A friend of mine owns a music store. Here's a report about Best Buy expanding :
Today, August 19, 2008 I went into the belly of the beast. I got information, oh boy did I get information, and I got pictures. There will be a minimu of 85 Best Buy music stores by Dec. 1. However, a very helpful asst. mgr. at the Aurora, IL Best Buy told me a few things of interest. Allison said that if the stores currently being opened continued to perform "this good" she has been told that 300 would be the Dec. 1 target number.

I will write an expanded review of my Best Buy "Music Store Within A Store" either today or tomorrow. The detailed information will be in the General Members Forum. For now I'll give you some highlights.

Best Buy is offering lessons. Either individual or group lessons. Group lessons will have no more than four (4) students in them. Individual lessons will be 30 minutes and cost $19.99 per lesson with a $10.00 discount on a package of (4) four prepaid lessons. Group lessons are for one hour and cost $10.00 each. Best Buy has a beautiful, glossy 3-fold brochure about their lesson program that they hand out to customers.

Here's the kicker....the Best Buy Music Lesson Program is "co-sponsored" by Fender. Each Best Buy store gets 12-16 free acoustic guitars to be used by their students. Also, the brochure explains that Best Buy's instructors are "professionally trained by Fender."

Below is a list of manufacturers that are being carried by Best Buy. When I say "being carried" I mean they have product on display and ready for sale. I'm told by Allison that they can special order and product made by any manufacturer they carry.

GUITARS
Martin
Epiphone
Gibson
Fender
Peavey
Washburn
Parker
Yamaha
Alvarez
Daisy Rock

AMPS
Fender
Peavey
Vox
Crate
Line 6
Marshall
Ampeg
Roland
Fishman
Daisy Rocks
(Allison says Ibanez is carried at the Minneapolis store and should eventually be available here)

DRUMS
DW
Yamaha
Pearl
Pacific (PDP)
Zildjian
Remo
LP
(Allison said Tama is carried at the Minneapolis store and should eventually be available here)

PRO PA
Furman
Tascam
Tapco
EV
Mackie
QSC
Behringer
Yamaha
Peavey
M-Audio

ACCESSORIES & FX PEDALS
Boss
Dunlop
Danelectro
MXR
Line 6
Hosa
On Stage Stands
D'Addario
Ernie Ball
Elixir
Monster Cable
Gibson

KEYBOARDS
Yamaha
Roland



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http://www.esnips.com/web/Songs

What? No Wersi? Darn.

chas

My experience with Best Buy has been pretty bad. They often run ads with fantastic price, then when you get there, they don't have the item, BUT, they have another model that is slightly higher in cost.
I just today tried to get a M2 memory card for my phone. They have a store near me, so I checked their website. They had it for $60. plus tax. Online the identical card was $23.00 and no tax. Saved myself a trip down the road.
DonM

What?! No Wersi?

You would have thought that any store that can get people to pony up ten grand for a Home Theater system ought to be perfect to sell those!

No Korg or Ketron, either...

Anybody want to bet they won't carry a keyboard over $1000? Low level PSR's, EXR's and the like, probably. Otherwise, the local Roland and Yamaha dealers will pitch a fit

But at least we have had several years of Guitar Center, to get us all used to the fact that the salesmen will be sallow pimpled slackers who know less about the products than their customers!

What's next? The Best Buy Pharmacy (for those headaches the sales-kids will give you)?

I miss the old-time music retailers. Sadly, many are dying off or just closing the doors.

Support Frank and George whenever you can, folks. they're both good guys who will appreciate the bueiness and stand behind their products.


Russ

PS. Try working a trade at Best Buy.

Try returning something at
"Worst Buy" YIKES!!!!
what a restocking scam. Buyer Beware!

Don,
Best Buy has been nailed many time for running their ads like that. It's the old "bait-n-switch". They advertise a false item, when you get there they say it's sold out, then direct you to the real item for sale (that's always supposed to be a great deal because it's only a few bucks more...sheesh). Circuit City has been nailed for this too.

Best Buy charges a 20% restocking fee on most high end electronics. That in itself would make me think twice before buying anything from them. I don't often return anything I buy but in the event I don't feel charging me 20% is necessary, especially if it goes back just as I received it.

I'm certain the bulk of the keyboards they'll carry will be low level PSR's and EXR's (as Diki mentioned), but they'll be forced to sell some higher end instruments in order to get the mid and low level lines. Yamaha is notorious for making dealers carry pretty much everything in their MI line, even if the dealer doesn't want it.

I'm sure if best buy wanted to carry Wersi that Wersi wouldn't even allow it. That would be dumbing down the brand by having unknowledgeable salesman attempt to sell a high end instrument. Even Guitar Center doesn't carry the Korg Oasys in most of its stores because they know the likelihood of anyone buying a $7K+ instrument is nearly non existent.

I'm certain Best Buy will sell tons of cheap keyboards, cheap guitars, and accessories. When it's cheap people just seem to buy it.

LOL. Try getting technical expertise on musical gear sold there Musical equipment should stay in the music stores - period.

True that...

