Excited to see what improvements they make

and the hype continues..

Marketing, Marketing and more marketing!! They are masters at it!!!

Hehe, this website remind me about when Technics KN7000 was on the way....
little by little and then all that sudden:
NO MORE TECHNICS KEYBOARDS !!!

Guess that won't happen to Yamaha ?

Happy Playing whatever kb we play
GJ

Does anyone know for certain if the styles are for the most part going to be based on 4 bar loops?
Thanks

If your looking for a good price on a Tyros 2 get ready people will be dumping them very soon, now that they know T3 is on the way .......

If you have a T2 get ready to dump it before the price wars plummet downhill

too late, the price dropped at least 6 months ago.

I'll be taking orders soon for the T3

Boo I would assume so....stick with KORG for what you need regarding 16 bar styles.

Or just append a style division to itself, and edit the last bar or so to be a little different.

It's not that hard, try it... All you often need to do is edit the drum part and maybe the bass a little, and all your four bar styles suddenly become eight bar ones.

Rinse and repeat for sixteen...

I will never buy a 61 keys keyboard once more. I have a PA2X Pro, and I will
buy a Motif XS rack when it will come out.
I think that will be a purfect
comination. Motif, sounds, PA2X Pro arranger
sounds, connected together....purfect.

Tryggve Sweden

Motif XS rack is now available in US.
I was interested, but I auditioned a Motif XS 8....sounds are OK, but extended articulation I was not impressed with. XS rack is same sounds.
T2 has better SA.

Lee

Sadly, the one thing I REALLY like in the MotifXS keyboards is dropped in the XS Rack (and has been for all the Motif Racks)...

The sampler...

Somehow, Roland can include it in their Fantom Racks, but Yamaha drop it for the Motif series. Shame, really, as it isn't worth it for me to get a Fantom rack, as many of those sounds, and the 'flava' is already in my G70, and I really wanted to add Mega voices to my rig, but the incompatibility between MotifXS Mega voices and T2 and S900 ones makes using the XS Rack as a replacement for those products very difficult, and with no sampler, it starts to be a far less attractive purchase.

Shame...

Hey, Jørgen - if you are reading this, how about a program that converts from T2/S900 Mega information into XS Mega info...? That would be REAL handy

Shame...

You never know though. Maybe Yamaha "fixed" the SAV implementation with the Rack XS compared to the Motif XS. I believe though that the Mega Voices are all the same in the Rack XS, T2, and S900. At least as far as the technology behind them goes that is.
The S900 has less in quantity of the mega voices than the T2 or Rack XS does though. But there should be no incompatibility as far as using the Rack XS with the S900 or T2 in my opinion.

What you need to be aware of is if you have another brand of keyboard product other than the Yamaha brand and you try to MIDI up to the Rack XS you will most likely face incompatibility issues with not only the Mega Voices on the Rack XS, but also the SA voices on the Rack XS as well. I know I had problems when I midi'd up my Roland Sonic Cell with my Tyros. Since I bought the Roland Fantom G I am now using my Sonic Cell with that instead of my Tyros. Of course with that combo there is complete integration and compatibility. But the Motif Rack-XS used with a non-Yamaha i.e. (minus Mega voice and SAV inside) product?? There's bound to be some compatibility issues in my opinion. >> Your mileage may vary.. And all I can say is buyer beware!!

PS: I'm talking about when you play SMF on your keyboard through the Rack-XS. If you play the keys while playing the patches i.e. "voices" in the Rack XS you should be fine. Except that you can't play the Mega Voices in a live venue type situation as we all know. At least not effectively anyway. Again, your mileage may vary, depending on how well you can play those nefarious Mega Voices, of course.

Best,
Mike



[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 07-08-2008).]

I found out that the Motif-Rack XS has a GM bank of sounds that are "full" Motif XS sounds. Even though the Motif-Rack XS isn't fully GM compatible, with its separate bank of GM sounds there should be no problem playing SMF's through the Motif-Rack XS. Although, if you manually select sounds from the Preset Banks you will need to choose voices that aren't Mega or SAV voices or you may run into problems when playing SMF's. It might actually be possible to use SAV sounds without any problems. We will have to wait and see.

Best,
Mike

Gang,
Do not expect the EA ( extended articulation voices) in the XS rack to be like the T2...that are NOT even close. They don't work the same way and I for one was not inpressed with them. I did't even find that they do the same things at all. Very disappointing to me anyways.

