http://www.lionstracs.com/store/informat...eb17fa27937cdd4

Enjoy

Bill

Check again this night..( I go in swimmpool now...to much hot here in Italy...but also on SZ..)
I will also upload some new midifiles songs played with the new GIGA soundbankGM2 V.4.

Sounds now start to be really amazing!
I upload also the relative midifiles used, then you can compare with your keyboards too.

Enjoy what you play.
cheers

to my ears, honestly, the sounds are pretty common, nothing extraordinary. it might be the leveling which is not done right, but these VST giga-sounds, in the styles from the above link, are just boring.
might very well be just me, but i tell you the truth, i had to stop the playing after 10 seconds for almost all (five) styles i've tried. hurt my ears.

sorry...

Has anyone at Lionstracs considered putting an MS and a T2 or PA2X Pro (or even a G70 ) next to each other, and NOT releasing an MS demo until it sounds BETTER than the competition?

I don't know about you, but if I were trying to sell something, that might be the first thing I did...

In all honesty, how many arrangers would Yamaha sell, if this is what their demo page sounded like, and this is how they sounded OOTB? Roland and Korg would be rubbing their hands in glee, that's for sure!

With all the money Yamaha, Roland and Korg have to spend on R & D I should hope they get it right, however small companies like Lionstracs do not have that luxury, and so have to move in smaller steps.
Compare the latest demos to those of 12 months ago, and they have come on in leaps and bounds, and it can only get better.

Bill

Sorry, Bill, but let's face it. If the guys at MS can't put together a style demo that even halfway approaches the standards of their much less expensive competition, what on earth should persuade an arranger user that magically, HE is going to be able to do much better?

There certainly is a complete lack of user demos to show that fact. The sad fact is, the factory demos ARE the best that is out there for this arranger, and they fail to equal, yet alone surpass the competition.

Now, I don't consider myself a virtuoso in any way, but put a T2 in my hands, or a PA2X Pro, or my G70 , and I am SURE I can play something as good as any of the factory style demos from those companies. As I think many of us here could...

So why is Dom finding it so hard to find someone that doesn't bollix up playing the MS..? The obvious inference is that his demonstrator is NOT a bad player (it doesn't take a great player to make a great arranger sound great). Just that the MS really DOES sound that bad. And NO player can make it sound better...

I really believe that the hardware and OS of an arranger is maybe 10% of it's value. The sound-set and the styles are 90% of what makes one successful, and another not. It seems Dom has been putting 90% into the hardware and OS. Sadly (for him), the vast majority of arranger players do not care one jot about Linux wrappers, elastic audio, VSTi capabilities and 24 bit converters. Not until they can turn it on, select ANY style and any sound, start playing, and hear something that blows all the (far less expensive) competition away.

THEN they might get worked up about all the other stuff it can do...

In a small way, Dom is starting to see the light. He has worked long and hard to provide sounds and styles that work for the Serbian music market. This attention to the CONTENT, rather than the OS, has payed dividends in increased sales, from what he says.... Now if only he would continue this, give the OS a rest for a while, and prioritize the CONTENT for the rest of the world, this thing has a fighting chance.

But if he continues to post demos that would embarrass any of the major arranger manufacturers (or their customers), while continually touting new OS features that don't translate into immediately better styles (and demos), it's going to be a continuation of this long, uphill battle.

How hard can it be to grasp? FIRST, we want kick ass, TOTL styles and sounds. THEN we want cutting edge features. Not the other way around...

All the styles I tried on this page are G70 styles, so I tried the real thing side by side and my G70 blows away this MS thing. Styles on that page sounds really awful, with parts completely unbalanced and pretty standard GM sounds, so the first thing MS developers have to do is to create ORIGINAL content for it, not just put other brands' styles and sounds into it.

Just for your know...
We already made a lot of live keyboards comparation in some concert and at the Musikmesse exibition. ( just look some video on youtube if you don't believe me)
For respect, I don't make brands names BUT you can see on the youtube video how many important brand people come visit us.
2 of these are also asking me for one company agreement, that I can license my hardware/software for his new products...