Those pimpled slackers will be no more knowledgeable about PSR's and EXR's than they would be about Wersi's.

It pains me to be the odd man out, but I never had a problem with Best Buy about "restocking fees." Fact is, I recently purchased a computer monitor screen and had to return it 3 times. There were no questions asked, the transaction was done immediately, I was treated with respect and the clerk was quite courteous. I ended up NOT buying the screen so the final transaction was a refund with NO restocking fee.

In contrast, I bought the screen at Circuit City and had to beg them to allow me to return it "free of charge" if I didn't like what I bought. They'll work with you, but "what a struggle."

I'll stick to Best Buy.

Regards the "bait and switch," I used to do volunteer work for our state Consumer Office and am familiar with consumer law. In the Statutes (of most states, I assume) are consumer laws prohibiting that sort of behavior.

What I do is carry around a copy of all consumer laws (photo-statted from the Statute books) and when they try to pull their "bait & switch" or their "no rainchecks" (another violation) or selling you something that is "not fit for the purpose for which it was sold" I pull out my "Statutes" and they go deathly silent.

I haven't lost a case yet out there in the field. I should have said "mine-field" cause that's what it is these days. You need to be equipped when you go shopping no different than you would be if you were marching off to war!

Lucky

Now THERE'S an idea... I bet if you walked into Best Buy to return something with a grenade launcher and a belt-fed weapon under your arm, you'd have MUCH less problems getting a refund

They don't have to be knowledgeable... that's why Yamaha has the "demo" feature on all their PSR and home keyboards. If they didn't have the "demo" button think how many less arrangers they'd sell.

If they only had a couple of dealers in the whole USA, think how many fewer arrangers they would sell, too!

Bull. Any POS that has to rely on the DEMO-button on any arranger, should quit trying to sell arrangers right away. I will have no trouble at all to fire at least 10 "Is It Possible To...."-questions on the salesguy that he can not answer without having knowledge of the keyboards specific features.

I am a BestBuy Junkie! Although, I would never purchase a musical instrument through them.

In the state of CT Bestbuy MUST match the price at the store to the sale prices on the website. They have never tried a bait/switch on me. They normally will tell me if it is not in stock what day it will be in stock and what day their truck arrives with the item.

Also, most people do not know this. If you have a rewards zone card (its free bonus points based on purchases) there is no restocking fee on anything!

I only had issues returning one item. It was resolved quickly.

-Linda

I've been selling Home and Mobile Electronics for about 15 years. I have yet to go into a Best Buy or have a customer say that they were glad they went there.

The amount of expereince and knowledge is no where to be found, if you know what you want and the model, then yes go and buy it there, if you want some useful information to help you decide what's right for you, then your taking a very big chance.

the fact is BB can not and will not pay enough for highly qualified and knowledgable salespeople, usually people of that quality work as smaller mom and pop store where they can make that money or at least be appreciated until they move on.

dont fall for whole the hype, i have people who work at BB come into my store to purchase and have things installed because they dont trust the people there.

sorry but the BB thing gets under my skin

To be fair I don't go to Best Buy for the expertise I go for the price. By the time I walk in the door I know what I'm gonna buy and if they have it. I've done research, I don't "shop" just to "shop".

As for the bait and switch I knew a kid that worked there and when they sold the low price "sale" computers they always ask if you want the service plan if you say no they'd go check and guess what? they just sold the last one and that computer is not in stock.

I've had good luck with them but you have to accept them for what they are.
I have returned things no problem.
I even bought the service policy a couple of times because on a laptop the battery is covered and so far they have replaced two batteries and two computers when I got hit by lightning.

Alot of times I'll buy online with store pickup, so I don't have to deal with the salesmen....salesboys...saleskids

I'm afraid the old music store with a knowledgeable and friendly staff is rapidly becoming a thing of the past and we should support the ones we have left.

[This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 08-21-2008).]

Here's something else you have to consider (this for some can be a good thing). Sure we'll all have our opinion on retailers such as Best Buy carrying music gear, BUT please understand that although some of us may have reservations about the subject..., this move could be a serious blessing for some.

Many of us (myself included) do not have music stores anywhere within a reasonable drive that carry decent keyboards... We do however have Best Buy's all over the place.., and I got one within 20 minutes of my home. This would allow those potential buyers who could not test drive first..., to get their hands on a decent keyboard to demo. Most of us today have to buy our boards sight unseen as we have no choice. We either have to stick with a brand we've been loyal to for years, or take a chance at something new.

If my Best Buy starts carrying keyboards.., my butt will be there checking them out!

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 08-21-2008).]

So many people go to their local music store, if they have one, get a demo, ask questions, then go home and order online to save the sales tax and/or a few bucks.
If BB goes into the music gear business, you could do the opposite. Go there, spend an hour or so with the headphones checking things out, then go home and order from George or Frank!
DonM

What? You mean the GEEK SQUAD isn't knowledgeable about Keyboards etc, etc,?

No different then going into most Music stores now with all the so called minimum wage sales associates running around doing nothing hehehe .....no one knows anything about Keyboards & beyond or do they care. Thats if they even carry current models anyway....YOU are YOUR best salesman always! or find out first on SZ

We can't fault the young person (music enthusiast)..working at the GC's and other chain stores...The fault is with the Stores..for not giving the proper training..

