER ARTICULATION 2.
This sounds very good.
Sorry that we can't show any pictures yet, but if you can imagine the Tyros 2 inside the
body of a big Yamaha PSR900. (Whatever that means?)
It have a big colour screen who are motorized so you can run the screen up and down.
The price for the item will most likely be around the Tyros 2 price, but we're not quite
sure yet.
More new update as soon as we know any more.

Quote end.
____________________________________________

They (shop) also mention that the take reservation (booking order) for delivery this autumn.


Thought it would be for any interest for some of you Tyros adicted guys out there

Happy Playing & posting, and not to forget, HAPPY EASTER as well!

GJ

Btw, the addins in (bla bla) is my personal remarks.


[This message has been edited by Gunnar Jonny (edited 03-18-2008).]

Great News cant wait oh Yeah!

Thanks Gunnar Jonny for taking the time to translate and share that info. I will certainly consider it if it is offered as a module.
Ciao,
Jerry

Thanks for the update , and please , keep them coming !!

Here is a link to a Yamaha forum that has a T-3 tread going:
http://www.yamahapkowner.com/forum/index.php?topic=10833.0

Gezzz , I hate waiting !! LOL

Take care,
Gary 

What's with the motorized screen gimmick these days???

(And why mention it so prominently???)

Because they want to distract you away from the fact that they haven't added a Chord Sequencer?

Or maybe the prestigious Yamaha design team is sick of hearing that S-900 players CANNOT SEE the display screen without propping the unit up from the rear!!

Motorized or Manual can only be an improvement!!

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 03-18-2008).]

I reckoned that there would be a Tyro3 this coming fall. Yamaha has a propensity of releasing TOTL arrangers about every 3 years so this comes as no real surprise to me.

Well I'm glad Ian over at the PK club is apparently fully recovered from his surgery. He seems to be as spunky as ever too.

Best,
Mike

Spunky? Moi? Nah...I'm too lazy.

Tyros3 will be pretty special.

Ian

Good to see you back to your ol' self Ian.

I'm glad the surgery went well and there were no complications, correct? I would assume not since you're posting here and over at the PK club and your remarks seems as feisty as ever. lol

I haven't been able to visit SZ as often as I would like these last few months as I've been pretty busy but it's good to see the gang is still doing good and for the most part behaving themselves. Hopefully I'll be checking in more often now that some personal business has been taken care of and be able to stay more current with what's going here at the Zone.

Best,
Mike

Cool, buddy...good to see you back.

I'm doing okay...have to wait a few more weeks before I can gig...no lifting gear.

But, I'm doing lots of playing and practicing.

Yeah...everybody is behaving lately...kinda nice.

I hope to get a T3 on my sample account in the fall.

Ian

WOW! This is exciting news indeed. I cannot wait. I'll be on the pre-order list. I'm happy to hear that Yamaha is calling it a different name - that indeed indicates that they're looking at this keyboard as a complete upgrade and not just improvement of the T2.

Chony

Chony...as far as I know, the name will be Tyros3...it's become like a recognized model name(like Motif) and I doubt very much that Yamaha will change it.

But hey, what do I know.

Ian

Finally something new to talk & drool about....since the Korg Pax series is old news now & Audya's questionable release date. This should be an interesting wave of events!

Hi.

My self I think that the screen should be moveable, motorized or not, on every keyboard
with LCD or backlight displays.
On both SD1 and G-70 it's a bit difficult to see if you sit down, but OK if standing when
play.

Cheers
GJ

Unless Yamaha addresses the Harmonizer, 76 keys, MusicFinder inadequacies, Live Drums, lack of real-time sliders, XLR Microphone jacks, Organ Samples, they won't be acquiring any of my money.

I'm fed up with the way they meet the needs of their customers.

------------------
Al Giordano
http://www.arrangerworld.com


Tyros 2, Korg Pa2xpro, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums, Roland TD-12 Vdrums, Roland SPD-S.

Well, Al, the Tyros3 definitely won't be having 76 keys...so perhaps that will be a deal breaker for you?

What keyboard will you buy instead of a Tyros3?

Ian

Al I share your view on 76 keys, harmonizer and Music Finder. Yamaha could learn something from Korg's Songbook feature. Not only is it simple to use, but it can easily be configured on the fly.



[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 03-19-2008).]

Why not just wait for the product to be released and see what features it incorporates.

I don't get it. The keyboard you want exists already. Why don't you just buy the PA2x?

Chony doesnt he have a Pa2x already?

