Let's keep the poll clean(ish!)...

76 vs. 61 poll discussion HERE.

I'll start it off...

I wonder if anyone is SURPRISED at the results?

I wonder what the 76 nay-sayers will come up with next as a reason for no need for a 76? Probably they will say that SZ is NOT representative of the market. Of course, that begs the question 'where DO these so-called representative arranger users post if it ain't here...?'

AFAIK, this is the ONLY cross-platform arranger forum with any volume of posts, in English. SZ doesn't seem to be particularly 'pro' oriented (especially from most of what I've heard ), but even if it were, why would that make any difference to the need for a 76? PLENTY of 76 playing amateurs here...

Maybe the poll wasn't scientific enough? Of course, if the results had been overwhelmingly 61, the nay-sayers would point to THAT as proof positive. They can't have it BOTH ways...

Ketron do a great job of producing a 76 with the footprint of close to a 61 by moving the wheels to just ABOVE the keyboard on the LH side, and not using a floppy drive, so the whole 'too big' thing can be avoided by good design, and the 76 speaker-ed Roland E60 is a scant 3 lbs more than the S900 (and built like a tank), so that rules out the weight problem.

If Yamaha followed these guidelines, it would beg the question, why would anyone even USE a 61 if a 76 could be produced along these lines..? Especially for as little as 10-20% more in cost (the difference between an E50 and E60)

Me, I thought it would go along these lines (the poll). Question is, are Yamaha surprised (I KNOW they've read it!)?

We all know that everything to do with mid-TOTL arrangers is purely subjective. The members of SZ are very vocal about their likes and dislikes, for sure. Whether Yamaha decides to market a 73,76 or 88 key version of their PSR arrangers is strictly their business. They seem to be doing just fine with their marketing strategy as it is.

Would they sell more product if they offered an optional bigger keyboard? I would think so, but then again how many of the larger boards would be bought at the expense of the 61 board? Maybe they see the cross marketing of sizes as a no-win situation, who knows. Yamaha certainly offers arrangers in larger sizes - YPG, Clavinova, Disclavier.

I might be interested in a 73/76-key Yamaha, but for now I am satisfied with my E-60 and see no need to go with a 61 Yamaha product. My comfort level is at the 6-octave range. Yamaha will do as it pleases until/unless economics force a change.

The more telling discussion that would probably help manufacturers is
Would an arranger that has 76 keys just by that fact alone deter the 61ers from getting the arranger that have 76 keys?

I could see the 76ers saying that because a 61 key keyboard does not have enough keys, they would not buy it. Can the 61ers say that because a keyboard has 76 keys, they would not buy it. Are the 61ers saying that the extra keys distracts them or the extra keys confuses them.


I mean, if a computer can come with 3 USB ports or 4 USB ports, if you only want 3 would you necessarily reject having 4 because it is not 3?


The poll only goes to show that a manufacturer can only gain by having a 76 key arranger over a 61. What would they have to loose.

The ones who buy a 61 key arranger are not concerned with the keys but mainly the sounds, styles and OS. The one who don’t by a 61 key arranger but buy a 76 key one obviously keys are a major issue with them and as good as the sounds styles and OS are, the number of keys is a deal breaker. We can not say that about the 61ers.

I think one of the REAL questions Yamaha might ask themselves is, if they dominate the 61 note sales, what makes them think they WOULDN'T dominate 76 sales, too?

The thought that they would lose 61 sales if a 76 was available is ludicrous. A sale is a sale, and in all probability, the increased cost of a 76 would increase the profit, also. Win, win for Yamaha.

Remember, only Korg, Ketron and Roland stand to LOSE if Yamaha take this road, and last time I looked, competition is about burying your opponents if you get the chance! Give them the opportunity to thrive in an uncontested market, and you are only one competitor's innovation away from losing market dominance again (Yamaha weren't ALWAYS #1).

Me, I would welcome Yamaha's entry into this market, firstly, to give ME a bit more choice... I think if I were strictly solo OMB, a Yamaha 76 is what I would chose, simply for the guitars, and secondly, to give Roland a wake-up call to not sit on their bums and stagnate.

Competition is good for ALL of us...

Personally when I play ANY 61 keys I have to think more about where to play a part octave-wise....

Now I am NOT a trained player...very basic I might add....ONLY chords right hand with double bass notes on the left...

I've been shopping for a board for 3 months now and though I have $1800 I have YET to find an $1800 76 key I LOVE...

I considered the ROLAND E-60 but there just aren't a whole lot of people playing em which made me wonder.....Plus I think I really want a workstation vs. arranger at this time...and to add a drum machine later

The 61 key workstations YAMAHA XS 6...ROLAND x6 and the KORG M3 all leave me feeling short-changed key-wise....

Though I will probably end up with one of those cause my original budget was $1000 and its a miracle i have this now....

Generally it should only be about a $300 difference between 76 and 61 but there seems to be some discrepencies in my theory with some models...

I just like a little more room on the board thats all....I kinda regret returning my USED TRITON EXTREME 76 BUT THE PIANOS WERE A LITTLE WEAK....and it was a 4 year old unit & was afraid it would dump out on me...

BUT IT WAS 76 keys and for me I prefer it...but the reality is at $1800 I'm probaly gonna end up with a 61

So the quest continues

Steve Altonian
http://www.soundclick.com/stevealtonian

For me, I have become so accustomed to performing with 61 keys, and my little finger of my left hand touching the left edge of the keyboard that having 76 keys would now hamper my playing ability. Sure, I could eventually get used to having 76 keys, but it would take quite a while. 61 keys provides me with all the range I need for any instrument (voice) and I'm very comfortable with the key configuration.

One of the primary reasons I posted the poll was to allow forum members to post their preference without a lot of explanations--just a number says it all.

I sincerely believe that if Yamaha produced a 76 key arranger they would pick up a few sales, but die-hard Korg, Roland, Gem and other fans would not switch for any reason--61, 76 or even 88 keys. Keep in mind that at least one forum member kept his old G-1000 so long that it grew mold and took on an alien life form. Some folks will not change brands, no matter what.

The poll has been very interesting, and in addition to showing that the split is still about 50/50 it also portrays the number of active members here. Granted, it does not show the number of lurkers that never post anything at all, but it seems to be representative of the number of pros that frequent the Synthzone's General Arranger Keyboard Forum. And, as a percentage of the total keyboard sales, I suspect it's a tiny fraction of the total market.

Thanks everyone for participating,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

I am most comfortable with 88 keys. 76 keys would be as much of a trade-off as I would consider, I'm not interested in the least in 61 key keyboards unless I midi-ed them to an 88 key controller.

I know I'm in the minority but thought I'd throw my opinion in for good measure.

I have played 61-note boards for many years, with occasional 76-ers (Roland G800, Ketron SD1, Roland G70). I do fine with 61, but I find myself switching Octaves a lot on piano. All things considered, I would prefer 76.
DonM

Here’s something for you to puzzle over:

The Wersi Abacus has 61 notes, onboard speakers, 8.4” touch screen, Drawbars, Floppy, DVD/CD Burner and USB 2, it is also very heavy (Transportable rather then portable)

The Wersi Ikarus has 76 notes, onboard speakers, 8.4” adjustable touch screen, Sliders, Floppy, DVD/CD Burner and USB 2, however it weighs only a fraction more then a Roland G 70, is no bigger then an Abacus (The height is actually less) and costs a 1/3 less.

Sort of blows the theory that a 76 note board is more expensive to make and has a weight penalty.

BTW The Abacus comes from the Organ line, whereas the Ikarus comes from the Keyboard line. (In case you were wondering)

Bill