Oh common Ian...you nippin' the bottle tonight ....just kidding buddy. Unless Yamaha changes alot of things people will fade away from them for sure....lets see their next hand...it not a "given" in this game anymore......

You may want to read through this thread http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/017291.html

Bill

No, not the bottle...just the tea pot...we Capers do love our tea!

Yamaha is always changing, Donny, and their R&D department is wise enough to make the right changes for the target customer AND for the good of the company.

I'm always impressed with each new generation, and I'm sure the next one will be no different.

That's why I love working for them.

Ian

'keep in mind guys and gals that Yamaha does make 76-key keyboards. You keep forgeting about the DGX series

Lots of neat features and not expensive.

It seems as the folks asking for 76 keys are asking Yamaha to build a Tyros2 with 76 keys, which would entail a complete retooling. This would involve spending huge sums of money for a very small market--it ain't gonna' happen.

Cheers,

Gary '


Thats a brilliant example Gary of yamaha understanding its target customers. The DGX series of 'portable grand pianos' are geared to guess which market ? entry level beginner pianist users. It has some arranger functions but it is marketed as a piano. They dont make them in any size less than 76 keys ! Why ?????? Because yamaha have researched the market that this product is aimed at and they dont want a piano with less than 76 keys and they are not going to buy one with less even if its a T2 with SA voices.

End of story.

And ....oh never mind. Diki if you havent got it by now you are just not going to....

[This message has been edited by spalding (edited 03-28-2008).]

They don't make any good ones? Well, perhaps not for your use, but the Yamaha DGX line is very successful as any music dealer will tell you...and that success means profits for both the seller and the manufacturer.

Isn't that what defines a successful product...the right target customer, the right product, and profit?

It was when I studied marketing.

And, you're right...the S900 and DGX aren't comparable...they are for completely different customers, and each of them is selling very well.

Why do YOU think Roland arrangers aren't selling?

There must be a reason.

Ian

I wish Yamaha had the same confidence as you in the sounds and styles like you do.
So let me get this straight.

Yamaha plays around and make changes to the heart of their TOTL arranger (new “SA voices” taking a big risk) that’s OK. But to refuse to implement something that has no effect on the TOTL market they currently have is sound business sense?

Look guise, the reason why the Yamaha apologist have a hard time with explaining themselves is that they seem to ignore one of the most important things. The reason why Yamaha TOTL arrangers are successful and can make a profit is not because of the 61 v. 76 key argument. It is because of the sounds styles (third party styles) and OS. If the T2 were 76 keys that would not have negatively impacted the success of the T2. Did you ever hear a person say the reason why I bought the T2 was because it did not have 76 keys? But you have heard person say I did not buy a T2 because it does not have 76 keys.


To underscore the point, Yamaha changed the keyfeel in the T2 from what was in the T1. Did you hear any one say I will not buy the T2 because of the change in keyfeel from the T1. Get it? The number of keys, the keyfeel and keybed is not a major factor for Yamaha arrangers its all about sounds styles and OS. So having a 76 key TOTL Yamaha arranger would only increase the success and profit for the Yamaha arranger.


[This message has been edited by to the genesys (edited 03-28-2008).]

I don't feel I am apologizing for Yamaha...I am merely pointing out why they are successful.

They clearly know what works best for them...obviously you don't agree with their strategy, but as you said, "Yamaha TOTL arrangers are successful and can make a profit".

If it is working so well...why try and fix it?

I'm sure if Yamaha felt it would be in their best interest to produce a 76 note TOTL or mid-line arranger, we would see one, but clearly the marketing mavens don't believe it is necessary...at least at present.

Ian

"If it is working so well...why try and fix it?"
I am glad you are finally seeing my point. That is the question I and others, and now you, are asking now that a T3 (an upgrade to the T2) is coming soon.

I don't quite understand your reply...all manufacturers improve on their product with each subsequent model...Korg did so with the PA-800 and Roland made the E-80.

The Tyros3 will, no doubt, have upgrades from the Tyros2...the T2 wasn't perfect(no arranger is)but with new sounds and styles the latest model will surely attract a great following, just like the T2 did, ensuring that Yamaha remains the leader in arranger keyboards.

Ian

Qoute from Genesys

'To underscore the point, Yamaha changed the keyfeel in the T2 from what was in the T1. Did you hear any one say I will not buy the T2 because of the change in keyfeel from the T1. Get it? The number of keys, the keyfeel and keybed is not a major factor for Yamaha arrangers its all about sounds styles and OS. So having a 76 key TOTL Yamaha arranger would only increase the success and profit for the Yamaha arranger.'

You have missed the whole point. The market that the T2 is aimed at (home Market) is not as sensitive to key feel or keybed . However they are sensitive to KEY SIZE and KEYBOARD size! Thats why Yamaha dont move theIr modulation and pitch bend wheel to somewhere else to accomodate the extra keys to limit the size of the board. they dont just throw the instrument together ! The market yamaha are aiming for with their arranger products ARE SENSITIVE TO the position of the pitchbend and modulation wheel. They ARE sensitive to the keyboard size. Yamaha dont make masive adjustments to the keyboard because the market would respond adversly to it. Thats why the OS system stays basically the same through the range. There is a yamaha way which its customers like just as there is a korg way and roland way which their customers prefer.

Does that make sense ?

Another Qoute from Genesys

"If it is working so well...why try and fix it?"
I am glad you are finally seeing my point. That is the question I and others, and now you, are asking now that a T3 (an upgrade to the T2) is coming soon.'

I thought i had explained the magic of making profit before Genesys ? Product life cycle, sales saturation, tweak the product, sell it as a new product again, start the product cycle again etc...

Which part of that strategy did you not agree with ? You can identify it in every product ever made because i promise you every manufacturer does it. And whats more Yamaha plan the release of their new products based upon that sales cycle strategy,AND NOT ON ANY TECHNOLOGICAL BREAK THROUGH. They time the release on the next upgrade based upon that same formula regardless as to when they could have released the new product.

Thats how the magic works. Tjhats how you maxim ise profits. Korgs sales cylce is different in its duration but the pattern is EXACTLY the same.Yamaha does it better than most because they understand their market better than most. It really doesnt matter if you or i or anybody else doesnt. They most certainly do.

It doesnt matter if you dont agree with what i have posted. Thats cool. We have nothing to lose with our friendly banter. But i have to b honest with you , i do get a little frustatrated when people in business dont understand marketing.

There is at least one company i know that doesnt get marketing at all and wastes its time making products that are certainly not suited to arranger players but marketed to arranger players as one and sells itself not based upon great professional styles and sounds which are crusial to arranger players whether pro or homebased but on technology that its target market (arranger players) dont even know how to use let alone wants !

This company puts out both 76 and 88 key versions of something nobody wants !!!

so for you and i this is just a fun discussion. I respect your stance but i am right :-)

I am out of this one now. Cheers

Spalding

[This message has been edited by spalding (edited 03-29-2008).]

[This message has been edited by spalding (edited 03-29-2008).]

[This message has been edited by spalding (edited 03-29-2008).]