I think Al is like me. He wants 76 keys and other pro features but we both like the extraordinarily good sounds that emanate from Yamaha arrangers and/or workstations and ultimately we would like to see all of those "extra" pro features incorporated on a Yamaha totl arranger. But since Yamaha has "so far" shunned producing a 76 key totl arranger it has frustrated many a yammie loyalist and as a result some have jumped ship like Al and Stephen and many others I would guess. That is the main reason I didn't upgrade to a Tyros2 even though it had the super articulated voices on board, etc. But now with other choices on the market from Korg and still others on the drawing board like the Audya (which hopefully will be released before years end) , it may no longer be necessary to stick with a Yamaha arranger keyboard product even though they're coming out with SAV2 or whatnot. Those that want 76 keys have options available to them and those choices appear to be very competitive in the sound department to Yamaha's arrangers.

I suppose Yamaha still feels that the 76 key market is too slim for them to make a reasonable profit. Plus it would be hard for them to come back to the 76 key arena after years of absence and then try to make a dent in Korg, Roland, and Ketron's already established foothold on the 76 key market.

I still love my Tyros and I would buy a 76 Tyros3 in a heartbeat if the other criteria on the Tyros3 met my needs - which I have little doubt that it wouldn't. But the slight minor detail that will be missing on the Tyros3 i.e. "76" keys will be a deal breaker for many a yammie fan, including me unfortunately. Sigh... What more can I say? I've pleaded and begged to coerce Yamaha into changing their obstinate mind and once again make a 76 totl arranger. So now I just try to take it all in stride. Yamaha will do what it wants no matter what the consumer or even their own customers plead for them to do apparently and if that is the case then so be it. Like I said, there are other options on the table and those options are looking better all the time.

Best,
Mike

PS: I think I will always be a Yamaha fan as to their keyboard products and other audio equipment, etc. But if they are unwilling to give me or others what we want (as in a "76" key totl arranger) then what can I do? I will have to shop elsewhere, that's all.

That would be to easy

Yeah, what fun would that be?

A Tyros 2 inside the body of a big PSR 9000?

I think I'll pass on this one...

I suppose because the Tyros3 will be silver, it will resemble the PSR-S900 quite a bit...I heard a rumor that the panel buttons will be different as well...maybe more integrated looking.

I can easily live with 61 keys on an arranger so the lack of a 76 note keyboard won't matter to me.

Ian

Andrea, not 9000, PSR S900. Either way, doesn't make much sense to me!
DonM

The overall look will be similar, but the Tyros3 will not have built in speakers like the S900.

Ian

Why not just make three models 61/76/88 like the old days & let players choose.!! They still do it with synths?

Don,

I'll pass anyway...

Darn. This (announcement) is going to make it a lot tougher to sell Zuki my T2. To bad I'm such a packrat, shoulda' unloaded it ages ago. Anyhoo, let's hope the new one sounds more like a Korg .

chas

I purchased the Pa2xpro 3-4 weeks ago and Sold the Tyros2 2-3 weeks ago.

So long Yamaha!!!!

The Pa2xpro has met all my needs. It has a few quirks, but overall I'm very pleased with it. It's a very nice board.

------------------
Al Giordano
http://www.arrangerworld.com


Tyros 2, Korg Pa2xpro, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums, Roland TD-12 Vdrums, Roland SPD-S.

Good for you, Al...glad to see you found the right keyboard for your needs.

Have fun.

Ian

Hi Ian,

You mentioned that the T-3 will not have speakers built in , do you know if they are going to be using the same speaker system that they have for the T-2 or will it be a new system ?

Many thanks

Take care,
Gary 

Hi Gary,

At this point, I don't know what the Tyros3 will be using as optional speakers.

Ian

One can only hope and pray that the new SA2 voices have the same attention to detail and playability as the old T2 voices. Because, for whatever reason, Yamaha's use of the SA voices on the MotifXS series has NOT been as resounding a success as the T2 implementation, and many MotifXS users are screaming for the same SA programming as the T2, which apparently does a LOT more for the player in the background, rather than leaving it up to switches and foot SWs to trigger the SA elements...

Thanks Ian

Take care,
Gary 

Diki,

Because the Tyros3 will be considered a "home keyboard", the implementation of the SA voices will probably remain relatively easy to use.


Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 03-26-2008).]

You are exactly right Diki. I briefly owned an XS7 and the Expanded Articulation System (which is actually suppose to be an advancement of the original SA voices on the Tyros2) did not produce the same quality of sound that you get with the SAV voices on the Tyros2. Therefore I can understand why others who bought a Motif XS would have similar feelings about the XS implementation of SAV's as being inferior to the SAV's on the Tyros2. I noticed it right away on my XS and it was one of the reasons I chose not to keep it.

If the SAV"2"nd generation on the Tyros3 even remotely resembles the Expanded Articulation System on the Motif XS it would be a step backward in my opinion.