It will be interesting to see if others agree.

The XS does have some great sound though. Not enough for me to keep it.

Lee

will tyros 3 be Musical ? or still just a digital workstation ?

Quantized looped base 8 bar (max) Styles 'CD polished' (no live feel) and too repetitious to suit my taste. You be the judge..

If Ketron ever gets the Audya out the door, (by summer of 2015 for sure ) it will be the first and only arranger (besides Lionstrac's Qrranger "now available" I believe .) that brings some diversity and randomness to auto-accompaniment Style playing. On top of that the Audya should have a suitable Live Band sound, feel and groove to it. The cost will be astronomical though and because of it may not sell near as well as Ketron was hoping.

Tyros3?? We'll have to wait and see but most likely it will be just an incremental upgrade to the Tyros2. Maybe Yamaha will surprise us though, you never know.

Best,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 07-11-2008).]

I was told by Ketron sales that the target cost in US for Audya is $4,000 - $4,500
Lee

Mike, sorry, but I need to clarify some of these points..

Firstly the Yamaha modules Motif, Motif ES and the Motif XS are FULLY GM1 and GM2 compatible and meet the full midi spec. (I own a Motif ES Rack).

What Yamaha have done is put BETTER sounds into the GM banks, but they still respond to the standard GM bank patches 0-127 as well as all controller and other GM requirements.

In some cases the sounds are even layered, not because Yamaha had to, but because they CHOSE to at the sample level, so users can get superb sounding SMF's even though they are still just the basice GM soundset.

There are several threads about the GM patches at the Motif Forums. And in particular Bad Mister (yeah thats his nick!!) has written several great explanations of this subject. (he is the, or one of the, chief Yamaha techs in the U.S.)

Personally, I always use the higher bank sounds as they have better efx and the ability for insertion effects.

Dennis

Thanks for your reply Dennis.

Since the Motif Racks are basically a Motif keyboard without the keys I assumed the Motif Rack modules were not 'fully' GM compatible since the Motif 'keyboards' aren't, from what I've been told anyway. And guess how I found out about the Motif keyboards (side note: in particular he was talking about the Motif XS keyboard) but would apply to the whole Motif line no doubt - that's right, our friend Phil Clendeninn i.e. Bad_Mister of Yamaha U.S.. Now, he could have blurted out that piece of information and it may have been incorrect (nobody's perfect right?) , but when I called him on it he didn't reverse the remark he made, so I assume he was stating facts and knew what he was talking about. Anyway, if you know something regarding the Motif Racks that proves they are "fully" GM compatible then I don't doubt you Dennis. I haven't read the RACK-XS manual yet and the manual could specifically state that it/they are i.e. "fully" GM compatible. If the Motif Racks ARE then all the better.

Best,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 07-12-2008).]

GM and GM2 have nothing much to do with Mega voices. I was informed a while back that if you record an SMF on a T2 or S900, using a style that has Mega voices, if it is played into a Motif with supposedly the same Mega voices, some of the trigger notes (you know, the stuff that is added to the basic notes to give it the extra realism) don't correspond on the Motif.

My idea was to use an S900 at home to generate the guitar parts for SMF's, then play it into a Motif Rack on the gig (don't want to haul two keyboards, no matter HOW light the second one is! ) from my G70. Apparently, this can't be done.

Is there anyone out there that can directly refute this from personal experience (not just reading a manual)..? It would be great if it COULD be done, but from what I've been told, it's a no-go...

Mike,

The proof is in the use!!

I have a multi setup for that purpose, for when I am trialling new smf songs.
It responds to ALL midi commands and works exactly as a GM module should.

I do not use the GM setup for shows as I have other multis for them using higher bank sounds.

Now, without putting words into hi mouth, I suspect Phil was perhaps trying to say the Motif line, and by extension the racks, are not GM sound modules, and he is correct they are not, and they are not setup to be so. But they ARE GM compatible and will respond as I have previously stated when setup for that purpose.

Dennis

Diki,
I suspect there is much more going on "under the hood" in the execution of mega voices.

I have never really dissected a song file created by a Tyros, to reverse engineer so to speak, but I wouldn't mind betting there is also some serious sysex being generated at the same time. Sysex that would ONLY be programmed into the Tyros style data.

There are limited mega voices on the Motif ES and when I have tried to play Yamaha styles (using the OMB software) and trying to utilise these mega voices the style always "glitches" and through a process of elimination I have concluded there is more happening in the CASM section and with the mega voice than is apparent.