About he keyboard comparation, NO ONE till now can be compete with the MS Audio quality and with the 126dB dynamic range. Any stupid sounds/Mp3 on MS is played with full dynamic at 24bit system and not at 16bit/80db like te all others.

in some exibition I have invited the others brand to come in our stand, BUT all have refused the offer, this just because after listen one GIGA Bosendorfer 290, B4 VST, MS Synth...all process at 24bit resolution,they was totally scared!
Anyway, i'm always ready to make a real comparation where they want and then we can see who will laugh.

do NOT compare the Mp3 in my webpage, because the Mp3 can NEVER compete with the MS audio outputs! Mp3 is only a portable internet format.

Com on Diki, do NOT compare your G-70 or the others keyboards that have 32/64/200Mb of ROM soundbank...all limited and cutted for fitting inside 200/300 sounds...OR waiting like the tyros 50 minute for loading the sampler...

Read again in the other topics, how the Tyros drumset sounds...why then they try to find a VST solution? Forget the 20-30 superarticulation sounds ( that under GIG we can have too) all the other sounds are recycled from PSR models...

About your last message, I don'tt start to see ANY light, we have only try to develope from nothing a new Arranger engine based on Audio-Midi SEQ, where the all composer in this world use for work and make styles too( cubase, Logic...)
Complex and nice styles you can create ONLY if you have a good SEQ tools and NOT from the keyboard editor, thats all.
We give the arranger tools and the composer now can create all what he like, under OPEN system and NOT limited like the embedded keyboards.

We are a small company and we DO NOT need BIG orders like MUST have the yamaha, Roland, Korg for survive.
Arranger field is really so small, I think ONLY the 1% of the all keyboards are arranger.( this also because they can NOT play on one arranger.. )

Most musician ask us the Sounds quality, VST support and one nice SEQ integrated on the keyb, Qranger now is the right one.
You can criticize how much you want of this oriental people, BUT only this people are full of money, all the others can only talk and talk..and at the end don't have the money for buy one professional keyboards.
Let the bigger sell the toys under 500 dollars, we really are NOT interesting at all.
All my clients ( from 5 years) had buy the mediastation just one time, you there had buy a new keyboard every 6 months..at the end who had spend less?

5 years ago, was not available Windows Vista, Kontact 4, Logic audio Pro, AMD quad core and so on..it mean that they before had stolen our money? Every years come out new technology and software, BUT this don't mean that you have to change the mediastation, Just upgrade the CPU/Mainboard and install the new software.

Anyway..be patience Diki...now I have a nice arranger tool and every days will be continue better and better,for new audio styles too.
Now I'm on this point, it mean that we don't return back in technology but always in better.
Look the all others..what they continue offer you for new? Always the same warmed soup...

enjoy what you play...

Don't worry, the new MS styles developer will make new native MS Audio-Midi styles too.
The qranger tool offer the possibility to import the al others brands styles, why we have to remove this feature it IF the all others still make the same??
Or you mean that Roland have factory developed 16.000 styles??

Remember also one stuff:
Mediastation is a PC based system, with GIGA sampler, VST and other sounds PC engines and NOT a ROM+DSP based systen like the all embedded keyboard.
With the ROM+DSP engine, you can control and levelling perfect the all sounds/styles, under a PC open system, this is like impossible.
Each GIGA, VST...have a different sounds and volumes engine, depend how many oscillators, voice... you open and every time the global volumes will change and not levelled.

So..with the MS you have to choose one compromise system, IF you like to open so many VST, GIGA, Synth's, you must also accept this all compromise..
in my MS Pro I just have installed one AMD Athlon XP dulacore 5200+, 8Gb RAM system and I have open and played about 1300 Voices.
This was just for testing the Linux OS, but of course the globally volumes OUT had changed totally! Was not a stereo HiFi CD player...
It is a compromise... you have to choose what is better for your gig's.
For play some Bossa Nova with a nice guitar and sax...I'm the first to tell you to buy one Tyros 3.
the problem is that my clients do NOT want this...this is my problem.
cheers

Simple question, Dom... Why can't you put up a demo that sounds as good as a T2? (Or a G70, or a PA2X, etc.)

16,00 BAD styles doesn't impress anyone. 300 KILLER ones will...

It's as easy as that...

while i can understand the explanation, that thas not really help. the object of an arranger are mainly the styles and sounds. if these are weak, or unbalanced, or unedited, or whatever, nothing else really mathers.

