Thank you, Bernie. Someone gets it...

There are plenty of minimum wage jobs I can happily do before I will actually lip-synch or play-synch for money.

Fortunately, somehow still they appear to be willing to pay to hear me actually PLAY, maybe I'll just have to leave it to someone younger, taller, and better looking to actually "play-synch' to MY playing, and just stay home and collect the royalties...

I suppose, all kidding aside, that it boils down to, as an entertainer, if you don't have EXACTLY what they ask for, is it better to lip-synch exactly what they want, or do you consider yourself a good enough entertainer or musician that, if you don't give them exactly what they ask for, what you DO give them will keep them happy and entertained...?

I'm sorry, but I feel that lip-synching is the last refuge of those that cannot entertain on their own merit. Someone asks me for a tune, and I don't know it, I guarantee I can play something else they WILL enjoy.... Or, God forbid, maybe I can't play anything they want. If the large majority of my audience is happy with what I do do (doo-doo! Get it?! ) why am I going to beat myself up about just one unhappy camper?

Definitely not enough to make me consider karaoke as an alternative Whatever happened to pride and self-esteem? Or is it just the check? I dunno.... but I hope that, although any of us could defend lip-synching out of, well, perhaps fairness or whatever , I can only hope that none of us actually WOULD go out and do one of those Disney pre-canned shows, with no input of our own at all...

Seriously, would any of us play a lip-synch show if offered it?

I sincerely hope not... [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/smile.gif[/img]

I think Diki's right about the Disney/acting thing. I think what the public will rebel against is lip-synching with the intent to deceive. Have we forgotten Milli-Vanilli; or how about the latest flap at the Beijing Olympics? Imagine having someone lip-synch for you 'cause you weren't 'good-looking' enough (I'd start worrying if I were you, Fran ).

chas

Interesting discussion, gang...

I want to remind everyone that this act isn't known for their "lip syncing" and it certainly doesn't promote itself that way. There was no communication with the official client at this venue that it would happen.

They were hired to perform "live".

Their "act" is a husband/wife duo who both sing over background tracks. She also runs sound and fires the tracks while he moves about the room working the crowd...

The client is feeling a bit deceived...



------------------
Bill in Dayton

I'm real curious about how you would answer this question? Don't be spontaneous with your answer, but really think about it. Imagine this in your mind until it seems real. Here goes:

Would you "lip-synch" as an entertainer in a Senior Care facility if you found yourself in a situation with no income and no savings and a wife and children to feed and someone said to you...."you could make money as a "lip-syncher" in a SCF doing a one hour show or you could make your money working in the salt mines for eight hours every day?"

What would be YOUR answer? ......and be REAL!

Lucky

Since the mid 70's the computer age has crept in and has ruined the Real Live Music scene in so many ways...be it lip sync, or just the fact that even most live bands uses so much extra fluff in the way of EFX on all their sound is a form of deceiving the audience versus a true acoustical act which is hard to find any more .....the more electronic enhancement gear that is produced the more the level of musical performance deceit will show its face time & time again!! bet on it my friends it will get worse!

It's quite simple, folks...

If you think that lip-synching is acceptable in a 'live' performance situation, go for it! But be prepared to make the most of what will inevitably be a VERY small window of profitability...

As soon as this becomes widely acceptable (which, thank God! is NOT the case, yet), you are no longer competing for your little jobs with other entertainers and singers in the area. You are competing with everybody and their uncle who can entertain a crowd, and lip-synch. Now, you might be saying to yourselves 'well, I'm a good entertainer, why should I worry?'...

Because, I guarantee, there are a hundred guys out there for every NH gig that could do at least as good a job as you, if only they didn't have to play or sing! And THEY all got mouths to feed and a powerful thirst, too Do you REALLY want to have all that extra competition for the gig? Way I hear it, it's hard enough to get the gig right now, and you are only competing against other musicians..!

Do you REALLY have any idea of how hard it will become when ANYONE with even a modicum of good looks (which are not necessarily any longer our strong points!) and a personality can come into YOUR gig, lip-synch the whole show, and everyone is perfectly OK with that?

No, gentlemen, your only chance of survival is to hound these scabs unto your last breath, and make everyone involved as aware as possible just how dishonest and cheap these performers (I use that term derogatorily!) really are. They are coming for YOUR gig, if you let them.