If someone can record a simple SMF using a mega voice style, it only needs to be 8 bars, and send it to me I would be interested in attempting to investigate just what is happening. I had a tyros 1, but never thought of actually recording a style to an SMF, but sadly I no longer have it.

Dennis

"Be part of electronic keyboard history and join us for one of the first UK public showings of the new Yamaha Tyros 3 at the East Sussex National Golf Club & Resort in East Sussex on Wednesday 8th October 2008.

The instrument will be presented by Yamaha International keyboard player/demonstrator Peter Baartmans.".................

http://music-tyros.com/

New Pics revealed....

what are those two buttons alongside the Mod wheels?...........Hmmmmmm?

I beleive those buttons are for the Ariabic type scales for instant changes, like the S700

Frank I think they are more like the PA800 ASSIGNABLE buttons which can trigger many different funtions on/off/etc?

I have a sinking feeling they might be the same kind of assignable switches they have on the MotifXS, which controls a lot of the SA voices, and has been received very poorly in comparison to the system used on the T2...

But for all here, I sincerely hope NOT...

Diki......Dont you like Jig Saw Puzzles?....why think negative? ....
The T3 will be the best arranger ever created on this planet so far!!!

Not if they put the SA system into it that the MotifXS users hate so much...

Will there be more pieces to the puzzle next Tuesday 29 ?

If so , that would leave 3 more pieces left after , so , if they follow there every 2 week posting then the puzzle would be completed on Sept. 9th.

Then maybe we will know... , I hope !

Later ,
Gary 

It’s also the second day of the Pakefield Keyboard Festival, and the Tyros 2 was also launched on the second day of the Festival.
I will let you know my personal view of it (And any other new boards launched) in comparison to others when I get back.
Hopefully others who attend will give their views so as to make it balanced.

Bill

Bill sneak a pic plus a nice review...

Thanks Bill , any info would be great !!

Later ,

Gary 

http://www.music-tyros.com/


We're getting closer

Yup !!

They just added new pieces !!

That guitar sounds sweet !

Hey , Donny , are you loosing as much sleep over this as I am? LOL

Later,

Gary 

Gary Im losing more sleep over the NEW ROLAND TOTL Arranger

Roland Totl aranger,dont believe it . . .

Impuls

Do you know something we don't?

Ian the Curious

That guitar sounds luscious. I wish I could play like that!

Beakybird

Hi Donny

Roland will properly release a new pro arranger in the near future. But only Roland knows the date.

Niels

That I already know........the sooner the better. I'm ready

Chances are the person who did that demo didn't play it directly on the Tyros 3 from the keyboard. Most often these demos are put together using professional studio musicians with MIDI guitar interfaces and other MIDI converters so that live musicians are playing live parts that are then recorded using the sounds from the instrument. It's a very deceptive and common practice because even if you were a truly gifted incredible player (which most people aren't), mimicking the part directly from the keyboard would be impossible.

From the demos the Tyros 3 sounds good so far but I'm not hearing it do anything that my Wersi doesn't do much better. Until Yamaha makes an arranger with 1GB+ of factory ROM for the sounds I don't think Wersi has anything to worry about.

Hey Donny ,

Roland will release there new ToTL after we buy the T-3 .

Either way , we get screwed !! LOL

Later,

Gary 

Honestly I aint buying nothing until I really take a deep look into these new offerings for sure....the hype aint working here this time around Next up is all about MY NEEDS & comfort zone period!
Sounds & styles aren't an issue at this time Im happy with what is out there in the G70 & Tyros arrangers....I want ease of use in navigation & quality features eg: VH, search Mp3/Smf/ & I know this won't be there but SEPERATE MODE PLAYING to include "simultaneous" STYLE/SMF/MP3/OTS/
D-beam availability. Tilt screen on the Roland............I'm waiting



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 07-28-2008).]

Until Wersi's start costing less than a nuclear submarine, I don't think YAHAMA has anything to worry about.

chas

I'll remind you guys of these posts in January 2009, after NAMM when Roland STILL will not have released a replacement for the G70, IE a 76 note arranger keyboard.

Maybe a revised KF series set of keyboards?? But no specific arrangers per se.

Dennis

Oh boy! the Crystal Balls are in FULL FORCE again

If that is what they are doing, it is just so WRONG !!!
t.

