Ok, I need the Bose users opinions - buy a new L1 or find a used one - All I will do is plug in my PSR3000 and play - no other gear except a mic.

Which version the latest one or the original. I can afford either.

Hammer

Well if money is no real issue, I don't see why you wouldn't get the Model 2.

It's:

1. Smaller and more portable.
2. A greater "spread of sound" due to the angled speaker drivers.
3. Works well with the T1 Tone Engine ** (Mixing desk) in case you need some flexibility in the future - we all need that sooner or later.

**To be fair, the T1 works just as well with the Model 1.


Possibly reason # 1 is the most important overall, I'm not exactly sure of your current gigging situation.

I have to be careful about weight - back problem. Sold my PA1X last week - just to heavy to handle for me. So that is an important consideration for me. All of my gigs are "one night" stands - so setup ease is also important.

Hammer

If you really want & need the Bose get the new one. Otherwise do your homework on your options.

Hi Donny,

I don't need tons of sound - almost all of my venues are small to medium size rooms. I need good quality sound with great sound dispersion. I have heard the Bose system overcomes the "uncomfortably" loud up front and little sound in back issue. If true, that alone is worth the price for me.

Hammer

Hammer as I always say first off dont listen to ANYONE.... take your KB ....go to the store....or if you have too drive a few hours to TRY OUT THE SYSTEM with YOUR KB......PLAY through it & sing at FULL PERFORMANCE VOLUME....Play some SMF songs thru it and go out in front of it......A/B it with some other PA systems & make an educated decision. If your back is a problem consider weight & transporting it also.

have fun



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 06-24-2008).]

Hammer,
You heard the Bose in action at the Bosier City Jam. If you walked the room, you undoubtedly know the dispersion was excellent.

In your situation (back problems) you should know the Bose Model I or II is 4 pieces. The model I power stand (which house 3 amps)is 34 pounds. The Sub is about 28 pounds. The stacks, just 15 pounds each. A snap to set up and tear down. But,...still 4 pieces. No problem on a Rock'n Roller. Without a cart, that 34 pounds can feel like 50. The Model II has a slightly lighter power stand.

Take care of that back of yours.

Eddie

Hi Donny and Eddie,

I think Bose offers a 45 day try out period. Might be worth giving it a try.
Eddie, I heard you have been sick lately. Hope nothing serious. Whatever - I wish you well.

By the way, I do have a rock n roller cart and it has been a life saver. Best money spent in years.

Hammer

Hammer is there a restocking FEE for returns?

Bose has no restocking fee.
Hammer, bring your 3000 when you come to town, and we'll run it through my system if you want.
DonM

I'd say go for the Model II with the T1 module. I received mine today and played a gig with it tonight. Worked like a charm. Still got some tweaking to do.

I say get the new model, but wait on the mixer. Use the Yamaha straight into the 1/4" input, and only spring for the extra money if you need what the mixer offers. I love the Tone match, but I play guitar, laptop and wireless mic thru it as well as my PA800. For me, the new setup is well worth the extra money in portablity. The footprint of the pedestal unit is so much more versitile. The sound is slightly better, but I would not have made the change if the pedestal unit was the same on both. All things considered ... I'm glad I'm in Philadelphia! ( with a BOSE! )

Dave ..don't get carried away..you are glad you live in a Phila. suburb...with a Bose ..

Dave,
What does the tonematch do?
Hammer

The Tonematch is essentially the Mixing desk with separate FX (Compression/Modulation/Reverb/Delays etc etc) for each channel and in addition provides finer EQ control over each channel to the point where you can actually input what particular Mike or Guitar or (to an extent) Keyboard you are using to provide even more control, tonally, over your overall sound.

I just was over at the Bose forums recently, and they casually mentioned that the crossover point between the Subs (B1s) are slightly higher in the Model 2, which I believe might help with the "hole" that can be heard in the lower mids of the old system. Additionally, (regarding that) I have been stacking my B1s vertically as recommended by many on the forum, as it provides a fuller, rounder, and even more punchy(!) Bass sound - placement of the B1s can make a big difference depending on the room.

Hammer, you really should go over to the Bose forums (and the Bose Wiki) and do a search on...well ANYTHING you want to know, as I practically guarantee you - it's been covered.


Love or hate the Bose, there's no denying that the Bose Forums are absolutely INCREDIBLE when it comes to discussions, help, advice, Technical issues - geez just about ALL anyone would want to know about the system.