The problem Dom is that every answer you give is about a future developement of the instrument that will make it sound better..... How many times have i heard this line in the 3-4 years i have been on the synthzone and yet still with all the sales talk my ears tell me the MS is not an arranger that i could use.

I dont want to discourage you. I have never tried to do that. All i will say is that you need to try hard at keeping your focus on what arranger players want. The 'openess' of the instrument means nothing to us. Ask the guys who are lining up to sell their Pa1X's to get the latest greatest Pa2X or the T2 owners chomping at the bit to get the T3. You are selling a musical instrument Dom. That means it has to sound like a great musical instrument. Not a mixer, sampler, DVD player , Midi file player . If you get the bread and butter stuff right then the rest is just gravy. Best of luck

Dom i have the answer to your problems !!

Click on this link . and then play the last style ' me and Mrs Jones'. it was created by a guy on the Korg site. I am listening to it now and it is simply amazing. Ask the guy who programmed it to write styles for you. Pay him whatever he asks. You would be very foolish to miss this genuine opportunity.

Best of luck
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=239592#239592

/AGREE

Thats possibly the best of the best styles we ever heard.... Just sweet and awesome...

If you can talk that guy intoo programming MS styles, you'll have a winner for sure.

Wonder how long it took him to create it, as it sounds like a hell of a lot of work has gone into it.

Bill

There's so much work put into that style that it probably took forever to get it to that point. I've never heard any style that was so detailed and song specific. Any manufacturer would do well to have this guy make custom styles for them but it would take months if not years to do hundreds of styles that are as complex as this one is. The cost alone would be astronomical and it would increase the price of the arranger significantly.

As many people as I've seen complain here about the cost of a $1500-$2500 arranger I doubt they'd pony up to pay hundreds if not thousands more just because the arranger came loaded with great styles.

I agree with Ensnareyou. Who wants to pay for perfect style?
musician only. Or Musicians without knowledge of making and tweaking styles.

Styles are only one part of keyboard. If you are good musician than you need to tweak in any kind of keyboard also styles even they are as you guys says so perfect.

I’m really disappointed with some members here because they are still on point of view from 10 years ago. If the keyboard is not well known name, than you need to say many things against it and try to convince other members that this is bad product.

How many of you test MS and see advantages of it?

If somebody of you will play on MS like me on live performance for longer time and see all advantages of this keyboard, than will not complain about how BAD are styles or sounds. I’m really happy with it because I’m having perfect tool and I can use it as I want. I know that is sound much, much better than other brands and ONCE MORE I’m happy.

Enjoy in triad and in your fight against good things.

Yes, really GOOD composed! seem alyways that we Italian we have a good felling and taste for compose music..
the styles are good composed BUT sounds always with poor dymanic pressure, typical Korg.

Ensnareyou, I agree with you.
Why I have to offer this complex and expensive style IF then the big brands with a lot of money will not offer?
The Yamaha Tyros 3 will the best arranger, then ask they to include this professional amazing styles too, OR they are not able to compose styles like this??

Under mediastation I can have another possibility, BUT is not the best way...
We can also clone ( record) in one wav file for each Chords,the all patterns and then under qranger set only the marker points like we make with the EMC styles.

Pro:
Cloned at 1/1 the same sounds and quality style in about 20/30 minute of work.
Minus:
No possibility to manage the midi tracks volumes and sounds..
Need multiple Note root key for reduce the Elastique pitch shift range.

Is NOT the best way..but under MS is all possible.
Enjoy what you play...

so let me get this straight. You spend 4 years producing an arranger that has styles that no one can use or wants to buy (in the western world) but you wont invest in a style maker that could take 6-12 months to produce great styles that people will buy ???? (Ps if he can make song specific styles to this detail he can make less song specific styles) Opportunity knocks and you are too deaf and tunnelled visioned to see it. I can see you are a man of great vision.....

good point...
First let me see what the yahama, after many years of development from Psr 9000, Tyros, Tyros 2 and now tyros 3... then I wait what ketron after 3 years development what offer with Audya..or the Korg, with the PAX2/PA800 will offer for amazing styles.