Agreed Tony! Another possibility is they did it all through MIDI programming using Cubase 4.

Or lastly, that Peter Baartmans is a better keyboard player than we give him credit for.

Best,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 07-28-2008).]

The manufacturers don't see it as wrong, they see it as marketing at its finest. They figure "so what if you can't play the same thing directly from the instrument", at least if you think you can you'll most likely buy it. This practice is used by nearly every manufacturer and Yamaha is guilty of it too. Peter Baartmans may be a wonderful player but he is sequencing songs on a computer, not any Tyros1, 2, or 3 and making the custom demos for Yamaha on the computer. The Tyros 3 itself is used as nothing more than a sound module. Sad but true.

In some cases many of the built in demos on a keyboard utilize sounds that aren't even present in the factory sound ROM, they are on secondary chips where the demo songs reside. Is it fair for them to do that? Hell no! Once again if you don't know then you're none the wiser and what you don't know won't hurt you.

Hey Donny, no cloudy balls here!!

(my last post was more "tounge-in-cheek" rather than serious.)

But for all those who ARE waiting for Roland to step up to the plate...fellas, WISHING aint gonna make it happen ya know!!! No matter how hard you try.

D

Wishing don't make anything happen...

You get what you get, when they get it to you. No sooner, no later...

Most of the TOTL stuff operates on about a three year cycle, so most everybody's close to it. But me, I run a MUCH longer cycle than that (unless something blows up!). I can wait a cycle or two more before I NEED a new arranger.

I guess that's the telling question, isn't it? Do you WANT a new arranger, or do you NEED a new arranger..?

Me, I try to be honest with myself (and my bank manager!)... I probably NEED to try to play better, a lot more than I NEED a new arranger.

How about you?

Absolutely +1 to that !!

D

Just heard the new Yamaha sample (number 3); I'm not impressed. I'm still waiting to hear a good standard kit drum set from Yamaha.

Ensnareyou:
It's truly shocking what you are trying to tell here! Perhaps Wersi uses the methods you describe but there is one thing I know for sure : The Yamaha Tyros(x) demo's are played without external instruments, sequencers of whatever.
Why should they? ..... this is the way Tyros3 sounds and is playable for all real keyboardists.

It's obvious you are a Wersi-fan, but your statement 'Wersi can do it much better' makes me smile.... please wake up!

Agree with Ensnareyou!
Listen many time the new T3 guitar demo..is a totally sequencing song, drumkits sounds always flat, the same like the T2...

Try to listen better when is chaning the chords and the drum fills...the Strings pad remain with the same chord, all the notes ON and the Guitar continue make the soloist.. No possible on style player...or the numebr 3 mean that you have to use 3 hands??
Wait to play with your hands this same demo and then we can believe if was really a true style.
Wake UP guys...

You clearly misread my previous post. I did not say Yamaha used external sound modules to try and deceive anyone. The sounds generated in the Tyros 3 demos are sounds from the Tyros 3. How those sounds are played is an entirely different story though. Contrary to what you believe the factory demos are recorded using computer based sequencers such as Logic, Cubase, etc. using live musicians triggering MIDI fitted instruments i.e MIDI Guitar, MIDI wind instruments, Drum triggers and using the Tyros as a sound source. "Why should they" you ask? The reason for doing so is that it's far easier to record a real sounding guitar, drum, or sax part by actually playing a real instrument with a MIDI converter triggering the samples of the Tyros 3 (or any other instrument for that matter). Nearly every manufacturer is guilty of using these techniques and while it may be the sounds from the actual keyboard (or most often a prototype sound module being triggered), the manner in which the demos are played and recorded is quite deceptive. Few people are even aware these techniques are employed and for good reason. Like I said before... what you don't know won't hurt you according to the manufacturers.

If you believe that even the most skilled keyboardist can mimic these demos by playing them live I'd like to see them do it. That would have to be one phenomenal musician and a near impossible task even for the truly gifted. An average keyboardist wouldn't even stand a chance of pulling it off. Sometimes what sounds so simple is much harder than one can imagine.

Wersi did in fact use Cubase for many of their demos but they aren't trying to trick you by saying they don't. Cubase was actually part of the OAS software all the way up until OAS 7. After that Wersi developed their own internal sequencing software. I'm sure many of the OAS 7 demos are still recorded using Cubase.

