How do you define sequencing ?


Does sequencing strictly apply to midi ?

Is sequencing playing a style off your arranger in to midi software to generate a midi template that you can manipulate or add to ?

Or is sequencing strictly using midi to create original composition track by track to create a final song ?

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http://www.esnips.com/web/Songs

A sequence is the order of events..

A midi sequence is the order of midi data events..


One note that follows another is a sequence..recorded or live...

Who are you, and what have you done with the REAL Dan01?

chas

A sequence is anything done on a sequencer...

What gets confusing is whether or not your arranger CALLS it a 'sequencer'. Usually, a 'recorder' is something that records in audio, like the MP3 recorders on S900, and optionally on Korg's, etc., but Roland, just to screw with you, have a feature they call the 'Recorder', which is NOT audio. It is simply a special kind of sequencer that captures (as MIDI) the total output of your arranger, as you play it, then you store that as an SMF, and can then work on it, one track at a time, in the '16 Track Sequencer' for fine tuning and overdubbing, etc..

Are you confused, yet..? Mission accomplished! :

Still the same old me...
I was following the "i'm the demo guy thread" and didn't want to hijack the thread and there was a lot of conversation of sequencing and just thought I would throw this question out , via this thread

Personally.. I do not sequence anything. I write lyrics, than use styles to try and create songs by recording audio tracks on a hard disk recorder. I do try to be a little more creative with the process, but other than using my arranger with my duo or at Church... I have never connected my sd1 with a computer...

I am more interested in knowing exactly how each member uses there arranger to sequence with...

Well, that 'Recorder' feature in the G70 is usually my starting off point...

I try to capture as close to the final arrangement as I can in a 'live' play-through. It helps me solidify the structure, and flow of the piece. After that is done, it gets saved as an SMF, then transfered by USB to my computer. It then gets opened in Cubase, at which point, the sky's the limit!

I can edit the sequence, rearrange the sequence, change sounds volumes, dynamics, whatever I want to, at this point. If there are odd meter bars, it's often easier to do them at this point than try to finagle the arranger into it on the initial capture. I can also clean up any noticeable 'glitches' (everybody has them!), and put any tempo changes, rits, etc., in at this point.

From this point on, it depends on what the sequence is for...

If it's a backing track for the gig, it gets transfered back to the G70, and maybe some last minute EQ and drumkit adjustments are made in the Makeup Tools section to finalize things, then I'll import a text file of either the lyrics, or a chord chart and any instructions I might want to remember (Mark/Jump points, bars intro, that sort of thing) and sync that up.

If it's a bed for a client, for transfer to their studio, I'll record each of the parts as an audio track, and break out and solo most of the drums separately (but I'll often provide a 'best guess' drum mix as well, in case it's good enough!), and I'll take off all reverb, but usually leave on any chorus, if it's part of the signature sound. Then I deliver the audio tracks and the SMF of the session, for them to overdub at their convenience. They can also replace any of my G70 sounds at this point with VSTi's or their own keyboard sounds, if they wish.

If it's a project I am doing entirely at my home studio, at this point I'll record the talent's singing, guitar playing, whatever else needs audio for it (or go to the main studio and track there to a mix), break out all the tracks to audio tracks, and either use them or replace with VSTi's, then mix and master...

How much or little of the original arranger output finally makes it to the finished track depends a lot on how close the style is to what we want. Sometimes, it ends up as little more than a 'guide track' for all the parts to be replaced with either real players, or me playing parts one at a time. Bass lines, especially, I usually find, HAVE to be replaced, preferably by a real bassist. Drums are often layered with some audio loops, Stylus, that sort of thing, if we haven't time to get a real drummer in (or the budget!).

But, I feel the strongest point about the whole process is, if you can find a style remotely similar to what you have in mind, an arranger makes creating, at the very least, great 'guide tracks' in as little time as humanly possible, and sometimes they can even end up in the finished product, if they suit the song well.

Hope this helps...

Thanks Diki ....

Perhaps a few others will chime in..

BTW... what kind of hardware ( do you have a break out box ?) are you using with your computer ?

Desk Top ? Lap Top ? PC or Mac ?

Hi Dan!
I rarely sequence, but when I do...it's usually for the kids at school. I use garage band on a mac, or reason if I need better sounds.
At home, I can sequence right in the PA80, but I don't have a need to. I don't consider using styles as sequencing either...even if you tweak them. In my book - a sequence is a note by note creation, and most of the ones I use are commercially available. Fran and I were Tune1000 dealers back in the day, and that's where most of my sequences come from.

I also utilize the arranger with backing harmonies to create personal live arrangements to record to MP3 format...then I play over them and sing lead. I think many cats do this.
Heh, heh .... "cats" .... I sound like a jazz guy that plays "gigs" now, huh?

I have an ancient Mac (Quicksilver733) running Cubase VST5, a MOTU 2408mk2 audio interface. a Midex3 MIDI interface (do NOT get one of these for OSX!), a couple of UAD-1 cards and Mackie HR824mk1 monitors.

Despite it's age, it has successfully run over 36 track projects and VSTi's (I freeze as fast as possible!). Primarily, I do MIDI production and some light audio projects, so it does OK... It's close to bomb poof, and that counts a lot more than the latest gizmos, in my book...