Hopefully though, Yamaha has listened to the complaints about the poor implementation of the Expanded Articulation System on the Motif XS and the SAV"2" of the Tyros3 will not only be different but better in every regard, including what's currently on the Tyros2. We shall see in roughly eight months or so what sonic improvements (if any) the SAV2's will bring to the table. If they are substantial then Yamaha will probably sell a boat load of them to keyboardists who feel 61 keys is sufficient for their needs. And as we already know there are many who feel that way, although there are many who never did feel 61 keys was sufficient and there are some who no longer do, including me. But Yamaha is still sticking to their guns even though the facts are staring them in the face. >> I know someone will retort and say that the fact is: "61 key keyboards are the most popular sellers". Yes, but the other relevant fact is there is a considerable market for keyboards other than the ones with only 61 keys. Yamaha realizes that fact too and has made provision for it in the lower and middle end range of their arranger keyboard line with multiple 76 key models. And they also do the same with the top of the line workstation segment with a 76 key Motif XS, which of course also includes an 88 key model. Why Yamaha totally disregards the 76 key totl arranger segment is very mystifying to me and from what I've observed, to a multitude of others as well. Steve Deming and of course Ian have relayed to corporate headquarters the desire that many of us have for a 76 key totl arranger so we can't fault them or any of the staff at Yamaha U.S. No, the lack of response is from Yamaha Japan who ultimately have the final say regarding any and every product design decision. And so far it apparently still hasn't gotten through to them that there is indeed a viable market for a Yamaha 76 key totl arranger. And I'm not sure what it will take to "open their eyes". It may be as simple for them as starting to think outside of the box. But getting them to do that could be like pulling teeth. In other words, it might not be easy and it could be next to impossible. Thank goodness there is Korg, Roland, and Ketron who continue to have a deep concern for those of us who want a totl arranger with more than 61 keys. I honestly feel sad for Yamaha, because in my opinion they are missing out on a great opportunity; not only for themselves in expanding their bottom line financially, but also in fulfilling the segment of the market who are eagerly desiring a 76 key totl arranger from them.

Best,
Mike


[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 03-19-2008).]

If 76 notes are in such great demand, why are their sales figures so poor?
The Ketron SD5 outsells the SD1, the Roland E80 sold more in 6 months then the G70 has in its entire life, and the Korg PA1x outsold the PA1x Pro by at least 3 to 1.
As you can see, there is not such a big demand for 76 notes as you think there is.
Oh and BTW the Tyros 2 outsells all of them.
Welcome to the Real World

Bill

bill,
the demand for 76 is great.
but in all these examples you gave, sd5, pa1x and e80 have on board speakers!!! this is also a great demand, even though seperate from 76 keys...
i believe this is the real reason why they sell better.

Could it be as simple that 64 keys and speaker versions are aimed for the home
market, and 76 keys and no speakers are
aimed for the "pro" market, who mostly
have PA systems to carry the sound?
Also I guess that 76 keys are preferred when play "pianomode"...
GJ

If 61 note keyboards are the ONLY PSR's and Tyros's that Yamaha make, OF COURSE the majority of sales will reflect people's 'preference' for them, because THEY HAVE NO CHOICE!

The only way to find out what people's REAL needs are is to offer both sizes, and find out from that. Factor in the decreased cost of a 61, and naturally, you are going to find the majority want this size, but the cost of simply tooling the case larger to accommodate a 76, with no other changes made, is negligible. It's not like making a whole different keyboard.

So Yamaha ought to consider that those who MUST use 76, MUST use another manufacturer, probably something they would prefer not to happen. Surely the cost of tooling up for this would be MORE than offset by the large numbers (there are more than a few right here at SZ that have expressed this need - are we representative or not?) that want this product, and brand loyalty is prized when you are going for market dominance. To FORCE loyal Yamaha users away from the brand once their skills progress past simple LH chords RH solo techniques cannot be good for them...

I guess Yamaha figures, "if it works...don't fix it".

A wise decision, to be sure, at least based on reported sales figures and overall customer satisfaction.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 03-26-2008).]

I'd like to know where everyone is getting their sales figures for the market share of 61, 76, and 88 key keyboards? I'd like to see some official numbers posted.

I find it hard to believe 61 keys outpace 76 keys since every un-official poll I see asking users which they would rather have 61 or 76 key boards favors the 76 key by a large margin??

What Gives??

------------------
Al Giordano
http://www.arrangerworld.com


Tyros 2, Korg Pa2xpro, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums, Roland TD-12 Vdrums, Roland SPD-S.

Do you really believe ANY manufacturer would post "official" sales figures on a public forum?

Get real!

Ian

Al sounds like your not happy with your 76 key Korg?

I agree, sales figures aren't something these companies are going to let out, and if they do it's usually grossly hyped so competing companies think they are doing better than they are.

I personally love using a 76 note keyboard, but I actually use less than a 61 keybed.