My reference to Wersi being able to do it much better wasn't out of line. Even if the Tyros 3 has 500MB of sound ROM that ROM has to be spread out for hundreds and hundreds of sounds therefore breaking down to maybe a MB or two per sound if that. The Wersi has nearly 1 GB of factory sounds and using VST's I can utilize sounds that employ 1GB or more for a single sound. If you believe the Tyros 3 can outperform a disk based sample player then give GigaStudio, Halion, or Kontakt a listen and see how well the Tyros sounds hold up in comparison. Here are a few examples:
http://www.sampletekk.com/proddemos/WG/everybodyhappy.mp3
http://www.sampletekk.com/proddemos/WG/WhiteGrandDemo9.mp3
http://www.sampletekk.com/proddemos/WG/Restitution.mp3
http://www.sampletekk.com/proddemos/WG/WhiteRock.mp3
http://www.sampletekk.com/proddemos/WP/WorrasProphetDemo1.mp3
http://www.sampletekk.com/proddemos/BG/Adagio_Cantabile_Mid.mp3
http://www.sampletekk.com/proddemos/BOB/BiggaGiggasBobDemo1.mp3
http://www.sampletekk.com/proddemos/BOB/BiggaGiggasBOBDemo5.mp3
http://media.soundsonline.com/ip/mp3/229778.mp3
http://media.soundsonline.com/ip/mp3/229777.mp3
http://media.soundsonline.com/ip/mp3/229788.mp3



[This message has been edited by Ensnareyou (edited 07-29-2008).]

You seem to think the memory-size for sounds makes the difference in quality ? ... I doubt that very much.

The quality of the samples, the SA2, the megavoices, the excellent programmed musical styles, the ease of use, the stable OS etc..... they together make a great machine.

In my view neither the Mediastation nor the Wersi can offer these combined in one box.
Especially the MS 'shines'in non-musical-feel styles, unprofessional recorded demos and Liontracs persists in telling what is wrong with ALL other brands

Sorry guys..... I was not able to suppress my feelings this time

Stay on topic, the "mine is better then yours" attitude serves no useful purpose whatsoever.

Bill

Excactly what does Wersi have to do with T3 Coming?

Being a reasonably accomplished pro audio engineer I can confidently say that given appropriate recording techniques the memory size of the samples does matter. If you believe that Yamaha can make a sample with a few Megabytes that rivals one of several Gigabytes you are sadly mistaken. The reason manufacturers use lower amounts of ROM isn't because they can squeak phenomenal sounds out of a few MB of ROM, it's because it's cheaper for them to do so.

I welcome anyone to bring their Tyros I, II, or 3 (when they get one) over and sit it side by side my Wersi factory sounds or running a large sample VST library and see how well your keyboard fares. I already know which one is going to come out ahead and it won't be the Yamaha. I've owned the best Yamaha has to offer so it's not like I don't have a frame of reference to go by.

I'm curious whether you've actually played a Wersi OAS 7 instrument or a Mediastation? Given your statements I'd venture that you haven't. The Mediastation sounds far better than you and others think it does. Sure the styles on the Mediastation aren't similar to Yamaha's but sound wise the Mediastation is far better than you can imagine.

Wersi has an extremely well integrated and stable OS and I find it far more intuitive than Yamaha's. Even with the numerous features the Wersi has that the Yamaha's lack the Wersi is still a piece of cake to operate. Try one and see for yourself.

yes, really stable OS: http://youtube.com/watch?v=EjS_BJdHh9E
just look in google how may tyros have OS issue and yamaha seem not interested for make update, they prefer to exit with a new model.
If you remember the first tyros 2 shipment in germany arrival broken to the costumers with a fatal error...maybe you forget the old story...

Free to buy what you better like, but don't me make me laugh when you compare the tyros ROM soundfont to the all other bigger company like Native instruments, Gigastudio and so on..

SA is available in some way under gigastudio too, so I don't who really have discover the hot water.
Tyros sounds really good for what they can offer in one embedded system.
Enjoy ( and buy) what you play.

Keep in mind this is a 'General Arranger Keyboard Forum' and NOT a (Giga)sampler (tank) or VST plugin forum .... totally different products.
The quality of Native Instruments plugs is outstanding, but no 'earning' of Lionstracs at all, just a 3rd party product.

Yes and TYROS 3 will out sell all others combined worldwide Dedicated legions of loyal fans are preparing to purchase as we speak!
enjoy what you play

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 07-29-2008).]

