If you only enter the marketplace ONE time (9000Pro) with a model that is fatally flawed, while ALL your competitors make a handsome profit (they sure aren't selling them at a loss!) in exactly the same market, it is ludicrous to blame the market! A 'wise company' recognizes when there IS a market, and makes a product for that market, rather than running away at the first sign of failure (that no-one else is having).

I see little 'delusion' going on around here than those that will not see the refutation of their arguments BEFORE they even make them....

Everyone IS making a profit from this sector (including Yamaha themselves with the DGX's), it isn't a matter for debate!

Guys, you've REALLY got to come up with something better than 'I'm right, and you are wrong, no matter the FACTS'... What point of yours haven't I shown to be erroneous?

The FACT is, you haven't made ONE reason for Yamaha to pursue this course that isn't demonstrably false. If NO-ONE made a profit from 76's, then you'd be right. But this is not the case. The truth is, absolutely no-one here has the slightest clue why Yamaha chose not to re-enter this market. Including Ian, spalding et al. You have conjecture, but most of your reasons are easily disproved. If others can do it, then so can Yamaha. You aren't telling me that Yamaha CAN'T compete in this market, are you?

Didn't think so.

Look, I appreciate your desire to come up with an understandable reason for this (it must be difficult to accept that after failing once, Yamaha are just unwilling to try again), but so far, the only thing coming out here is 'We don't REALLY know, but surely Yamaha know what they are doing..?', which after the 9000Pro debacle, you can't really say with a straight face, can you?

But trying to cast doubt on a market that is ALREADY making a profit for several other companies should be beneath you. How about a reason that fits the FACTS?

Just one....

I don't have to come up with a reason because you seem to need one.

It is you who doesn't understand basic marketing.

You make it more obvious with each post.

Ian

I know you don't HAVE to come up with one... I just wish you COULD (to maybe demonstrate this finer grasp of marketing than I have)!

All I can say is, thank God Roland, Ketron, Korg, Wersi, Casio, Lionstracs, Boehm (have I missed anyone?) have as poor a grasp of marketing as I do

You're right...thank God they do...somebody has to test the market.

The early bird may get the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese.

And who wants worms, anyway?

Ian

Early bird? Please Is this the best you can come up with?

They have been making 76 note arrangers pretty much since day 1. Including, of course, Yamaha's own DGX's and the 9000Pro. And THAT failed for reasons that had NOTHING to do with the number of keys.

You know, if it takes 15 years to make up their mind... That early bird just died of old age!

Keep trying... I'm sure SOMETHING you have won't be as easy to disprove. Never give up.

Gee, Diki...I thought the "early bird" thingy was rather good...pity you didn't think so...I'm all broke up.(sniff)

Nothin' to prove...nothin' to disprove...that's me, plain and pure.

That's why I'm content...and you're not.

Smile...save the criticism for something you know...and is sure as heck ain't marketing.

Ian

The word marketing has been used in this thread so many times. But the ones using the word have not stated any sound marketing reasons why Yamaha is not producing a 76 key arranger.

There has been no evidence that there is not a substantial market for 76 keys or that a 76 key would turn away those who have used 61. In fact there has been overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

If the customers who would buy the next T3 found out it was 76 keys does any one really think they would not by the T3 because it is 76 keys? They are buying it for Yamaha sounds, styles and OS. Where or who are they going to run to. If the sounds, styles and OS are the superior Yamaha quality that people are accustomed to and expect, if the keyboard is 76 keys it is not going to be a deal breaker. The fact is Yamaha is a market leader and they like Yamaha so who are they going to run to. The T2 has a funny look but did that hurt the sales? No. Yamaha took a big risk with the look of the T2. But Yamaha new that since their sounds, styles and OS are superior they could take that risk because even if people do not like the looks, the sounds, styles and OS would compel people to want to buy the T2.

Now with a 76 key T3, it is not a risk to Yamaha because it is not giving their customers any thing less. It has no effect on the usability of the keyboard from a 61er prospective.
As most of us can agree, the only effect a 76 key arranger could have on Yamaha is to bring them more profit. It can not hurt Yamaha it can only hurt their competition.

Well, Genny, I must say I disagree with you, but that's okay...I still respect your opinion, even though it is wrong.

The SZ poll is not an accurate depiction that 76 note arrangers are selling well.

Roland's G70 and E-60 are not doing well...and only time will tell how well the Korg PA2XPro will do.

We'll have to wait and see...that's what Yamaha appears to be doing as well.

The second mouse gets the cheese.

Ian

Don't bother stating the obvious, genesys... The complete lack of any facts at all just put this debate into the absurd... Ian's got nothing more than his faith in Yamaha, not a shred of evidence to back up his superior marketing knowledge (as if we haven't ALL worked in music retail at one time or another!). You'd think he'd have something more than platitudes... you know, like the odd verifiable fact. No such luck...

So, don't try to teach a pig to sing. You'll never succeed, and it just annoys the pig...

Working in retail and marketing an arranger keyboard are as much alike as chalk and cheese.

And we all know who gets the cheese.

Ian