The question was asked about how much joy or pleasure the arranger gives you... an interesting thread, I thought.

Now it would be interesting to hear how much pleasure or joy you can get just playing a piano, or keyboard, or turn off ALL the auto stuff.

Just you, and a keyboard... and no help

Every Sunday, I get to church early just to play the Baldwin L Grand Piano we have.. I play strictly piano for 2 songs every Sunday service.One of my favorite songs is "Potters Hand" & "Above all" ...

I really enjoy playing a nice piano... nothing like it

I've said it before and I'll say it again...I rather play the organ than an arranger keyboard.

Organs are just more versatile and a good player will make it sound better then any arranger. Sounds, styles and technology alone don't make anyone sound good. The end product will always be a reflection of the talent and skill of the player. IMHO

Styles: I tend not to use them all the time. I probably play 60% without styles as I prefer ad lib.

Accompaniment: I rarely use it.

I would get bored rather quickly listening to arranger players utilizing the same accompaniments.

(I'm old-school and glad that I am)

So, in short, I get the most joy/bliss by playing an organ. It's after all the "Queen of Instruments'. Arrangers are second...but a distant second.

Taike

I know you people over there don't give a hoot about my opinions, but I will post it anyway.


I get equal pleasure playing just solo piano. In fact sometimes it is even better, because it IS just you and your instrument.

Dennis

When it comes to non arranger keyboard play..or with the accomp turned off..accept drums...I find it comfortable for me..I like to play left hand bass and piano...as we did in the "old " days..

I like to sit at the piano...but basically for my own enjoyment...voicing different chords to standards...I can sit and play piano for a couple hours, but after that I am ready to move on..I am not comfortable gigging piano...and the same with the accordion..maybe a couple hours..same situation with B3 organ..

Though still an arranger, My favorite playing choice is left hand bass with drums..with piano and color sound with the expression pedal...just like we did with SH101, JX10 and TR707...

The variety that a great arranger gives me..is unsurpassed...just turn off some bells and whistles once in a while..

Amen to that, Fran.

Just walked in the door from a trio gig, violin, double bass, and me on guitar. Gypsy jazz. I'll never have as much fun on any arranger as I have doing music with other ace players. To listen to someone else take a solo and then try to come up with the appropriate accompaniment is almost as fun as being the one taking the solo.

It's all fun and games to talk about drunk drummers and too loud guitarists, but one thing you can't do with an arranger is spontaneously react to someone else's leads.

Even when I'm playing keyboard, I use styles just for fun occasionally. Most times it is either solo, with other players, or with custom-built sequences that I did myself. So for me, immense joy comes from not playing the arranger.

If it's playing live with other good players, then that's 100% better than playing arranger or SMF.

If playing alone or solo, I prefer a piano to an organ keyboard. A full-size organ is something I only see or play in church any more. I'd love to play a set or two on a B3 or even an M3, that's where I came from. But usually I'll just muddle around with a digital piano at home or church. I love playing big major and minor 7th and 9th chords. And to break up the monotony of choir practices, I'll sometimes reset the tempo or rhythm of a song to a polka or rhumba.

Playing my XK-1 alone/solo is not much fun at all, even though it's my favorite board. I need some backing sound. Otherwise I play "Lonely Too Long," "Groovin" and half of the Rascals old songs over and over.

I can't play the guitar anymore because I no longer have the chops and the fingers are shot to hell. Lost the chops on the mandolin and piano years ago, so they're out. There are times when I play the arranger that I turn off everything other than the bass and drums, which is quite appropriate for lots of songs. So, I guess my answer to "How much joy playing do you get without your aranger?" is NONE!

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

I'm in the Rory camp. I would much rather play any way other than using an arranger. But, that's because of the pure pleasure of "trading fours", responding to innovative lead lines played "on the fly", etc. Of course, that free form sytle of playing works only at limited venues; mostly in a jazz setting (at least for me).

The most satisfying thing I do is play piano and guitar in a trio format with my son on bass(electric upright and bass guitar) and my grandson on drums. Next is C-1 or B-3 with drums and as many other superior players as the gig can justify (read money). Next is playing as a sideman on guitar, bass or keyboards. Then (and this is still enjoyable) is using an arranger with added players (guitar, horn(s), percussion, etc.). Last is a solo gig with or without an arranger. Really don't enjoy that much. Playing with other players is what it's all about for me.


Russ

Playing with other musicians has to be the best, the interplay places you in a new high.

I have owned a keyboard since 1979, it has been my best friend in many occasions. I get to arrange every part of the band from volume to effects and instruments. Then I get to play with what I feel is good arranging. (for my taste)

My keyboard has blessed me in many ways, one of which is the many friends I have made who share the same interest. I am still in music and it is an unbelievable emotional outlet. I could be in the worst of moods and find myself totally in involved. So much so that I have had pots burn on the stove and have forgotten to pick up my kids. Haaaaaa!

Keep making new keyboards, life is good.

John C.