When I really can HEAR some totally new and amazing styles like made this Italian guy, we will also ( we are a small company..) start to offer some of this styles too.
Let me see if they that have milions of dollars can offer for you ONE of this styles for FREE!!
You have there to pay ANY stupid Update, sounds and styles...30-40 euro for one 2Mb sounds...this is a shame and then you will from my mediastation all this styles for nothing??
Let me soo who wil make thi first step and then we proceed too....

[This message has been edited by LIONSTRACS (edited 06-23-2008).]

I read again the topic on korgforums: http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=239592#239592

Worth wrote:
just heard me and Mrs Jones !!! Are you kidding me ????????? That fabulous. My brother and i are really into music production. He uses the the Korg Triton Extreme and he is a really good producer even if i say so myself and he said that the brass and strings in your production are nothing short of incredible . Your drum programming skills are amazing . I cannot say enough about what i am hearing. I am going to post a link to this on another site. You are officially ' The Man' For styles !

Incredible...one normally italian arranger player now officially is: ' The Man For the styles!

What it mean??
The all best official composer and top engineers of the big brands company ( than have a lot of money ) are NOT able to compose one style like this one?
For a 3000-4000 euro of this arranger keyboard this is a MUST to include..
Well..if this is true...is really a shame...

Again we have the probe that one simple guy in this world can teach to the big company HOW to make good styles....incredibe....

[This message has been edited by LIONSTRACS (edited 06-23-2008).]

You have misqouted me. This is incredible for a NON PRO NON FACTORY STANDARD STYLE.

Korg has lots of great styles. MS has .....well.....none!

Soon you will hear also native audio-midi styles too, don't worry.
Korg has recycled from 20 years the styles ( i30) and added some new great..all the others styles are just standard and flat..sounds quality don't impress me at all, always the same warmed soup...

Qranger was released 10 days ago ( June 2008 and NOT 20 years ago), 200 standard midi styles are ready to play and we contine ( from NOW ) to make new styles and native styles too.
Korg and the others what they offer more and fresh?...well...none!
( opss..sorry..they offer you to change and buy every 6 months a new keyboard for some added new sounds...)

End this week we wil release also the new COMBI 3.0, we have added more 10 ASIO midi ports, GIGA Instruments loader and Synth.
this for each of the 8 Layers available.
Look here if you don't believe me: http://www.lionstracs.com/store/images/2008/massive.jpg

Just install some of this: http://www.lionstracs.com/store/information_pages.php?info_id=24
and then prees one Patch COMBI that recall up to 8 of this different ASIO is realtime, without preload ANY VST.
We will see and hear then wich keyboard can sounds better and EASY to recall sounds.

untill the others can arrival at my software level and audio streaming styles will pass another 5/10 years..
NASA arrival to planet mars this year..
Apple launced the first worldide amazing Iphone 3G..
In the music industries Melodyne open a new generation of audio editing...
so what this all big keyboards company offer new on year 2008?...well...none!
I know that you will ignore topics like this, when we have to talk about the MS..: http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/017699.html
Are not my words there...

So...we continue more?

[This message has been edited by LIONSTRACS (edited 06-23-2008).]

your a lost cause Dom . I just handed you a solution to your problems on a plate and you couldnt see it because you have your own agenda no matter what the market actual wants from you. i heard the same rhetoric 4 years ago. You really cant teach an old dog new tricks.... Best of luck mate. I will let you get on with it.

Spalding..
is true, we spend 4 years for develope more than 560.000 lines of code, Just for try to add a mix of features from keyboard to keyboard.
Now we are at the end, just for add the last ASIO features ( that 4 years ago was not available..is not my fault if the bigger software developers are SO SLOW..same for windows...Vista was not available)
After the combi is complete, the software features will be stopped for some weeks.

You can not help to resolve my problems because you are one of may that will not buy one MS, but just blame or maybe no money there too.

I have first to listed WHO placed me the new big orders and make they first happy, because there ( that you dont like the area) have a LOT of money and they will buy new products like mine too.
They help me with true money and not only words...
They prefer to invest in my software based keyboards than the dated embedded keyboards that cost MUCH more than the MS.
the MS OS now is really stable and amzing and now the Qranger gave us the jump to restart again.

of course I like someday to try to sell my product there too and when finally we can be ready with this Western styles, then for sure we sell the MS really easy there too.
we wil see....

