All i want to say is that yamaha lost a lot of potentiall customers because of Tyros not having 76 keys version..

They all went for Roland or Korg..

That's a great assumption Bachus...but is it really true?

Perhaps the music dealers are telling you something different from what I've been hearing.

Roland 76 note arrangers are selling very poorly...so maybe it must be Korg that is taking up the slack.

Well, time will tell just how many Korg PA2Xpros are sold...then we will see.

I feel the demand for 76 notes is overstated....except here on SZ, of course, where nothing is ever exaggerated.

Ian

I think the demand for 76 key arrangers (or even 88 key weighted all in one arranger workstations) is bigger then ever, but only in the top class boards...

Overhere in europe, arrangers have a broader market share then synths..... And i personally can't just imagine that people can work with only 61 keys...after having tasted the possibilities of 76 keys or more... I can effectively have 3 zones on a 76 keys board.. Or even have a better range when playing piano style...

Ever after switching from a 76 key GEM to a 61 key tryos i have been seriously missing those extra keys..

But you might be right Ian... My vision might be tainted because of my own experience, and many people like me stick to 61 keys, because they allways have had 61 keys and don't even realise how 76 keys really makes a differenece

It will be interesting, Bachus, to see how well the PA2XPro sells...maybe if it does well, Yamaha will make a 76'er on the Tyros-4 or even a Tyros-3 1/2

I like the 61 note S900 because it is not only very light, but it is also quite compact...great for gigging.

Ian

As long as gigging doesn't involve playing a full(ish) piano part. Remember, Ian, a LOT of people use SMFs AS WELL as arranger mode. Put a rhythm section behind you that doesn't require you to input the chords, and all of a sudden there's that temptation to play a piano part (or Rhodes, whatever).

Which, of course, if you got yourself a 61 to save you maybe 5 lbs or so (probably the difference between an S900, and an S900 with an NP30 action) and about five inches (difference in width) is completely out of the question. Now, I admire your purity of spirit, and your contention that any piano part MUST be played on a weighted 88, but I've got a sneaky feeling that you probably DO play at least a RH piano pert on your S900 from time to time. Oops! There goes THAT rule!

So, for those that want n arranger, but also want to use SMF's and free the LH from time to time, the 76 is the best tool to be able to do BOTH. It's not the BEST at either, but it's the only thing that can do BOTH.

I am not certain about your shows, but every gig I have ever done since I started using arrangers involves both Piano AND organ parts, sequences, arranger play AND full live play. No one method does it ALL successfully. So, I either take a 61 AND an 88 (apparently, no concern for weight with THAT rig!) or I use a 76. And, apparently, so do a LOT of others, here.

The funny thing is, Ian (well, it's ALL funny, really ), I guarantee, if Yamaha DID make a 76 S900, that's what you would be playing, rather than haul that 88 around. Just like us, you would admit it wasn't perfect (oops! sorry... Forgot who I was talking to! ), but it would be the best compromise between the two.

I can only hope Yamaha help you out of your dilemma, Ian, and you can join the rest of us 'home keyboard' players with more options in our playing style...

It usually doesn't Diki...I always gig using arranger mode.

The 88 note piano is for my personal stuff and for keeping my chops up...I don't see me taking one on a gig in the near future, unless it calls specifically for some solo piano...that's why the P85 is so appealing...it's less that 25 lbs and has graded hammer action...not a problem if I needed to take it with me.

Just think...both my keyboards together weigh about the same as your G70...and I have the benefits of SA and mega voices...plus 88 notes of terrific hammer action IF I choose.

Not bad...eh?

IF S900 had been made with 76 keys, I doubt if I'd be using it for solo piano...semi-weighted just don't feel right...that's not that hard to understand, is it?

I'm glad for you that your G70 does it all, at least for your needs...so rejoice with me in the fact that the S900 does it all for me as well.

Ian the Contented

Kind of makes those sequencers and audio file playback features equally useless, then, doesn't it..?

Why don't you try to get Yamaha to drop THOSE features, too, if their feature set is supposed to be what YOU would use, only...?