Gary, have you tires buying a guitar with low action and lighter strings, it has helped me a bit.

For a keyboardist Playing solo arranger as a "POWER SINGLE" is no easy task "To make a living"....& I find many find it too difficult judging by discussions with local band members in the area & just rather go the easy route and play with others. Playing keyboards in a band situation which Ive done for 25 years previously to my 18 yr Solo career & all my joy was in the past
I dont miss it at all....dealing with all the frustrations, problems & aggravation is happily a memory for me... I play several instruments & just the fact of making music makes me happy not necessarily without an arranger which is easy enough to do it all from solo Piano to full Big band accompiament and the arranger can do it all either way.....Im never without an arranger so my answer is NONE!

Playing the piano is a wonderful experience...that's why I'm never without an 88.

I learned on piano, so it is like going home.

I sometimes shut off the accompaniment on my S900 and choose the SA Concert Guitar voice, and play guitar arrangements...it's awesome having that kind of control and sound...same goes for orchestral strings and choir/strings combinations....I can while away an hour or two so easily.

Ian

Exactly Ian....The joy is having an instrument like an Arranger KB that can easily serve all needs from nothing to everything

Hello everyone,

To begin, this is an Arranger Forum, so, the people that are members on this forum I would guess that�s what they have.
For what I had read from different members so far, I see that there are many different ways in the way the arrangers are use, some for SMF playback, others almost like a regular workstation, even like a solo Piano and some (like me) use the arrangers with their styles either customized or somehow edited in their registrations either with all the sections on or modified and or some parts muted.
The use of the arrangers can be done with some of the combinations with all the above.
The arranger player that is also a singer, of course use the vocalist feature assuming that the arranger has it or even if it does, some use an external unit like TC-Helicon, etc.
Some �Arranger players� came from a Piano background others like myself as a Pro-organist and for some, is the first instrument.
I also know that some members either Pros or amateurs can really play and others have some limitations (Pros and amateurs), therefore, the Needs and USE of the Arranger, depends very much not just on the personal skills, vocals or only instrumental, and or all the things I mention before.
This Proofs that the Arranger Keyboards are very Versatile and can be configured in many different ways according with the Needs and situation of the user.
In Europe the Arrangers are regarded as the "Workstation" before the Synths did.

A few times a week for half hour or so I play the Clavinova with all arranger functions turned off. I have my favorite tunes I play regularly then I play something that I have not played in some time that requires better chops than I currently have. Sad thing is one time I could easily play the piece but I lost what I had,as the old saying goes " Use it or lose it" That's reason enough go back to arranger mode

[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 07-18-2008).]

My two cents

I have played with bands and recently have played as a solo act performing my own music for the most part. I enjoy playing piano and singing, but find that while people usually enjoy my songs you are limited by what you can pull off by yourself. So I recently got interested in arrangers and so far I love them. I can immediately play songs of mine that need accompianment that I had almost given up on. I can also sound like I'm in a band which in some ways I miss.

I think that as far as entertainment and a "joy" factor go I prefer an arranger.

As far as I'm concerned being in a band is not worth the aggravation especially as I get older. Besides some of the other more obvious issues with a band are the following:

Moving equipment
Long setups and takedowns
Teaching others songs
Endless practice
People quitting
Work schedules
Less money (after splitting)
Worrying about others making mistakes not to mention your own
Finding people who want to do the same music
Ending up doing most of the work i.e. booking,advertising.

I'm happy playing solo and I would have to say that an arranger gives me much more versatility and appreciation from people who want to be entertained.

Just my opinion

Don Adams www.donadams.ca


Just my

Don Nice website I enjoyed browsing!

Good luck to you!!

One more reason to love my keyboard � The money I made in one night playing weddings and parties club with my keyboard most club musicians (on the average) made in four nights.
I continued to do what I did when I had my band, there are no rehearsals but lots of programming. It is a Fun instrument and the drummer does not lose the meter/beat. Nice.

John C.

Ps, Yes, this has been enjoyable reading.

I use to play my Yamaha baby G3 every single night for an hour or more while I was out of music. On the job these days, I sometimes stroll to the in-house acoustic and it doesn't do anything for me now. A lot of that has to do with time mgmt. I cannot afford not to constantly be on my arranger.

I get the same pleasure out of every keyboard instrument I play, the key layout is obvioulsy the same ...2 black 3 whites and so on, all the time my fingers are touching that time honoured configuration the instrument is of no real consequence! its the music I produce from my own ability thats important to me not the way the internal electronics of a particular instrument processes the sound.

My Friday night is on an 88 key Yamaha digital slab, and I am starting to really like the job. At first, I missed my rhythms and harmonies ( this thing has only USB! grrrrr ), but I altered my repertoire a little, and changed my mindset alot, and I treat it as a new entity now. I use very litte effect on my mic and this forces me to be more expressive with my voice, and aids in clarity when I speak, which I do more often in a piano-bar setting.

I still discourage singers from sitting in, but I encourage the crowd to join in from their seats as a group. This is a better way to stay in control of the pulse and energy of the room for me.

I don't know if I enjoy it more or less than using the 800, but it's a rewarding job, where I get to sing more intricate story type songs, and I sure don;t miss some of the boring dance tunes that I used to need to play to keep a crowd. Ahhhh, life is good !

The day they come out with an arranger that sounds and plays as good as a real drummer, the day they come out with an arranger that sounds and plays as good as a real bass player, the day they come out with an arranger that sounds and plays as good as a real guitarist...

That's the day I'll go solo and not look back.

In the meantime, any of you that think your arranger DOES sound and play as good as a real musician... I'm sorry, but you just must not have ever played with any good ones

Let's put it this way... Do you think that the keyboard parts in your arrangers styles play better than you? Most of you will probably say 'not'. Sure, they keep good time, but they have no inventiveness, no imagination, and most of the time, can't even do decent voice-leading, yet alone spontaneous reharmonization. And they ALWAYS play it the same way, every time you call up that style...

And yet, some of you are SO happy to play with drum, bass and guitar parts that suffer from exactly the same problem. Most of us can tell an arranger being used in a song as soon as the Intro stops, and the loops begin. That isn't how it is supposed to be. For the arranger to be a viable competition with a real band, not economically but 'musically' (you know, that thing that we musicians are supposed to care about ), a lot of this 'dumb robot' behavior has to be programmed out of the OS's we currently have...

In the meantime, I'll happily keep using arrangers... Got to feed myself, after all But I'll NEVER try to persuade anyone that it is 'better' except in that one area.

MONEY...

Let me rephrase:
The day already came when:
**Using the drum machine got me through jobs that would not allow room or volume for a drum set
**I've been playing my own bass lines for 30 years, as do many legit organists - the arranger bass just frees up part of my brain to be more creative in other ways - presentation, vocals, solos etc
** (Cover your ears, Nigel)
Don't even get me STARTED on guitarists - by far the hardest instrument/player to control in any band I ever worked in.

Give me players that stay in tempo, in key and SOBER ... and I'll rethink some of my solo jobs. The simple fact is: Many poor attitudes were responsible for diminishing band sizes, NOT technology or DJs.

How many times do band members hang out with their girlfriends on break, go to their cars to get high or drunk, take too many liberties with the time clock ... no thanx - in the world of full time music, which I am no longer a slave to, the smaller and tighter the ensemble = the MORE work. It's simple math.



I do love good players, but I hate trying to deal with attitudes, egos and drama on stage, and I have never been in a band that wasn't LOADED with all three. Since I went solo, the bills got paid, the clients got satisfied, and the music industry got a little bit richer.

I'll be the first to admit - yes!

So, playing in a band means dealing with people who are:
Unreliable
egotists,
drunks,
womanizers,
lazy,
too loud,
unable to keep tempo,
unable to learn new material,
too expensive,
have I missed anything?

Only the arranger keyboardist has somehow escaped/surmounted all these human faults that plague the ordinary unwashed musician.
But even they, the arranger keyboardists, aren't flawless. Nay! Their shortcoming: sanctimonious self-righteousness regarding how much better they sound than a live band; how much more professional and entertaining, the unnecessary burdens other musicians are.

I think I've about summed it up, yes? Slight hyperbole perhaps to make a point, but not so far off in premise.

Unable to sing harmony parts correctly
Unreliable equipment
Never has anywhere to hold practices
Quits at the drop of that hat

Lets not forget years ago pre computer age there wasn't any arrangers.....so bands were the norm. Not so today...too many alternatives for the talented KB player.

Just my opinion, but I don't consider an arranger keyboard an alternative for a TALENTED KB player. In fact, just the opposite. Before you lash back, think about it.

chas

I LOVE a good band, but I'd rather hear and watch a good soloist rather than a bad band. In my experience, there are more mediocre bands working than mediocre solo KB/vocalists.

OK Chas I wont lash back....& I wont respond after thinking about it....

I'll just say I dont agree sorry.

Nothing to be sorry about, Donny. We just happen not to agree on this particular point. I'm sure there are many things we DO agree on. That's what discourse and discussion is all about.

chas

Crikey mate .... Hey Dennis you should know by now that Aussies have high priority here at Synth Zone lol.

Thanks Nigel, that makes me feel a little better

Good to know there are some others flying the flag too, and can understand just how blunt we (as Aussies) can be at times

Cheers
Dennis

Any country that sings about marsupial bondage got a lot to answer for...!

LOL, yes you may have a point Diki!

ROTFLMAO Diki Now where is Rikki to weigh in with her opinion lol???? I'm sure she would have something to add to this.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 07-22-2008).]

I hear ya Chas...although I from the old school of closing my eyes when I listen to music & let my ears tell me whats good not how or what its played on.........different strokes I guess. Music is an extension of your soul, talent can be observed in many many ways & I always open my mind to at least give it a listen.



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 07-22-2008).]