Go there now if you're still interested in the Bose - really.....right now - you will be amazed.

Hammer,

There isn't a hill of beans difference between the two. I have a bad back, had two back surguries, and 32 pounds isn't enough weight to worry about. Granted, there are days when that 32-pound base unit feels like it doubled in weight, but most of the time it's nothing I can't handle, even at age 68.

Here's the deal. I use the Bose L1 for everything now. The Logitech Z-5500 hasn't been out of the house for nearly six months, and the way things are going it will likely stay in the house until I have problems with the Bose L1, which isn't likely. In the time I've owned the L1 it has been on more than 1,000 jobs, the base unit's case is a bit worn from sliding it out of the van and loading it on the Rock "N" Roller cart, but the sound is superior to every sound system I've used in nearly 50 years.

Go for the 45-day trial period and if you don't like what you hear, send it back. It's the best deal on the market that I know of.

Good Luck,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Multiple B1's. Hmmmm....

So you are implying that the basic '1 stick, 1 sub' at $2500 is not enough for the gig. How much extra is each sub? Not to mention an actual USER admitting the 'hole in the low-mids' thingy that all the rest of us have been saying for a while...

Don't get me wrong, I STILL believe the Bose's, at the right task and in the right room, is a very good system. But it's nice to see a user finally even 'fess up to a couple of the things we've been talking about in the past. A lack of strong bass (I didn't want to say 'weak' 'cause that would get a knee-jerk reaction ) and a presence hole in the mid low-end is pretty much how I heard the basic system (haven't heard L2, but I AM familiar with L1) in action. Great coverage, but hyped, rather than 'flat' was my impression. YMMV

If money is no object, I guess go for the works, although needing inputs for just a kb and mic is an overkill. I have used my model 1 for several years. My Z5500 also stays home. I added the Tonematch because I sometimes need 6 inputs. It adds effects like compression and reverb, but a model 1 and a single B1 alone,is all you really need for a great sound experience.

Gary I know better and I know you are not on the payroll at Bose. You are very convincing.....been toying with the idea of a Bose for quite some time and with a 45 day trial what's not to like!!

Steve let us know how you like it.....
I tried it & sold it just wasn't the sound I was looking for....but many enjoy it.
The sound is very subjective. I have also seen DJ's using Two poles and 4 bass modules stacked.



http://www.soundwavesmm.com/eventpics.htm



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 06-26-2008).]

Hammer, below is a link to the Bose Forum (topic being a "Model 1 / Model 2 differences?" kind of discussion.
http://bose.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/867107664/m/8041000005

(Hope the cut n paste link works).

Specs wise...

Model 1:

Weight

* L1™ Model I power stand: 35 lb (16 kg)
* L1™ Model I Cylindrical Radiator® loudspeaker
o Top Section: 14.5 lb (6 kg)
o Bottom Section: 16.0 lb (7 kg)
* R1 remote control: 0.6 lb (0.27 kg)
* B1 bass module (optional): 28 lb (13 kg)

Dimensions

* L1 Model I power stand: 26.0’’W x 26.0’’D x 5.0’’H (66 cm x 66 cm x 12.7 cm)
* L1™ Model I Cylindrical Radiator® loudspeaker (each section):
o Top Section: 43 1/8’’H x 3.5’’W x 4.0’’D (109.54 cm x 8.89 cm x 10.1 cm)
o Bottom Section: 43 1/2’’H x 3.5’’W x 4.0’’D (110.49 cm x 8.89 cm x 10.1 cm x )
* R1 remote control: 2.8’’W x 5.6’’D x 1.6’’H (4.0 cm x 7.1 cm x 14.1 cm)
* B1 bass module: 15.3’’H x 10.3’’W x 18.0’’D (38.0 cm x 25.0 cm x 45.7 cm)


Model 2:

Weight

* L1™ Model II power stand: 23.7 lb (10.7 kg)
* L1™ Model II Cylindrical Radiator® loudspeaker
o Top Section: 16.3 lb (7.4 kg)
o Bottom Section: 17.4 lb (7.9 kg)
* B1 bass module: 25.1 lb (11.4 kg)

Dimensions

* L1™ Model II power stand: 5’’H x 10’’W x 27’’D (12.8 cm x 26.2 cm x 69.2 cm)
* L1™ Model II Cylindrical Radiator® loudspeaker
o Top Section: 43 ¼ ’’H x 3½’’W x 4’’D (109.86 cm x 8.89 cm x 10.16 cm)
o Bottom Section: 43 3/4’’H x 3½’’W x 4’’D (111.13 cm x 8.89 cm x 10.16 cm)
* B1 bass module: 15’’H x 10¼’’W x 17¾’’D (38.0 cm x 26.0 cm x 45.0 cm)

(A bit of "specs overkill" regarding Weight/Height...... sorry, but you get the idea)

Hope that helps you in some way.