You are right, then remember also that the mediastation is one arranger too.
Is not my fault if now we can hosting in realtine 10 ASIO applicaction and the native Instruments Komplete Synth (demo version, ready to register)are now installed in the code OS as default host engines.
It mean that now I'm able to talk about styles and 3rd party ASIO/VST products in the "General Arranger keyboard forum" too.

Is not my fault if tyros can drive only the internal ROM soundfonts and limited only on this arranger forum.


[This message has been edited by LIONSTRACS (edited 07-29-2008).]

Thank you!

Same old Roel..

'Being a reasonably accomplished pro audio engineer I can confidently say that given appropriate recording techniques the memory size of the samples does matter. If you believe that Yamaha can make a sample with a few Megabytes that rivals one of several Gigabytes you are sadly mistaken. The reason manufacturers use lower amounts of ROM isn't because they can squeak phenomenal sounds out of a few MB of ROM, it's because it's cheaper for them to do so.

I welcome anyone to bring their Tyros I, II, or 3 (when they get one) over and sit it side by side my Wersi factory sounds or running a large sample VST library and see how well your keyboard fares. I already know which one is going to come out ahead and it won't be the Yamaha. I've owned the best Yamaha has to offer so it's not like I don't have a frame of reference to go by.

I'm curious whether you've actually played a Wersi OAS 7 instrument or a Mediastation? Given your statements I'd venture that you haven't. The Mediastation sounds far better than you and others think it does. Sure the styles on the Mediastation aren't similar to Yamaha's but sound wise the Mediastation is far better than you can imagine.

Wersi has an extremely well integrated and stable OS and I find it far more intuitive than Yamaha's. Even with the numerous features the Wersi has that the Yamaha's lack the Wersi is still a piece of cake to operate. Try one and see for yourself.'

Ensnareyou i respect your view but your post makes no sense. Firstly you post links to demos done on completely different products than the wersi that you are promoting to make the point that the wersi sounds better than any top end arranger. Thats just nonsense. Saying that it could sound better with professional studio work, and hiring pro musicians to play the styles would be more accurate. Right now i challenge you or anyone with a wersi or a mediastation to come up with a demo produced by the instrument and either by the manuifacturere or a wersi enthusiast that competes with the yamaha or any other top end main arranger manufacturer. Your a sound engineer so you will know that having access to the best sounds in the world does not instantly make the best sounding arranger instrument. I am not even going to debate this point with you because anyone that has spent any time at all using sounds from different sound sources will understand the complexities in making those sounds balance and blend. Secondly the sounds you have promoted GigaStudio, Halion, or Kontakt do not come shipped with either wersi or Mediastation and can be purchased separately and played through a lap top or in a studio without buying a £6000-8000 piece of hardware. However purchaseing these sounds still cannot make your hardware sound better than a professionally produced style from yamaha, korg or Roland. if you doubt that then please provide ONE DEMO OF A STYLE ON EITHER WERSI OR MEDIATSTION THAT COMPETES WITH A T2. PA1X/PA2X OR G70. JUST ONE ! By the way it has to be a manufactureres or enthuiasts style , not a cloned style from another manufacturers stable !!

You say that the mediastaion sounds better than many of us thinks its does. Why do you think that is ? Let me give you a hint. Every demo i have heard from the manufactures (Wersi or Mediastation) sounded inferior to even mid range products from the main three. We are talking very poor style programming , poor balance and generally lack lustre demos.

For example the Korg pa series has 4 variations per style. I think everyone knows that but what makes the styles so live and responsive is the fact that each variation has up to 6 Chord variations programmed into it. So depending on the chords that you play you can achieve up to 6 different accompaniment variations within one style variation ! its not just maths either. Korg actually do programme these chord variations in a musical and flowing/intergrated way. I dont know if Wersi goes into this kind of detail in style programming but you can see how having access to Giga sounds or other VST's sound sources still wont get you to the level of detail that maufacturers of these machines go into to produce great sounding arranger instruments. I for know for sure Mediastation do not. Maybe you can tell us about the wersi ?

The one point i agree with you is the use of studio produced demos that no pro could do on the keyboard itself. Its a dirty tactic to sell keyboards .

It seems someone didn’t read my earlier post.

If you want to enter into childish “Mine is better then yours” or”I like My styles better then anybody else’s so the rest mush be rubbish” then start ANOTHER thread and DON’T hijack this one.