As you said 10 ASIO inputs in COMBI are really great future. You can not imagine how many things can be done with that. Only in one you can have NI KONTAKT with all best sounds in other EZ DRUMER etc. That is totally wild.
That can not offer other STANDARD keyboard in this moment. I thing you done really much and you are still full of new ideas.

'You can not help to resolve my problems because you are one of may that will not buy one MS, but just blame or maybe no money there too.'

I guess i must just really like to waste my time Dom but heres what i am prepared to do just to see if i can turn things around for the mediastation. I am not looking for any finacial reward for myself.Its simply to prove a point. How about i broker a deal between yourself and the style maker at the Korg forum ? Lets say you pay him for 20-30 Jazz/ballad/latin styles specific for the mediastation and then you sell them on your website for a trial period. You pay the style Maker a percentage of the sales only with a small up front cash fee to the style maker to show good will ? If you dont sell any of the styles what have you lost ? But if you sell the styles then you will know if there is really a customer base that you have missed. The balls in your court now. I am too good to you mate.I really am :-)

Hi Spalding ,
how does one create a style without the keyboard??
Wouldn't they need to suit the mediastation sounds?

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by spalding:
[B]

Same tired old lame non-answers, Dom.

Ye Gods! If you haven't 'got it' by now, you'll probably never will. And the MS will probably ALWAYS remain a technological toy, while the rest of the market catches up and surpasses you, because none of them will ever forget that an arranger, whether open or not, is ALL about the styles and sounds. Not one, not the other... BOTH.

Rikki, how can ANYONE develop styles for the MS, because, according to Dom, the whole point is that everyone will have different sounds in it..? This is basically a 'roll your own' piece of gear. From listening to all the factory demo's, you can basically scratch all the supplied sounds and styles (unless you WANT to sound bad ). It's painfully obvious that Dom has never done any serious market research, and asked the question 'How many players make ALL their own styles?', because if he had, he would realize what a pitifully tiny number that is, and how important it would be for HIM to make great styles the #1 priority of his company...

Sorry, Dom, but sh*t at 24 bit doesn't sound any better than sh*t at mp3 rates... And reheated soup tastes better than hot air, which is all we are getting, here.

Hi Diki,
sorry , I must have missed something.

Possibly one reason why software like One Man Band or Livestyler isn't far more popular. $50 piece of software & you can play psr styles in realtime. Only problem is the styles need tweaking to suit the soundsource one's using.
After a couple of years decided it was easier to just buy an arranger again. At least I had a core set of factory styles, whatever else I need, I just put together myself. Unfortunately in my Stylemaking group, I discovered that only about 1% of members were actually inclined to tweak , convert or create their own. I think there were 3 of us out of roughly 300.


best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Diki:
[B]
It's painfully obvious that Dom has never done any serious market research, and asked the question 'How many players make ALL their own styles?', because if he had, he would realize what a pitifully tiny number that is, and how important it would be for HIM to make great styles the #1 priority of his company...

somehow connected to what you're saying guys... i wonder how come there was no "full-package" coming from OMB or LiveStyler so far? i mean software with a dedicated hardware, made into an arranger form, or as a module.
all they need is a plastic box, a 12" touch screen, and some parts inside! and they would be far ahead (or at least there are serious chances) of traditional arranger makers.

Hi Dom
The Wersi is an open system, and although initially a high price, (The longer you keep it the cheaper it becomes as you don’t need to change the board every 2 or 3 years) they still sell with no problems whatsoever in the West.(Very few people who try them live are disappointed, and most are amazed at their capabilities)
However they do not market it at computer geeks, (ASIO, Linux, jacks etc) but to ordinary uses that wouldn’t have a clue what you were talking about anyway. (Considerable amounts of money have been spent on R & D to make sure that all the technology onboard, becomes invisible, allowing you to jump on and play as if it was a hardware board)
So come on Dom, forget going on about ASIO, 24bit etc and just make it as easy to operate as a Tyros 2, Korg PA etc, you will then be able to encourage style makers to produce the styles required, and the uses to really see the potential. (Wersi works with a top German style company (Who also make styles for Roland, Yamaha and Korg) for the OAA styles, as while the OAS styles are good, uses these days want even more)
Wersi instruments are also used in concert halls, stadiums, and clubs and believe it or not even in the home, so the market for an easy to use open board is there. (In spite of what others try to make you believe)
I hope the above helps you to understand the current market, and how to proceed for the future.