So other than one manufacturer saying that the market wants 61 keys more than 76 keys, there is no “official” or “real” or “actual” proof or evidence to validate that claim.

Yamaha refuses to listen to its customers and make a 76 TOTL arranger. To support their refusal to carry out the wishes of their customers, they say 76 key Yamaha TOTL arrangers don’t sell that well. And they further state that 61 key TOTL Yamaha arrangers sell better than 76 key Yamaha arrangers.

That argument is just completely wrong and ridiculous. Because Yamaha has nothing to compare. Since they only have a 61 TOTL arranger, then what ever sales they have would only reflect for a 61 key arranger. Also, they can not compare 61 key TOT Yamaha arranger with a TOTL 76 key Yamaha arranger because they do not make a TOTL 76 key arranger.

Thank goodness for other brands that listen to their customers.

What can be more "official" than the information provided by music dealers and customer surveys?

Do you think these big companies need to prove anything to you?

Ian

Of course Yamaha listens to their customers. thats exactly why they are market leaders in this product class. They dont make 76 Keyboard size arrangers because it is a niche market and one they dont want to play in. If they could make the profits from this market that they could in the 61 key market they would produce 76 key arrangers .

They are not stupid or stubborn. They are customer focused. They know who their core customers are . You may not be their core customer customer . Yamaha knows that there are some potential customers that they will lose because they dont offer a 76 key version of the tyros but thats a calulated loss. They are focused on the core purchasers that are fine with 61 keys and who are likely to switch brands if the board is made any bigger. There is no point in offering all sizes to everyone because there has to be big enough profit margins from each of the markets . Clearly there is not enough in it for Yamaha or they would most certainly make them.

Very well put, Spalding. Wish I had your way with words.

Ian

I think it's outrageous to make these claims without bonified statistics to back it up.

I can't imagine going back to a 61 key keyboard unless it's a top of rack board used just for sounds and samples, not piano or arranger playing.






[This message has been edited by kbrkr (edited 03-20-2008).]

Donny, where do you get that assumption??? I am defending the fact that more people want 76 keys than 61 and Yamaha's refusal to create a 76 key arranger is irrational.

I'm loving my 76 key Pa2xpro

Hi,
personally I wish they'd give us an arranger modules instead. Obviously not popular either, though I luved my Korg i5m & Roland RA's. I used to have them midied to my acoustic midi piano ( Disklavier). Unfortunately not the perfect controller unless one luved piano. haahaa.
Nowadays though, there's so many controller options.
best wishes
Rikki

76 keys for me
76 keys for me........................
Lovin' the Pa2xPro, I'd consider the new Tyros but not with 61 keys, been there done that!!

I repeat...Do you think these big companies need to prove anything to you?

Ian

I'd suggest reading Spalding's post again...he is right on target.

Ian

I'm with Rikki! With a module, I can use 76 keys, 49 keys, midi accordion strap-on keytar etc.
Ciao,
Jerry

I find just a bit of irony that a post about a model that is months away from even existing gets this much debate and arguments.. while "how to" threads and "music posts" usually seem to spark pretty much little to no interest.

Nothing much ever really changes here I guess, but I suppose it's because my expectations of it were probably wrong in the first place, and maybe it's the way it's supposed to be. SZ always was what it was and still is what it is.. and what it isn't and has never been is a place for songwriters to discuss techniques, share music or relevant files, or a place to discuss actually getting "under the hood" and get inside of what's here and in already our hands in the present.

I occasionally still look in, but pretty much stay away from here these days not so much because of the arguing.. really I couldn't care less.. but instead because of ( with the exception of a few of course ) the general lack of response to posts that actually contain useful, relevant, and interesting substance... My perception of course, but I'd rather spend my free time playing, creating and learning about something I can actually use with what I have in my hands now. Special thanks though to Rikki, Jorgen, Micheal Bedesem and FLR, ( I'm sure I missed a few more )from whom I gathered so much useful info along with some excellent discussion.

AJ

edited by keybplayer.

You're right Bluezplayer. I was going to post in response to spalding but I realize that it won't solve anything or help the situation. If Yamaha chooses not to make a high end 76 arranger that is their choosing. There is no need to discuss why they should anymore. They've heard it all before anyway.

Best,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 03-20-2008).]

I do think the anger on the Zone over the last several weeks has subsided to a large degree and that is a good thing of course. Objective opinions are always welcome in my book but we have to remind ourselves to do it in a respectful manner. I have to catch myself once in a while to not get so riled up when some of the topics start to flair up. A lot of them I won't reply to but even the ones I do I have to try and be careful not to be inflammatory or step on any toes. I don't always succeed and it might have something to do with the German blood in me I don't know. On the other hand it might be the Scottish blood in me as well.