Or do you think that the scream of indignation by those that DO use them for Yamaha to return them would be harder to ignore than the noise being made by the MANY that would use a 76 if they made one?

I like it when you're on a roll.

Yes, my G70 laden friend...the S900's sequencer and audio recording are wonderfully useful to me...I make CDs with them...great for promotion.

They are truly terrific features...that's what makes the S900 such a great bang for the buck.

Ian

76 keys is a compromise for playing piano parts, no doubt about it. You would be missing a whole octave worth of keys i.e. 12 extra that are on an 88 key keyboard. Playing piano parts on a 76 key semi-weighted keybed is a compromise also, especially if you've been accoustomed to fully weighted keys. It is a compromise Ian, as Diki stated also, but least it "is" an 'option' with Korg and Roland, who apparently seem hell bent on providing their customers with other choices in arrangers than just 61 keys even if it means, God forbid, that their bottom line might take a small hit because of it. It's what they call in the business world as putting the needs of your customers as top priority and above everything else, including your "bottom line". I know you are unfamiliar with the term because you work for a company who has indoctrinated you into their financial corporate policy and belief system which is survival above all and at all costs and the customer be damned type of mentality. I for one am glad Roland and Korg have chosen a different 'path' to meet their customers expectations and needs and give them what they want i.e. a 76 key option, for the simple reason that there are many of their customers who have a strong desire for and need 76 keys and who won't settle for a mere 61 regardless of the features or sounds..

Getting back to the question as to 76 keys being a compromise: yes, it is a compromise, but semi-weighted is better than nothing especially when the manufacturer in question doesn't provide an 88 key mid or high end arranger option either i.e. Yammie Central no less.

Although the 76 key may be semi-weighted they are usually substantially lighter than their 88 key cousins and narrower as well, which makes for easier manuvering and placement inside a vehicle, or on stage for that matter. There are other benefits of 76 keys over 88 keys as well, like costing less for one.

When one company so arrogantly chooses to snub a good portion of their customers and/or fan base and relegates them to either 61 keys or 'nothing' can you therefore see why there may be so much rankle among so many because of what they perceive as Yamaha's bottom line driven 'financial' incentives with total disregard to their customer base and/or potential customers? Okay, maybe you don't Ian. Nevertheless, that ever present reality is still staring you and Yamaha in the face however you or Yamaha wish to deny it or say it isn't of any relative consequence. Don't be too sure my friend.

Best,
Mike

PS: It has been estimated that up to 80% of the population cannot adequately handle or properly appropriate negative input or feedback. I hope you are not in that vast percentage of population Ian and I apologize if I have somehow offended you in any way. More importantly, I hope your Boss isn't in that category either because ultimately these comments and feedback are not directed at you personally but rather at your Boss who is headquartered in Japan. You are just the punching bag that has been given and bestowed upon us by your superiors and we're really sorry that you have to take the brunt of the blows as the go-between of there original intention and ultimate destination - i.e. Yammie Central. We do thoroughly appreciate and enjoy your company though and hope you continue to stick around.

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 04-21-2008).]

Wow! Makes me look like a Yamaha lover, doesn't it, Ian?

Mind you, I an QUITE sure that NONE of Ian's bosses have in any way whatsoever encouraged him to come here and 'take one for the team'. He seems perfectly happy to take it on the chin for no other reason than sheer bloody mindedness. Perhaps an admirable Canadian trait... who knows?

It's pretty obvious that Yamaha Japan would not choose a part time demonstrator of arrangers from a small area of Canada, and a user of their middle of the line arranger series, no less, as their main spokesman to the arranger community. Although sometimes he makes it SEEM like he is speaking for them, and knows insider secrets of the Yamaha Illuminati that we mere plebes will never fathom, the truth is, just like everyone else here, he is merely speaking his OWN opinion. And, truth be told, has no more FACTUAL knowledge of WHY Yamaha make corporate decisions than you and I.

So keep a tablet of salt handy for his posts. I sure do...

But he sure seems to ENJOY being our whipping boy, doesn't he?