Hi Adimatis
TMS Banda (Tornado Music Systems) in Germany produced what you have suggested for many years, using the LiveStyler software.
Regards

Bill

Hi Rikkisbears. All he would have to do is ship a MS to the style maker and let him accustom himself to the instrument and get to work. If Dom likes what he hears, he leaves the instrument with the style maker and he continues to make styles. But i am now having second thoughts.

If a guy is so blind that he cant see a great commercial opportunity then who am i to tell him different ? I must stop trying to convince people i am right. They wil work that out all by themselves some day :-)There are other opportunities for this style maker anyway right where he started on the Korg Forum.

Let us just say that the Korg guy started out with the benefit of a well developed and balanced sound-set to make the Korg style. He may not have that luxury on the MS...

You know that i'm not a styles makers..no time here for compose styles..

Anyway, for test development I have edited one simple roland style, deleted the midi drums tracks and drag in qranger some audio loops from Loopsmaster UK.
just made in 20 minute..need a lot of time to choose what audio file to drag...no more editing: http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/qranger/styles/clubbossaloops.mp3

is just one example, but will shown that the audio parts are working too.
here the shoot of Qranger for this style: http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/qranger/styles/clubbossaloop.jpg

The audio library is this one: http://www.loopmasters.com/sampleshop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=LMOS_11
so Diki please..do not start to blame again that the audio loops are poor...because is not my fault..
if you have to criticize the audio quality, just contact loopmaster and tell they how to record the audio file..
IF the midi tracks are poor, is not my fault too...Roland composer...

enjoy what you play...

[This message has been edited by LIONSTRACS (edited 06-24-2008).]

If you not open your mind until now, than is something wrong with you.

Is it not great opportunity to copy all good applicable styles and sounds from your old keyboard on one new machine and change all bad points with new better in only some minutes?

Dom says only 20 minutes for one style. If you are having 20 different for hole gig than is something wrong with you. (Yes you are using different variations and sounds only that and I thing most of you guys are playing only on 10 styles)

How many of you are want to use new styles. It
is only traditional styles that are using all people over the world. You need to find your personalization in MS. That is point and if you are still poor in knowledge than are here friend on net that can help you. You can really believe me.

I’m really happy that I’m user of MS. All guys who test my MS are really says that is incredible good and full of new advantages that can no other keyboard can offer for this money.


Best regards.

Magica ALFA


[This message has been edited by Magica Alfa (edited 06-25-2008).]

Hi Adimatis,
I think Jos has just left OMB open so that it can be used with any soundsource.
Great if you're happy creating or editing styles, not so good if you want to load psr styles and use them as is.
There isn't ( as far as I'm aware)a soundmodule or softsynth that is 100% compatible with psr styles.
I used mine with soundfonts ( editing required) &/or my Clavinova's xg soundset. Even then a certain amount of tweaking was required & my Clav doesn't have megavoices.

I all but gave up when my laptop died, & my replacement early dual core didn't do as well with the sounfonts as my earlier one did.
nteresting experience though, got it on hold for the time being. Might look at it again next time I get a new computer.
I prefer using softsynths with it.
best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by adimatis:
[B]

Hi,
well if you put it that way,
me, it would probably suit perfectly, I luv experimenting & fiddling round with styles etc.

Hopefully there's enough people out there willing to do the same.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Magica Alfa:
[B]If you not open your mind until now, than is something wrong with you.

Rikki
I know that you are one of the best here with PC skill and luv make experiments..

Maybe I can prepare for you ( Free..don't worry..) one special OS 64studio distribution with included the Qranger editor, LS Sampler with the editor and Qsampler ready to load the Mediastation sampler setup.
I can give you my new Giga soundbankGM2 V.4 and then you are ready to make audio-midi styles available also for the Mediastation format.

About the soundfont...forget it because is a totally OLD format and without the all midi CC controllers that we need now for GM/GS or XG format.

Maybe, with my new Giga soundsbank and with your PC skill, you can organize one new XG GIGA soundbank under Qsampler and editing the missing sounds with the Gigaeditor.

Think about..under this way you can make some nice money too..
let me know

Well, I imagine that the guys at Yamaha, Roland and Korg who code the OS doesn't design the styles either. The thing is, they hire a team of VERY talented style makers to do it for them, and the cost of doing this is defrayed by the retail price of the arranger.