This thread is about Tyros 3, including PERSONAL opinions of the sounds so far. NOTE the word “PERSONAL” which some people seem to have difficulty understanding. (I suggest some of you get a dictionary out and look it up)

Thanks for reading

Bill

Mr Lionstracs,

What good is your keyboard if you won't make it available?

I'm still waiting to hear from your when there will be a demo model I can try around New York...

Chony

I don't know...This guy does alright without the need for any midi guitar or wind controllers!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfswO0jQOfc&feature=related

Hi Miden
Have a look in the Yamaha manual and sales blurb, and you will find all the Megavoices have been recorded using the appropriate Midi controller. (Midi Guitar Pickup for Guitars, Midi wind controller for wind instruments etc)
Personally I couldn’t care less how it’s done, providing it gives the impression of the real instrument when I play it on a keyboard. (Sounds still have a long way to go, which is why there is still a selection of keyboards out there, and it is still the individuals choice as to which personally gives them most pleasure)
I am sure glad everybody is different. (Diversity is the spice of life)

Bill

I think the main point Yamaha is emphasizing with the Tyros3 sounds is the sounds themselves, and not necessarily the chops (or method) behind the playing. Whether it's done by means of a MIDI guitar, Cubase, or Peter Baartmans , Yamaha is trying to get the listener to hone in on the "sound" that the Tyros3 is producing, whether AC.Grand Piano, Irish Bag Pipe, or Jazz Guitar, or whatever. They of course want the sounds to sound as natural as can be to their native environment i.e. the real instrument itself being played by a real person, but if it can't be humanly achieved they need to fudge a little (or a lot ) to get it done needless to say. And it costs Yammie a whole lot less too than if they had hired world class musicians to attempt to do it. If the Jazz Guitar was done by a real person using a MIDI guitar, the session player would have commanded a premium price for his work and must have cost Yammie a pretty penny just for that one demo alone. More than likely though is was done by skilled software engineers using Cubase.

Yamaha has not really deceived anybody by doing this though. They have put up information saying as much i.e. that the demos can't necessarily be interpreted as something the user himself can actually accomplish when playing the instrument himself - that is, whatever the keyboard instrument might happen to be; in this case the Tyros3.

Giving the listener the opportunity to hear the sounds at their professional playing best can give him or her the inspiration and desire to try and attain those same ideals. Of course, 99.99999% of the population could never really attain the precise perfection that these demos demonstrate. Nevertheless practice does make perfect; and trying to attain those goals can only go in helping the player's own natural playing ability in the long run. In other words, it may be a possibility that someone on this very forum could be the next Peter Baartmans or even exceed Mr. Baartman's playing ability if he or she has the desire and dedication (and the chops) to attain or exceed that specific goal and ideal.

Another thing. We need to lighten up a tad because, as we all know, Nigel is looking over our shoulders and we don't want to upset him to the point of doing something rash now, do we?

As far as the sounds on the T3.. The AC Piano - is 'pretty good', the Irish Bag Pipe - 'I guess you need to be a full blooded Irishman to appreciate it to its fullest extent eh?' . I would rather have had a brilliant Scottish Bag Pipe sample though since it is the sound that is so well known throughout the world, instead of what they gave the T3. And finally the Jazz Guitar - 'sounds pretty good also, although nothing new or beyond what the T2 already brings to the table in my humble opinion. I would need to hear all of them in person before I make my final determination of their real worth though. Same goes for all the other voices in the new yammie as well.

Best,
Mike

All I got to say is... the first day I hear some demos by the Wersi or MS that totally blows away the T2 demos, or my G70, I'll go straight out and buy one. After over two years of listening to the same drivel, over and over and over again, all I can say is...

I still got my G70

Hi Diki
What’s a Wersi got to do with a Tyros 3 thread? (Start another thread if you want to talk Wersi)

Bill

Guys..., seriously, it's no secret that the keyboard makers have been (using outboard gear) to record the internal demos for years. What people seem to be missing is what one of the main reasons the demo button is there for.., it's there for the "salesman". Many music stores don't have experienced staff to demo keyboards. So they just press the demo button.

This is NO SECRET..., they've been doing this for years now. Yes, Ensnareyou is right about some sounds not even residing in the presets. Hell, my old PSR-550 had a more modern sound that used a (tweeked version) of the hip hop kit, BUT that tweeked version wasn't available as a preset kit to just choose from as a normal voice. It was only available by going into edit mode for that style-and there were some limitations too. This wasn't something you read about in the manual either.