Main keyboards are the G70, a K2500S fully loaded, and a Triton.

Basically, if you can't make a decent track with this, better gear won't help!

You can have 20K in studio gear, but if you do not have a good ear and creative mind, it means nothing.
I break down creating music into 2 categorys
#1. recording #2. production.

I mentioned in a thread a while ago that I made some recordings and sent them to a professional demo person ( Laurie Z r.i.p http://lauriez.com/tributes.php)I knew...
She blasted my work. It forced me to really listen to the radio and made me really think about recording and production...

It's a shame she passed away from breast cancer before she could listen to some of my final work.
I am going to start recording again and I will always think of her when I do ...

I break it down into two other things, first...

1) The composition... (is it a great tune, is there a great hook, does it move you?)

2) The arrangement... (does it compliment the tune, does it distract from the song, is it's emotional content the same as the lyrics, does it build and flow in the right places?)

Before you even START recording, those two have to be nailed, otherwise it's an exercise in futility, IMO

Maybe you CAN fix these in the middle of production, but it's much easier if you have these clear in your mind (or pre-demo on the arranger) before you fire up the computer...

You don't learn the 2 other things until you get some honest feedback... Everyone tends to be nice when you play some of your tunes to friends...

The question I have, Is composition originality ? When using styles, you really can't say it's your composition (if I understand the terminology correctly)...

In 2002 prior to heading to NAMM 2002 to demo the SD1 for Ketron , I decided to create & record songs with my SD1 . But how original was it ? After all I was using a style that was not created by me personally. So when I did think about hooks, chord progessions etc.. I gave serious thought on how I can make that recording original or have other SD1 owners say "how did he do that" .....

That's when I started listening & selecting parts from different styles, isolating those parts , matching tempos and laying in the parts on separate tracks..

For instance.. I used a string part from the 3rd variation of a baroque style. Baroque styles are usually at a 100 to 120 bpm tempo on a arranger. But when I slowed down that style to 72 bpm, I was able to mix the string part onto a separate track... If you head to my website and listen to "shoreline" .. you can hear the string parts added during the song..which in turn created pace to what was originally a very slow style ( tribal age on SD1) ..

If that example is "composition" vs originality, than I can understand what you are talking about.

I may be out for the rest of the night .. be back wednesday ...

I guess I'm straying off my original topic

Recording, sequencing .. it's all music !

Well, I have to say that, if you are worried that a 'composition' is not yours, because you used a style, first of all, turn on the arranger and let it sit a couple of hours. Did it write a single tune?

Didn't think so.

Maybe it's just terminology, but I tend to assume that 'composition' refers to the melody and chords of a tune, and the lyrics, if not an instrumental. And, other than invoking the 'Riff' feature, you can be assured your arranger will never come up with ANY of those! So, let's forget that one... OK?

Maybe you are thinking of the 'arrangement', which has a LOT more to do with the arranger. But, as you point out, there are a myriad ways to take what the arranger spits out, and carve your own personality onto it. Combine different styles' parts is definitely one way, wholesale replacement of arranger parts with your own playing is another, hiring another player to come in and lay down real parts is another... But, once again, it's you at the helm, making the decisions, NOT the arranger...

Even if you end up using what the arranger spits out with nothing further done to it, YOU are the one that decided this was what suited the composition, and as long as you don't go all 'purist', and insist that everything HAS to always be straight arranger output, you can change, modify, rearrange, replace to your heart's content. It is STILL ALL YOU....

Don't let the machine get TOO much credit, now...

It is still a TOOL, not a 'partner'. It does what you tell it to. You have the final say!

And finally, when you say "Everyone tends to be nice when you play some of your tunes to friends...", well, don't play it to your friends! Play it to the most critical, knowledgeable person that will give you the time of day... That alone can save you days of work on a tune that needs work before you even START to sequence and record...

Sequencing is simply controlling keyboard playback from another device.



Nope. While MIDI sequencing is now how machine controlled keyboard playback is done it was not always that way. Analog sequencers were around long before MIDI was born. They were electronic devices that provided a step sequence interface. The early drum machines like the Roland TR606 and TR808 used a very similar step sequencing interface.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_sequencer has a long list of hardware sequencers over the years.




Sequencing is simply the triggering of a sequence of notes. How you go about creating that list of notes is really inconsequential. So either method you mention is is sequencing. They are just 2 different ways to approach it.

Gateway desktop with Q6600, (2)500gig HD's, 4gig mem running Reaper. Interface is Alesis I/O26 with (2) ADA8000's (16 ADATS)and one VM3100Pro (connected via SPDIF). This is backed up (and dual wired to) by an AKAI DPS24 connected to a second studio computer via Steinberg VLS2020 to run AKSYS and VST's via CONSOLE (this used to be my primary system before I migrated over to REAPER for the speed and convenience). I may upgrade the (ALESIS) interface to a firewire 800 capable sometime in the future.

BTW, sorry about pulling your leg in the previous post. Given your background and experience, I just hadn't expected this kind of question from you. But I understand a little better now.

chas

Chas..

No problem.... All is good .