Don't let them... It's up to you, but think this one through, and you realize just how bad things could become if there is NO skill needed at all to get the gig. Sure, entertaining is a skill, also, but I assure you, there are FAR more entertainers out there that cannot sing or play well, who will be MORE than happy to take your gig if you let them

Diki-

I totally get where your coming from. I too, have strong feelings about the disrespect some entertainers show their audiences and clients.

On one hand, the Activity Director MUST be an advocate for their residents. However, if an act is well received by the residents, and the AD refuses to bring them back-they're going to have to explain why. Usually to a bean-counter at Corporate who wants to know why we're not providing the entertainment for the residents they want.
____________________________________
Corporate: Why aren't you using Joebob...your people love him...

AD: He's faking it...I want someone who can really honestly perform...

Corporate: Did you people complain?

AD: No

Corporate: Well, then...hire the guy...we're here to make these residents happy, not you or I or the local music critic, ok?
_______________________________

It happens all the time-but from experience, many AD's just don't want the hassle.

It's a slippery slope in the nursing homes...

------------------
Bill in Dayton



[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 08-17-2008).]

This is really an interesting thread, and I agree with much of what Diki has said. Ironically, during the past few weeks I was put into a position that put a somewhat different slant on this. A good friend and fellow musician/entertainer just underwent some serious heart surgery. He damned near died. Because of this his physical condition is such that he cannot lift anything heavier than five pounds for the next few months. He asked a friend, who is a Karaoke Jock, to cover for him at an Italian Restaurant while he recooperates. Just a week later the KJ suffered a severe attack of shingles, which is a very painful malady. The restaurant manager called me and said "The karaoke guy was OK, but these people want live music. Can you fill in for a couple months?" I was able to do three of four weeks per month for them, and the first night on the job I kept the dancefloor packed. (They have a special area for both dining and dancing.)

At the end of the night the owner came to me and asked if I would be available on a regular basis. I said I would be as long as my friend was unable to perform. However, upon his recovery I would relinquish the job to him. He called the next evening, asked how things went, and when I told him that everything went well he said "Well, you just might have this gig as long as you want it--I'm slowin' down."

The patrons DEFINITELY wanted live music--not KJ or DJ. I'm fairly confident they would have not been happy with someone that lip-synced either. I must confess, though, I used three MIDI files during the two-hour performance. I played over them, which I guess is OK, but the rest of the performance was straight from the PSR-3000 and my live vocals.

I sure wish I was young and good-looking again. Then I could really haul down some heavy paychecks.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

OMG! I'm so tired of anyone equating sequences with FAKING! (This is not directed at you, Bill) Arranger player/users seem to be anti sequence player/users - WHAT GIVES?

I play till my hands hurt, and I use sequences, live trax, NO trax, and arranger patterns. I VERY often turn on just the drum part and play my own bass lines.

I'm so sick of the notion that "how many" notes you play is some kind of judgment of your abilities...or how many chord substitutions you know, or how many tunes you know, what you read, blah, blah, blah ...

Sorry for the rant, but I get very emotional when people trash others for doing "less" when we all take advantages of the technology AS IT SUITS US.

That last phrase is the meaning for my craziness. We need to be more aware of teh individuality of each other. Do we fault an organist who plays bass pedals, or a guitarist with a midi guitar? How about a drummer that listens to a click track?
I'll get off the soap box now, and sit quietly, but please remember ONE THING ...

We ALL use technology. It provides us with tools to do our jobs better. We can be more productive and more creative if we utilize everything in our arsenal. Please don;t be petty about how others use the same technology. Arrangers are sequencers, in some fashion, and most of us that own these kb's are STILL keyboard players. It doesn't matter if you started on accordian, organ or piano - we still need more than just two hands and two feet to make it in today's advanced world of music technology.

Play from your heart, sing from your soul, and share your talents with humility - you'll please more people than you don't...and that's the definition of success.

Guys, it all boils down to how well you fit the particular situation. For most of the gigs that we (The synthzoners)do, it all boils down to how well we entertain the crowd we are presented with. In certain situations, some of us are drawing our own crowds, but in the others what counts is how well we are entertaining the people. No one is counting the number of notes you play, or measuring how high a key you are singing in, the common factor is how well they are entertained. We can debate here until the cows come out, and, in a way, that is the purpose of this forum, but, for those of us who make a living at this, the bottom line is how well our audience is entertained. One two, cha cha cha.

Joe

------------------
Songman55
Joe Ayala