sic em Rex!!

Still don't get why you are upset about a refutation of this simplistic point. You are not the only one to have made it, in the past, hence my 'general comments' approach. I just tried to defuse what was an ill-considered reply to it, sorry. I will just try to stay aggressive, and the hell with the passive part if you prefer...

That specific quote is a pile of wombat doo, and you know it. Which your later retraction only goes to prove. Stereo is a FAR more complicated issue, and simplistic posts like that only prove that picking poor arguments to bolster your personal preference (there are WAY too many here that a) don't like the Bose sound, and b) DO prefer to perform in stereo to give you a consensus) only garners scorn.

Express a personal opinion, no problem mate... Try to bolster it with obviously simplistic statements like that, easily shown just plain WRONG, and you deserve whatever you get... (which would have stopped at the first post if you had just gone back and recognized that you DID say words to that effect, rather than try to deny it or explain it away and attack me in the process).

Elitist? I don't give a rats.

Talk about bass Victor is all about bass. He's an awesome player. Let me know how it was Dave, I am very envious of you.

OMG - that show was AMAZING !
Gerald Veasley was in the house and he sat in ... also Bernie Worrell came up for a few numbers ! What a funkfest!

I won a free CD and book and I'm going back to the theater next Friday to see my HEROS - Tower Of Power. I'm like a kid in a candy store.
There are some excellent lessons on youtube that Vic put up for free - anyone that has ever touched a satringed instrument NEEDS to watch this guy play.

He's also very spiritual. He connects music with the soul, and lives his life as if music (who he says is female )"accepts" him...he doesn't create it. Interesting point of view, huh?

What an awesome night. He's coming back to the Keswick in August with STANLEY CLARKE and MARCUSS MILLER ! Geeezzzzzzz......

Dave and Nigel, I REALLy like Victor. Visited with him several times in the Ampeg booth at NAMM, along with Bootsey Collins.

Victor has been through Lexington many times; with Bella Fleck and with other configurations. When he comes through, he sits on the end of the stage and talks bass with anyone who wants to for as long as it takes after the show.

My fondest memory of my long-time friend Ray Brown was at a Louisville three bass concert about two years before Ray died. It was Ray, Victor and Edgar Meyer, a Grammy winning academic from a school in Tennessee. Ray invited me up. Victor was respectful and all three, who had met only hours before, put on a hell of a show. Music collaboration doesn't get any better than that.

Victor is a great person and a fabulous player.


Russ

(Sorry, been away gigging)

Yes Diki, you've made it very obvious you don't give a rat's about opinions (other than yours) on this matter, every elitist worth his salt does that.

Why don't you quote my entire post elaborating on what I meant?

(Which was)

"Thing is, the Stereo image concept only works if you're sitting in the sweet spot FOH. Move to the left or right, or significantly back from that spot, and you not only lose the Stereo field and any instruments painstakingly panned left or right, you get a biased listening field (too much lead guitar, too much backing vocals, or Strings, or Tambourine (!) or what have you."

Which is far from simplistic and indeed an accurate summation of what happens.
(you can add "IMHO" after that in your own mind if that makes you feel better).

The only simplistic thing around here is your use of the quote editing system.

Before we derail this thread any further (what was the original question again?) I'm going to start a new thread, because there's something else happening here other than Diki's classy tactics.

When I start that thread, you will see, and all are welcome to participate...

P.S. Deserve what I get? What did I get? Not much from what I can tell.

Not much, I agree. But enough to get worked up about it, anyway...

The rest of the quote is still erroneous.

"Thing is, the Stereo image concept only works if you're sitting in the sweet spot FOH. Move to the left or right, or significantly back from that spot, and you not only lose the Stereo field and any instruments painstakingly panned left or right, you get a biased listening field (too much lead guitar, too much backing vocals, or Strings, or Tambourine (!) or what have you." (just for appeasing your sense of quote etiquette)

How FAR to the left or right..? How FAR back (at least there you state 'significantly', whatever that means)? If you meant 'stand next to one of the stacks' that's what you should have said. Moving to the left or right does NOT lose the stereo. Period. Until you are SO close to one stack or another that they drown the other out. VERY extreme, and not stated (but perhaps meant)...

The so called 'sweet spot' is at the apex of an equilateral triangle, with the speakers at two corners. Let's say your speakers are 30ft apart. That makes the sweet spot about 25ft out from the stacks. Stand 25 ft in front of one stack, if they are 30ft apart, you can still hear the other stack (try it if you don't believe me).

What you fail to take into account is that, in a real band, the guitarist has a stage rig, the bassist has a stage rig, the keyboard player has a rig, the drummer's gear is up to 6ft wide. Stand close to the stage, and you get an unbalanced sound, too. Doesn't stop anyone from doing it, though, does it? In fact, it adds to the realism ('cos it's REAL ). Why should a stereo rig, trying to emulate a real band be any different?

You weren't panning anything hard left and right, were you? Because that's not realistic in the first place. The guitarist doesn't stand on one edge of the stage and the bass player on the other and the drum kit isn't 20 ft wide... Pan things at 10 to 2, and those close to each stack don't have anywhere NEAR the problem hearing the 'other side'.

If you are trying to sound like a real band, a point source ONLY gives a sense of realism to audience members that are SO far back that they would have got NO positional cues from a real band. And that, my Aussie friend, is a LONG way away..

As for 'elitism', well, in truthfulness, I don't see any more respect from you towards those with opposite views than you are getting. It IS a two way street... And if I try to bolster my arguments with facts that are demonstrably wrong (or incomplete), I don't expect, nor seldom get, much slack. If 'elitism' is simply disagreeing with inaccurate facts, sign me up!

I do pan instruments, many instruments, sometimes extremely (as in the case of "ping pong" delay kinds of effects) and sometimes not at all (obviously bass and Drums - although ironically, many keyboard drumkits - Toms/Percussion specifically - are panned in and of themselves).

So realistic or not, like it or not, some instruments are panned in ALL my sequences (in my Case) and I gave MUCH more attention to all the little Stereo field details than they deserve.

Why do I say that?

Because like I said (if you go back and re-read all my posts in this thread - and hey quote them if you like) you will see Stereo (for me, if you like) becomes MUCH less important in irregular venues and venues with side seating. It only has it's full effect on the dancefloor - and THAT'S assuming the dancefloor is directly in front of the speakers, which, as I have said before, is sometimes not the case.

Side seating IS in fact, usually too close to one stack or the other, I thought that was a given.

In the future I will be more careful with my erroneous posts, which are not erroneous at all, but rather not detailed/spelled out enough for yourself and others Diki.

Look, no problem... your decision.

Re-read my posts, and you'll see the little bit about using the Mono out jack when things are irregular. Solves THAT problem lickety-split..!

But use a mono PA, and you deny yourself the opportunity to use stereo when the venue IS right for it. It's easy to make a stereo PA mono. But impossible to make a mono one stereo...