A half-dozen KJs and at least one DJ in my part of the world switched to the L1 during the past two years and every one of them said they would never go back to a conventional sound system. And, they're all using a single L1 with a single sub cabinet.

One of the KJs came to a place where I was playig a happy hour last week just to hear the system. When I finished playing he quizzed me about settng up the volumes, which must be done exactly as the manual states or you will not be happy with the sound. After showing him how this was done he admitted that he didn't read the manual--just plugged everything in and turned up the volumes. He said he was happy with the sound, but had some distortion at higher levels. He called a few days later to thank me for showing him how to set the system up and that everything sounds fantastic now.

Diki, I don't hear a hole and lower mid-range sounds, but I'm old and my hearing is shot to hell. And, when playing and singing I would think it would be nearly impossible for the performer to hear any deficit in sound if it did exist. As it has been stated many times, there is no "One Size Fits All" sound system--it does not exist. However, for me, the L1 is about as close as it gets.

Good luck,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Donny, I'm very tempted but I'm also waiting to hear some feedback on the new Coda R. Hopefully you and Fran will demo it soon
http://www.acousticimg.com/products/prod_coda.html

Steve,

mon/tues or wed we will be testing one out here in Philly! We'll let you know pro/con

Re: the photo with the two L1's and 4 B1's: I can't imagine using that kind of arrangement in an enclosed area. I'm surprised that there is glass in those widows. I regularly use the L1 and one B1 for most indoor venues and find the arrangement suitable for even larger indoor venues. Two B1's for Large outdoor venues -for some of the Italian festivals I do, the areas are about football field size and two B1's very adequatly fill the space.
As well, 'all things considered, I'd rather be in Philadelphia' 'er I mean the Phildelphia 'burbs ... (with a Bose... a PA800 ... and a Giulietti midi and a ....
Ciao,
Jerry

Gary, I'm sure it works for you and all those others very well. It's just curious, if as you say, the L1 is so perfect OOTB, why people DO add in multiple (and VERY expensive) B1 subs. Are they ALL idiots, or could there possible be a reason for it?

Thing is, for me, as a fifty-something, there are many places I won't listen to music because it is too loud FOR ME, but apparently not too loud for the customers and the management . And I often play these joints, at volume levels that I wouldn't go to myself out of choice, But they are PACKED, and really DO want the volume levels where they are. We often get told to turn up from where I think is a comfortable level, so having a PA that stays full, round and punchy at these high levels is a must.

So I have to have a PA that kicks major booty when needed. If I were in mid-level or lower joints all the time, maybe it could work for me (but I still have issues with the stereo), but if you've got a roomful of screaming kids, and they want close to concert levels, well, just from seeing others' L1 rigs, and all the subs they get, it strikes me that this is what you REALLY need to get up to that level. And it ain't cheap....

Just remember... it ain't ME buying those extra subs, and multiple sticks! These are actual L1 owners, at least tacitly acknowledging what it takes to get a good sound from the Bose systems (if by good you mean LOUD, full, and punchy!)

What do they know, that we don't?

http://www.djsite.info/idx/6/042/article/BOSE-L1-System-Review.html

http://bose.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/867107664/m/226108866


[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 06-26-2008).]

"What do they know, that we don't?"

The flip side of the coin is what to we know that they don't? If I crank the L1 with a single sub gain past 25 percent it's almost enough to blow your eardrums out. As posted above, two L1s and four subs--there shouldn't be any glass in those windows!

------------------
Travlin' Easy

I believe that One stick and one sub produce a perfectly balanced sound for most applications. In some music ( mostly more modern stuff ) the beass requirements are heavier. I've had 2 subs in the past and found the second one to be of little use for 90% of my work. If you do a lot of Hip Hop or otherwise bass-intense songs, you may want the extra ooomph.