I myself like to talk about up and coming products, especially the high-end arranger kind. I think the buzz surrounding a new product coming to market is one of the things manufacturers rely on to generate excitement in the product(s) and with the excitement comes the possibility of more sales and consequently will have a better chance to turn a substantial profit for them. Of course it will only do so if the hype turns into reality but the buzz is what starts things in motion regardless of the products eventual outcome.

Best,
Mike

ok just checking...

Very well written post. On the surface it sounds reasonable and logical. But if you really examine the arguments in-depth, again you see the major fallacy in that it is not supported by any manufacturer real or official or actual proof to support the claim.

Yamaha can not say a TOTL 76 key arranger will hurt their sales. That is because they have not made a real good working and reasonable sized and weighted one.


If the argument is that: what we had before was good then we would not do any thing to improve from the last one, and we would not try to expand our market, then Yamaha is in bad shape and we should not expect any real advancement in Yamaha arrangers.


If you are in business and not trying to expand your market I really wonder about that business strategy.
But then you here the cry “arrangers are a small market and they don’t have that high sale volume”. Of course that would be the case because you are not making the arranger to where more people would buy it and you are not trying to expand your market.

I still have not received an answer to this question. If Yamaha made the next Tyros with 76 keys, with it being 4 inches than the T2 2 LBS than the T2 and the most $100 than the T2, would the persons who would buy a 61 key Tyros say they would not buy that new Tyros for the only reason that it has 76 keys and they hate 76 keys?

Nah, they would not.
They who don't buy, are probably happy with the keyboard already
bought and are very pleased with 61 keys.
Then we have the customers who don't buy Yamaha anyway......

Myself I will stay away as long as it sounds like you're playing
a studiomixed CD on the stereo as soon as you hit a chord.

Ketron and Korg sure make thigs sound great, Roland are close, so
if Yamaha manage to get it sound more "live" and not as cold as
now, I'll certainly take a closer look at it.

Happy Playing
GJ

We are not argueing we are debating and thats fine by me. no anger on my part in any of my posts :-)

First of all Yamaha the corporation has several divisions for keyboards. They have the digital piano line, arranger/homekeyboards line , the pro workstation lines etc

Each product has to make a targeted profit from its sales. But overall yamaha need to increase their total profits accumulated through their combined sales. There is a fine balance between maximising the sales from one division without cannabalising sales from another division. It would make no sense for T2 sales to increase at the expense of Motif sales for example.

In fact thats the basis for a good illustration :-)

A yamaha motif ES keyboard owner wants upgrade his instrument. He needs a workstation. He would initially like a 76 key keyboard and is drawn to the top of the range motif XS retailing in th UK for approx £1400 however he is blown away by the SA sounds in the T2 61 key arranger keyboard which costs £2100. He cant afford to buy both so he buys the T2 with 61 keys . The Home keyboard/arranger line profits but at the expense of its motif XS range. The production/marketing costs for the T2 and the Motif are not the same because of tyhe differnt volumes produced and the niche market of home/arranger keyboards.

Go to the motifator website and you will see that this was not a dreamed up example. There have been about a dozen posts on that site since the T2 came out and countless debates about the frustration existing yamaha product owners have concerning their next yamaha purchase relating to either switching to the T2 or upgrading from the motif classic or ES to the T2 in preference of the XS

Yes the T2 costs more so yamaha should stil be making a profit on the difference between the the price of the XS and the T2 right ? Wrong !!! The production costs are very different because of the differnce in volume and scale. the costs of developing/producing variation on the same product i.e XS 6,7 and 8 are a lot less than the cost of producing just the T2 because the costs of the XS6,7 and 8 are shared. but if the T2 is purchase over the XS then the XS line loses that contribution to their fixed costs in producing the motif XS 76 keyboard.

No company can survive if it is not genuinely increaseing its market share against its competitors . Keyboard owners tend to be quite loyal to their brand. Learning a new operation system for example would put me off changing brand. We have already seen on this site people who have purchased an instrument away from their usual brand who have struggled to keep it simply because they were not familiar with the OS of the new brand, and so there is a genuine risk that instead of winning more customers away from Korg,Ketron,Roland yamaha would lose some of its customers from its other products.

If if Yamaha produced a 76 key arranger it most certainly would cannabalise its own pro market keyboard sales . Similarly if they put true T2 sounds on the motif XS it would canabalise its arranger keyboard sales.(some of you guys on here have stated that you would try the motif XS ) Yamaha the Corporation are already sticking their necks out by putting arranger type functions on their pro workstation keyboards. There is a reason why Yamaha keep some of the functions from their workstations from their arranger products and vice versa and it is not because thats what the buying public want. It is to maximise sales from the different product ranges.

So in a very long winded way (my apologies for the long post) there would have to be a genuine busines advantage to yamaha producing a 76 key arranger keyboard and from what i understand (no matter how many times we the minority stamp our feet in frustration) there jut isnt sufficient overal benefit to Yamaha the corporation in doing this otherwise i can assure you, just like any other profit focused company, they would.


[This message has been edited by spalding (edited 03-21-2008).]

[This message has been edited by spalding (edited 03-21-2008).]

Yes I am also debating! I hope my post did not come across as arguing.

I for the most part agree with every thing you said. Especially the part where you discussed that Yamaha has different keyboard divisions. That only goes to underscore my point that it is not the fact that a 76 key Yamaha TOTL arranger would not sell but it would do so at the expense of some of Yamaha’s other interest. Naturally, Yamaha is going to look for their best interest first.

However, I do not see if Yamaha made the T3 with 76 keys; no 61 or 88, that they would loose in the arranger sales of any of their other divisions.

Does any one really believe that if the T3 were to be 76 keys, has the wonderful sounds and styles, the same OS, light-weight, around the same size and price of the T2 that persons would not get it for the only reason that it has 76 keys and not 61? Would it be that damaging to the xs sales for the only reason that it is 76 keys and not 61?
The same analysis goes for Korg and Roland.


That is why I believe that Ketron and Lionstrack are in the best position to really take the arranger market to a different level because they have no competing interest with in their company.

Have you noticed that Yamaha employee's do not participate in this forum any longer ?

When the T2 came out, they were here...now ?

hey we have Ian

Sorry, guys, but the idea that Yamaha make no 76 arrangers because they are worried about scavenging their own 76 workstation sales is ludicrous...

WS players play WSs, and arranger players play arrangers. The cross pollination is negligible. Few WS users even LOOK at an arranger (even if they can find one!), and few arranger players want a WS (no auto accompaniment, or at least, not in the arranger sense of the word).

No... the only sales a 76 T3 or PSR would scavenge would be Roland or Korg or Ketron 76 sales. Which I am amazed they are not interested in.

Yamaha's own CVP series (which at least PROVES that Yamaha know there are players that need more than 61 notes) are much more expensive, heavier and underpowered compared to even a PSR S900, and basically address a totally different market than the T2/S900 - in fact, the VERY market that Ian claims is the PSR's own - the REAL 'home' user, that requires NO portability, but needs 88 keys for the kids to learn to play properly on, and lets Mom or Pop trot out a few of their favorite tunes in front of the fire.

Rather than the T2 and PSR, which are designed for portability, and contain most of the true 'pro' features like Music Finders, MP3 playback, and flexibility FAR in excess of what that poor 'home' user could possibly ever want. No, so called 'expert' opinion to the contrary, the PSR S900 and T2 ARE Yamaha's 'pro' arrangers, but fail at the incredibly simple task of offering note number choice... something that EVERY other arranger maker acknowledges as necessary to a 'pro' line.

But, hey! What do WE know? We just PLAY the bloody things, and pay for them with our hard earned money. How should WE be able to understand what we need..? Yamaha know FAR better than us what we need, and we should be thanking them for making our playing decisions SO much easier. Obviously, if I can play piano, I should NEVER buy a Yamaha. Thanks for that little known information, Yamaha, otherwise I might have gone on wanting to fill MY needs, and where is the profit in providing customers what they want..?

Just keep letting those obvious idiots at Roland/Ketron/Korg/MS feed my delusions...

I'd take Ian over Steve Deming any day of the week. Just kidding Steve! I know you are out there lurking occasionally Steve and I am thankful for that. Happy Easter!

Best,
Mike

I would have never strayed from Yamaha and the Tyros2 if they made a 76 key version. As we all know a number of others here have done the same moving to either Korg or Roland. Diki, I too am amazed they don't want that business.



[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 03-22-2008).]

I disagree Diki...I know the workings of the company far better than you do.

Ian

I know the above has been said by many others, many times before, but it certainly sums up my feelings, as well. In fact, that's more of a turnoff for me than the lack of 76 keys. Just personal preference, though.

chas

If they want my money, they most certainly have to!

I guess your money is going elsewhere...too bad...so sad.

Ian

I wonder how many TOTL and upper level Yamaha keboards are sold in comparison to the mid-lower end models. Although the competitors seem to be able to make 76 and 88 models, Yamaha insists on only 61. As was said earlier, I too mostly use 61 notes, but maybe 20-25% of the time want that extra octave or so. Actually, the Nord 73 is a comfortable enough fit.

Gee Chas...that's why I like the Yamaha sound...a finished sound is ....er...finished.

I'd rather have a candy apple paint job than grey primer.

But...to each his own.

Ian

PS...Did you get a set of speakers for your C1? I haven't had a chance to try the Nord yet...health issues put that on hold for a bit....may get to try one next week.

[

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 03-26-2008).]

Would this be better for the piano players out there?



Take care,
dan

[This message has been edited by big741 (edited 03-22-2008).]

Good one, Dan.

Dan can you tell me the name of the dealer that carries that model

Like I said, Ian, it's just a matter of personal preference. It's sorta' like, if you use an arranger on a gig, the people know it's not you playing; if you use a Yamaha arranger, they REALLY KNOW it's not you.

On the speaker thing, I'm still sort of holding out to see what that new Roland SA1000 sounds like with the Nord. It's supposed to be optimized for organ, whatever that means. My next inclination is to go EV (SX300, I think) unpowered, coupled with the Mackie 808S I already have. I also have a Traynor K4 gathering dust. Not a bad amp, just not right for me. Motion Sound just sounds too darn expensive (and heavy) although it would probably give me the sound I'm looking for. I just want to close my eyes hear a classic B3 w/Leslie 122. BUT, I don't want a speaker system that totally does away with the great weight advantage of the C1. Oh well, the search continues. I've been hoping for feedback from Capt. Russ but I think he's having too much fun just playing the thing . BTW, in the latest Keyboard magazine, the Nord C1 got a nice shout-out from Rickey Peterson, probably the best of the studio organists. Although he uses a real B3 on stage, he says he's 'digging' the C1.

Sounds like your recovery is progressing nicely. I'm very glad to hear that. Yamaha needs all the defenders it can get .

chas

BTW, in this neck of the woods (deep south), grey primer is perfectly acceptable (it's better, of course, if you only do one fender). Now, let'w see. Ol' Fart + Candy Apple Green convertible....ehhh, I'll pass.

Good Lord! Been away from here for a couple weeks and a monster post appeared. From the title I figured something new and exciting was being covered in depth. Then, after three pages of scanning, it's the same old--same old.

For everyone that must have more than 61 keys under their fingers while performing, but something from someone else. Don't bitch about something you have absolutely no control over--it's a waste of bandwidth.

If you don't enjoy those Yamaha styles and voices, BUY SOMETHING ELSE! Yamaha produces and sells more keyboards than all the others combined for a reason--they did the research, then produced a product that sells. It's not rocket science. Sure, they read this forum, and I'm confident they evaluate everything that is posted, then put things in perspective. Pro entertainers make up a very small portion of this forum, probably less than 10 percent. However, the percentage of pro entertainers that purchase their keyboards are likely less than 1/10 of 1-percent--yep that's the market they're going to targe--NOT! If you like what you read and hear, buy that Yammie, learn how to effectively use the operating system, and as Don Mason always says, "You too can make hundreds of dollars being an entertainer."

As for the Motion Sound speakers, well I own the KP100, have upgraded the speakers, and beyond any shadow of a doubt it's the WORST sound system I've ever owned. I forgot who made the post pertaining to them, Chaz or Diki, but you can take it to the bank. IMO, they're overpriced, have no bottom end, no top end, and the only reason I have the KP100 is for a backup--just in case my Bose L1 fails.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled program!

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Yep, I hear ya, although a lot of what comes out of the arranger depends on the player, and having a great speaker system.

I manage to make the S900 sound a bit more "live" by editing styles and careful use of effects...I like the clean sound of the Yamaha.

The Motion Sound Pro-145 is nice...lots of oomph, but "hard" sounding...not very woody like a 122, although it does move air rather neatly.

The Traynor K4 is LOUD, but still "hard" and also a bit to heavy and doesn't project stereo very well...it does make a fair combo keyboard on-stage monitor, but I found it sub standard for an arranger.

On my trip next week, the store I'll be working in has two Nord C1's in rental...I'll be there on a Thursday, so hopefully one will be available to try...they also have a Roland SA-1000 on the floor, so I'll get to try them together(hopefully).

Physically, I'm doing well...going back to my martial arts in a few weeks and doing a solo gig in May...a Mother's Day gig at a posh restaurant.

Ian

PS... No candy apple convertible for me either...I drive a 14 year old Honda Accord EX-R...not the ideal cool vehicle, but it's in nearly mint shape, has a sunroof and hauls the gear just fine.

Substance over style.

Hi AJ,
nice to hear from you again.
Miss our chats. Unfortunately we headed in different directions since the good old softsynth arranger days, you to T2 as your main arranger keyboard , me to korg PA800.

If you ever decide to swap, I can fill you in on some of the nitty gritty details on the PA800, I think Korg's improved since the PA80 days. Currently I'm learning to program style tracks in Guitar Mode. Pretty interesting stuff. haahaa.

best wishes
Rikki

Actually, Gary, I have a Pro 3T, and it is one of the best buys I ever made. Why lug around a whole Leslie, when all you need is the rotor on top to give it the realism, especially on the high drawbars?