**If you really think the makers are recording these awesome demos using the onboard patches by triggering them manually from the keybed itself---then boy do I have some nice ocean-front property to sell ya here in West Virginia** It's not just arrangers.., it's also done with the major workstations too.

Why do all these topics have to turn into peeing contests? Why can't you guys just accept that many of you have different opinions regarding keyboards.., and WHY do so many of you go ON and ON about one of the most SUBJECTIVE parts about a keyboard (THE SOUNDS). You want to argue, then argue about FEATURES.., why rip into the sound quality when cleary EVERYONE'S ear is going to be different. These constant peeing contests really make this a nasty place at times, and the topics just go to hell because of them.

**Also think about this... How often have you read about "real musicians" being used to record those great styles on your arrangers. Do you think they're all sitting in a circle, passing the keyboard around to each other? They're using outboard gear to trigger the internal samples. If they do this with the styles..., they're clearly doing it with the onboard demos too**


[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 07-30-2008).]

Bill... start your own forum if you want to act as moderator.

In the meantime, just as you feel the right to chime in on any topic with your Wersi chat, you can expect other members to do exactly the same...

Hi Diki

If it was a Wersi chat I would agree, but it is a Tyros 3 chat, and apart from replying to a statement by yourself (Which had no connection to the topic) where in this thread did I even mention Wersi.

Bill

Do you really need me to go through all the other threads that WEREN'T about Wersi, and detail where you chimed in with Wersi opinion or fact?

Why not sit back, relax, and wait for Nigel to decide whether or not to enforce strict 'on topic' behavior...?

Just don't hold your breath!

I might also point out that every arranger is COMPARED to all other arrangers. You can't really talk about one without a comparison to others, otherwise there is no reference, no comparison, no opinion. So lighten up, will you?!

Or NEVER mention the Wersi in anything other than a Wersi titled thread... Got to at least follow your own rules, shouldn't you?

This is the main difference; I compare the sounds of arrangers with real instruments, (The only true comparison) not other arrangers.

Bill

This place NEVER changes.....Ugh!!!!

Fortunately

Bill

Only person that can change it is YOU...

Don't like the topics, don't like the tone..? Post a more fascinating topic, post with a better tone.

Or just bitch about it... Your choice.

Very wise thought, Diki.

Hi



Apparantly not.

IMO one problem in this group is "thread hijacking".

No matter the original thread subject a number of members here starts riding their hobby when the thread reaches message #10. Just take this thread as an example.

IMO if anyone wants to discuss e.g. "Wersi" then THEY ought to start a "Wersi" thread; instead of hijacking a running thread.

Just my opinion!

Have a nice day
Jørgen

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The Unofficial YAMAHA Keyboard Resource Site

Mind you, you don't see Jørgen speaking up when a Roland thread gets hijacked!

There are technical, focused fora, and there are GENERAL arranger fora. Things tend to get general, on a 'general' forum...

My thoughts exactly!

Not bitchin' just my humble observation, which is shared by others. I do learn a lot here. Sometimes the personalities get overbearing. I'll say it again................

"This place never changes"

It's not this role of this place to change. It is up to the personalities that post here to change. I am not the "personality police". And I hate to think what that role would require. It would be a moderator's nightmare to have to try to censor every posting based on .... ummm I don't even know what that sort of censorship would be based on. And I know people would become very offended if I did start censoring postings in general. Just show some maturity and simply ignore postings from people that are unable to act maturely. It's the same as if you were talking together in any public place. You wouldn't even bother to engage someone in conversation that seemed to be acting like a jerk, you would just ignore them and walk on by. Do the same here as well and it will avoid a lot of unecessary aggravation.

[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 08-03-2008).]

Hi Diki



Right! 'cause I dont read Roland threads.

I might be naive; but I believed that the discussions were to stick to the thread subject (or rather close connected); and not anything else.

IMO we would all benefit if we all try to keep the discussion on the thread subject.

And if we want to discuss a new subject then start a new thread with this subject.

Just my opinion!!!
Jørgen

PS: Maybe I should read Rolands threads (and all other threads). As the thread subject apparantly is only a vague reflection of the thread content; I might find something interesting in ALL threads.

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The Unofficial YAMAHA Keyboard Resource Site

These threads take course due to the lull in the arranger marketplace. Boring these days.....