The biggest problem in making the switch to a Bose system is adjusting your thinking. We've been programmed to beieve that a boomy, overdone bass with peircing, brittle highs are the norm. That's what many conventional systems have given us over the years. I, for one, am grateful that there is now a better option for acurate sound reproduction that fills a room, and breaks down to a very portable, manageable unit.

It's not for everyone, but most of the musicians I know have some serious hearing losses. I don't.....nor will I have! I have always protected my hearing above all other things, and I intend to do so forever. The Bose system covers any room, (inside or out) that I have ever done, and it does it with a smooth, acurate sound that travels to the back tables without hurting the ears of the front tables !



I'm Sooooooo spoiled.

Remember you'll have to make a choice also between STEREO or MONO One bose or two

Show business sometimes two looks better and creates a more impressive image than one.

There will be people who are made very happy by the Bose PA, and I wouldn't laugh at them even though it is resoundingly not my sort of sound system.

In my type of work, which is restaurant music, I don't want my system to fill the room...only a portion...people who want to listen will sit closer, those who prefer more quiet and less music for their dining experience will sit further away.

Also it is not stereo...and I want stereo.

Unless I change the type of venue I work in, and unless they make a stereo system, the Bose will never be a consideration for me.

Ian

I checked at the local GC today and they will match the Bose 45 day trial period. They want $2400.00 for the L1 Mod2 with one amp. Does that sound about right to everyone?

Hammer

Hammer,
I presume you meant 1 sub, not amp. The Power Stand (PS1) actually has three amps in it, one for each of the L1s and a third for the sub.

$2400 sounds about right for new, in the box. I haven't seen new ones discounted anywhere.

I have the Model I and used it on a job tonight at a fancy country club. It was a very odd shaped room..almost too hard to describe. The Bose covered it like a glove. I don't know how a conventional system could even come close in this situation.

Eddie

Eddie

[This message has been edited by btweengigs (edited 06-27-2008).]

There seem to be two distinct types of rooms, one of which the Bose is excellent for, one of which isn't.

As Ian pointed out (and I have mentioned in the past), there are many rooms where they WANT you at dance levels close to the band, and they want as quick a drop-off in volume past that point as is possible. The Bose would work against you under those circumstances.

Then there are rooms where they want an even volume (usually fairly low in comparison!) all over the room. Bose is excellent under those circumstances.

The sound balance of those types of rooms is normally exactly what the Bose delivers... Not a LOT of bass and punch, crisp, clear, sort of a home stereo on steroids. Not what you would call a club level.

So, depending on the room, the Bose works for you, or against you. I would imagine that those who are the most fervent admirers of the Bose work the latter, and those dissatisfied work the former. I'd also bet that the majority of L1 users that are happy with the system play to primarily over 30 (or 40 or 50!) year old crowds, and those that either need multiple B1's or another system altogether are playing to younger crowds.

Take a meter into any club where the 20-somethings hang out... Pretty scary! It costs a fortune to sub out a Bose system to be able to handle that SPL and low end impact!

Strokes for folks... Sorry, but the L1 system works best for those that have venues that play to it's strengths.

Hammer let us all know how you get on with your Trial.
You're lucky in the fact that you get 45 days (in the U.S.) as elsewhere (AFAIK) there is nowhere near such a Trial period.

We had the system for barely a week - basically Wed to the next Monday.

The first few days were spent getting familiar with the system and setting it up - AND reading the Manual (I do recommend this) and then the gigs themselves at a variety of venues and audiences.

Arrive early and give yourself enough time to sound check - as you should on most gigs of course - and I would recommend walking round the back of the room/venue to hear how the sound "spreads" and see if you like what you hear.

Those first few days of getting to grips with the system are very important. You'll find yourself asking audiences about the sound (like we did) at different venues - it'll happen, trust me. Don't be afraid to put the Bose anywhere you like - optimal is as stated, behind you at least 7-8 feet, but many of the venues we play simply don't allow for this - it hasn't been an issue though, as for some reason you can hear everything clearly, even vocals (especially vocals) when your behind the system itself.

Good luck.

Hammer,

List price was $1.995 plus sales tax the last time I checked. With tax my cost directly from Bose was $2,250. $2,400 is a bit on the high side unless that includes sales tax in your area. Most GCs will match any advertised price, so you may want to check this out.

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy