chas ... I'm with you on the split definition of 'standards' vs 'jazz standards', with the latter being tunes written BY jazz writers and/or performers for jazz players (primarily at least) ...
It is interesting how some of the standards from the "Great American Song Book" have become standards for jazz players ... If you go to hear a 'jazz group', you can pretty much count on hearing songs such as "All The Things You Are", "Teach Me Tonight", "I'll Remember April", "Summertime" etc. ...
I really enjoy hearing songs with 'simple' chord structures, such as "Sunny" played by jazz players who add the more complex chords ...

I think it's a shame that "Feelings" got the bad rap it did ... The chord structure was similar to other songs such as "A Taste of Honey", that have enjoyed popularity and been played be a wide range of players ... I think it was more the fact that it was sung by just about EVERY major pop artist at the time ...
Besides, I used to do a pretty good job on it myself !!! ...

t.

PS ... anyone else want to join in the discussion?

I think 'Feelings' eventually broke up the Fabulous Baker Brothers Ahhh...Michelle....

Tony, I think I disagree.

I think Jazz is how musicians freely interpret a composition, not how its written, ergo you could take any song, Feelings for example, throw in some interpretation and over time and refinement it could become a staple in the reps of players.

As you guys would know a LOT of the tunes in any of the Real Books, came about becausee guys were blowing over a set of chords, and someone came up with a really good melody and thought "hey, thats a good tune" and it then sort of hung around in the reps and others heard them and gradually adopted them as well.. It wasn't written specifically as a jazz song, it just evolved that way.

As is the case with many of the jazz tunes we hear and use today, they just eveolved from songs composed for other purposes.

Just my 2 cents.
Dennis

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 07-22-2008).]

No offense, but any head written over the "Feelings' changes, IF UNALTERED, is going to get gonged before the second verse!

And, if you alter the changes, it isn't 'Feelings' any more...

I guess what we have to take account of is that 'popular' music, as opposed to straight ahead jazz tunes, USED to incorporate changes that didn't have to be altered much, if at all, to provide a challenge and and interesting blow... But for quite a while now, 'popular' music has devolved to the point of utter stagnation in the chordal area.

Some of it comes from the generation of 'loop' users... Obviously, the changes are going to be as short as the loop... Most great jazz tunes, show tunes, and music from the pre-eighties had a chord structure the length of the entire verse. 32 bar loops are NOT what the kids are using (even the jazz kids!), so the whole idea of a long form solo have disappeared.

Then there was the move in jazz towards modal soloing, and modal pieces, rather than using song changes, and the combination of these two things has, I think, led to the current state we are in...

I graduated from and still live near one of the top rated jazz programs in the country and often visit with some of my friends who are now on the faculty. Most of them say the kids entering as freshman have great chops - better than in years past - but have no concept of the jazz idium. Most of these faculty frienes played with people like Stan Kenton, Woody Herman, etc during their college days. Who are the kids going to play with today? For that matter - who are they going to listen to so they can learn?

Hammer

I dunno about that one...

In all fairness, between Youtube, Sirius, all the download services, kids today have a FAR larger range of music they could easily listen to. Sure, going out and catching some of the legends live is getting harder and harder to do, but not one of them can complain that they have nothing to listen to!

If they aren't listening to the greats, it's because they are not trying to... it's easier than ever before to do it if you want to!

I love this version of "Yesterday", by Oscar Peterson.

Terrific strings arrangement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeSpLJOxasQ

Ian

Ian, I would literally sell my soul to the devil (if he'd have it) to have his chops. Not bad, for a Canadian .

Once again, seizing upon an opportunity for another 'HiJack' (of this original HiJack), I pose this question:

What song or songs (most people have several) do you get the most sensual (ie. touches your soul) pleasure from PLAYING (regardless of what you're playing it on - piano, guitar, organ, juice harp, or kazoo). For me (today, anyway)

Feelin' good - Anthony Newly
Funny Valentine
How deep is the Ocean
'Round midnight - Monk
Any "blues in F", the 'head' doesn't matter

Note: Doesn't have to be your favorite song(s), just the one that gives you the most pleasure PLAYING.

chas

I guess the most "feeling" songs I play are some of the old standards.

"Someone to Watch Over Me" is one, as is "Smoke Gets In Your Eyes" and a jazz ballad arrangement of "Don't It Make My Brown Eyes Blue"...

Several others would be...

"As Time Goes By"

"Here There, and Everywhere" (Beatles)

"Yesterday" (Beatles again)

"Comme Au Premier Jour" by Andre Gagnon...another Canadian...fantastic composer and pianist....more in the classical vein....e-mail me and I'll send you my MP3 recording of it.(done on S900 with a style I assembled)

"All the Things you Are"

"The Nearness of You"

Just too many to mention...playing these tunes can sometimes bring a tear to my eye and they really give me a sense of warmth and elation.

See...I have feelings too.

Ian