As to the Yamaha 'sound' and the idiotic notion that, just because they dominate sales (mostly amongst 'home' users, who care little for such things as sound and realism), ALL their decisions MUST, by inference be correct ...

Any corporation that gets it's head so far stuck up it's ar$e that it completely ignores the need of a significant (let's face it, if you couldn't make a profit on a 76, NO-ONE would make them!) portion of it's target customer, and lets them migrate to another brand, where they will probably stay, has a marketing plan that spells disaster. History is rife with has-beens that thought that they knew EXACTLY what the customer wanted, long after the screams for change had died down.

Ignoring the 'pros' and their needs forces many that WOULD have bought a Yamaha product to buy something else. And, let us not forget, a large percentage of first time buyers go out and buy what they see 'pro' and talented amateur players using, and most of those they see in restaurants and clubs, churches and social groups. By ignoring the needs of these more advanced players, they lose valuable advertising and word of mouth.

Many players buy an arranger to recreate the sound of playing in a live band. They DON'T want to sound like they are playing on top of a record (they can already do that at home), they want to sound like they are playing with a BAND... Not one of Yamaha's strengths, either.

But don't worry... I am sure there are a few ex-IBM users STILL re-living their glory days... Ignore your customers WANTS (there are so many who post here with the need for a Yamaha 76 that it COMPLETELY refutes your assertion of how small the numbers must be), and you are eventually destined for the scrap heap.

The truth is, Yamaha is COMPLETELY oblivious to ANY customer requests, whether they be something YOU agree with or not... Otherwise, tell me of the things YOU want improved that they have gotten around to. No?

Didn't think so, either....

This is just silly Diki. I just gave an explanation for the business reasons yamaha dont see the sense in making a 76 key arranger. Ian works for the company (at an arms length ) and understands exactly the very clear business reasons yamaha dont want a small peice of the very small 76 key market arranger pie. Just let it go . You have roland to turn to, ketron to turn to and korg if you insist on a 76 key arranger. If yamaha see enough customers leave in their droves to snap up 76 key arrangers instead of the very successful 61 key version they will reconsider their strategy i have no doubt. Yamaha will not cut off their nose to spite their face !!

But right now yamaha have the most successful line of arranger keyboard in the market and have done so ever since i can remember and they have always been 61 key versions. They are evidence that they are doing something very right and the proof is that their customers year after year by their products in numbers bigger than their competitors and i dare say yamaha are making a lot of money from all these transactions. They no what they do well and continue to do it. Anyone that has ever run a business knows that you dont mess with a winning formula.

Hi Guy`s ,

Here is a good link , it`s in the UK , but it still FIRM info !
http://www.bonnersmusic.co.uk/buy/Yamaha/Tyros_3_With_Yamaha_Speaker_System_

Have fun ,

Gary 

"HOLD ON TO YOUR SEATS!! GET READY FOR THE NEW YAMAHA TYROS 3.

Due to be launched in October 2008.

This is not just a model number change from Tyros 1 to Tyros 2 and now to Tyros 3. Yamaha have re-designed this keyboard from inside to out. This is not just a re-boxed Tyros 2!!

Tyros 3 is a whole new ball game, Tyros 3 has grown up! If you thought the jump from Tyros 1 to Tyros 2 was big then this is one small step for man but one giant leap for technology!!

Bonners welcome your part exchanges, please call and speak to our Tyros3 experts. We have seen Tyros 3 and can talk you through the changes.

Pre order yours NOW. As always, first come - first served, and numbers will be limited.

£200 deposit secures your Tyros 3 from the first UK stock shipment. Remaining balance can be paid the day before delivery to you. You may also wish to take advantage of our 0% finance deals on this instrument.

Price shown is estimated only and is subject to change.

To get your hands on one of these AWESOME keyboards - the Yamaha TYROS-3, call us today on 01323 639335."

Spalding, critics like Diki are slow to catch on to things outside their sphere of influence.

Constant criticism of Yamaha is no more effective that the very same stuff being leveled at Roland on Roland Arranger.com

But if there is anything critics like to hear, it is the sound of their own voice...how many posts will it take before the thirst is slaked?

I always say, "if you can't bite...don't growl"

Ian

Well , I for one happen to like Yamaha , even the ones with rubber buttons !!

However , I do remain open to other arrangers that might come out or ones that are already out.

Right now I NEED more info about the T-3 before I can make my move !!

Later,
Gary 

PS:

Please try to remember that today is but a day ,
tomorrow has not arrived.

in omnia paratus

[This message has been edited by jedi (edited 03-22-2008).]

[This message has been edited by jedi (edited 03-22-2008).]

Yes Gary...and today is the tomorrow we worried about yesterday.