If you have no time or inclination to design the styles yourself (and, to be honest, few of the Big 3's styles are done solely by one person, anyway, from what we are told), you need to hire someone to, at the very LEAST, tweak all the Yamaha and Roland styles to be shown to their best, and preferably, hire a style design team (or get MidiSpot or one of the other TOTL style makers to work for you) and design styles expressly for the best included sound set and VSTi's. Then, just like all the other manufacturers, you defray the cost of this into the total cost of the arranger, and finally you have something that the 99% of the arranger market (you know, the ones that DON'T make their own styles, no matter how much you WISH they would ) would be willing to buy.

Of course, this will bring up the price of the unit cost, but at least you wouldn't be missing the mark with the vast majority of arranger users that want to just PLAY, not spend AT LEAST 20 minutes (in real life, more like an hour for the average home user) on each and every style that's in it before it even sounds as good as an S900. 300 hours of style editing before you get something as balanced as a $1600 arranger... 7 1/2 WEEKS of a 40 hour week Two MONTHS of non-stop editing to get a measly 300 styles working!

So now we know why you haven't done this yourself (yet alone actually CREATE a style!)... And, truth is, none of us have a couple of months to devote to style editing before we can even use your arranger, either. If you haven't worked out by yet that the VAST majority of arranger buyers will NEVER spend that kind of time on editing and tweaking, you simply have done NO market research.... Rikki's style-MAKING group turned out that only 1% of THEM (a tiny percentage themselves of the overall arranger users group) actually made styles. How big a clue do you need...?

You are, in effect, trying to sell a computer that uses a non-standard OS, and trying to persuade people to buy it by saying that they will have to write their own programs Now maybe for YOU (as a code geek) this sounds like fun. Try it in the general population...

No, you already know this. We know this. Everybody knows this... How come you don't know what WE know, though? Without a HUGE library of already well-balanced styles and sounds, you are making a niche product for a tiny minority, and the minute the majors release an 'open' arranger (an inevitability, sooner or later) they will NOT ignore the content, and you will be GONE... If you tackle this now, you have a head start. If you don't, the first competitor that does will give you a VERY hard time.

I have said all along that I like the concept of your product. But the execution stinks. If all the cutting edge features were added to an already well-balanced arranger, I would be playing it already (and you would have my money and support, like Roland have now). But cutting edge features on an unusable (without MONTHS of tweaking at best) arranger will never persuade me, and the vast majority of arranger users. I sincerely wish you could see this, rectify the problem, so I could buy one

Hi Dom,
I definately enjoy experimenting, I have lots of spare time, and luv learning .
For 5 years I spent most of my spare time with my head buried in a manual, Roland, Korg, Technics, Yamaha, Ensoniq, Kurzweil.
Spent a week studying the Roland W30 manual just so I could give a 1 hr demo at a school , because the young keyboard salesman at the music store wasn't game to front a class of 40, 17 year olds girls.
Not profitable,but at least I didn't have to buy a W30 to quench my curiosity about it. Same can't be said for the other 30 to 40 synths, workstations, samplers , soundmodules, arrangers I've owned..

The only thing I'm not quite sure of , is if I'd have the technical skills to actually edit ?? the giga samples.
Knowing how to do something, doesn't neccesarily mean you end up with a perfect result.

I've known the technical side of creating styles for all the brands of keyboards I've owned, but knowing how to is not the same as being able to compose& get the balance right etc, all the stuff Diki mentioned.

I put styles together, I give them away, if they can use them great, if not , I'm non the wiser. A lot of the stuff I write about & do is in the hope of getting others involved in trying to create styles for their keyboards.

I may be in the same situation with trying to put the Giga Soundbank together.

Editing the soundfonts was one thing, I just chose individual fonts that were the closest I thought to the psr sounds & organized them into banks. Rearranged some drum sounds to suit the psr's drum mapping etc. I've no experience as far as megavoices go either.
I kept my PSR1500 & SD1, even though my latest toy is the Korg PA800.

Another problem could be, I'm in Australia.
Not sure whether you even distribute here??

I wouldn't want to take something on under false pretenses.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by LIONSTRACS:
[B] Rikki


[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 06-26-2008).]