This problem exist in all large retail stores...not just the music business..Go into a Lowes, or Home depot and try and get the right advice..it is impossible..The guy in plumbing sold curtain rods the week before...Training is a must..

This is why Mom and Pop stores rule...Most all.. know their business, and have a pride to give service too..

As for the Best Buy..selling instruments (on a larger scale than they have in the past)..I can see Best Buy closing a lot of stores rather than opening 300 new stores..The best way to go under is sell at a 15 point mark up..and spending 13 percent just to open the doors...

They will select models that won't be found in other Box stores (Sam's Club etc)...nothing totally new..same marketing concept...

Bargain hunters will buy there, many not knowing they can get just as good a deal from guys like George and Frank...and have a personal on hands advice to boot..

My experiences with BestBuy have been a mix over the last 10 years....When I shop there or any other place now..I tell them what I am willing to pay , and include the return policy..to meet my needs..9 out of 10 times..it is honored....There are too many places we can buy..for them to ignore our offer to purchase with return rights..

Service department has been excellent...to a total nightmare...

I will continue to deal with people I know personally..or have had great dealings in the past...

Also keep in mind that it's not by any means cheap for a small (mom-n-pop) music store to open up a keyboard department.., and many of these stores typically employ guitar/bass and drum players.

I cant agree with that totally....most there are not trainable unless you actually can play an arranger/synth properly at a semi to prof level to demonstrate these units.......besides they DON'T carry these new models to begin with so what is the sense??? The Internet as good as it is .....is as bad as it is IMO! It has improved many things in ,life but has really ruined many things we've become to know ....its a mess....& of course Money is the root of it all.

One good thing about the internet is these online retailers price matching their competition! They 99.99% of the time will match and beat the price. I'm about to score a Korg K61P midi controller from Zzounds.com for one hell of a price. MusiciansFriend had it at a closeout, Zzounds was listed more..., they sent me an email back and beat MusiciansFriend's price (and with free shipping).

The smaller stores cannot match these prices as often they're either at or under their dealer cost. Makes ya wonder if what we call the "WalMart Effect" will trickle down to these smaller music stores as stores such as Best Buy start expanding with music departments. Best Buy and other related stores themselves have suffered from the WalMart Effect already. Geeez, probably won't be too much longer before we see Wally-World carrying pro keyboards!

"Also keep in mind that it's not by any means cheap for a small (mom-n-pop) music store to open up a keyboard department..,"

I know 1st hand about this situation..

Yamaha's terrible IMO for mom and pop stores! Geez.., they come in basically to see if you're worthy of carrying their gear.., then tell YOU the store owner how and where they're supposed to go.., then there's the "minimal purchase" once you clear their Homeland Security Checks.

I know a few guys who own music stores that decided to have Yamaha stop by to discuss carrying their line of keyboards. Well, long story short.., neither of them decided to carry Yamaha keyboards, and were turned off to the whole thing at the start up costs it would take to get their keyboard departments going.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 08-21-2008).]

I guess I mnost be very fortunate. I've been dealing with the same music stores for many, many years and everyone working at them has always been extremely knowledgeable about the store's products--all of them.

Keep in mind that Best Buy has pretty much screwed up every business they ventured into. Look what they did to the Music CD business, the PC business, TV business, you name it and they're screwed a lot of small business people out of business, then got out of the business themselves.

I don't think that BB will be the arranger keyboard, guitar or for that matter, any retailing of musical instruments for very long. I think they'll loose their ass just the same as MARS did a decade ago.

Just my opinion,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

I honestly don't see them keeping these music departments too long either. How in the hell do they expect to push something like a Motif XS or Fantom G in their stores..?? Do they realize the skill a sales rep would need to demo one of these units? Same goes for some of the arrangers too. Seriously..., how are these kids going to be able to address questions customers may have.

It would make more senes if they were carrying some of the lower end arrangers, but these top end synths is just nuts!

Squeak,

I agree. And, imagine how much money they're gonna' loose when all those kids that frequent BB begin pounding on those keyboard keys and smashing the buttons. I saw this when I worked at BJs Wholesale Club many years ago. BJ's solved the problem by placing the keyboard and other music gear on the top shelves where the kids could not get at them. Additionall, then usually unplugged the power packs from the power strip, and sometimes unplugged the strip itself so they could not be turned on by anyone other than a store employee. This kept the big kids from pounding on the keys.

The same problem existed with guitars--every one of them that was accessible to the general public had broken strings, and some had soda dumped into them as a prank. Now you know why the independent stores hang their guitars up on racks behind the counter. You can see them, but in order to touch one you have to get assistance from a salesperson.

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

First of all, you can't blame stores for not training their pimply faced help. Sad to say, but as bad as the kids' knowledge of the latest technology is, I guarantee that the store manager knows even less! Or HE would be in the keyboard department, trying to sell the high dollar stuff

I've worked music retail from time to time, and no-one EVER trained me! It was my job to learn the stuff myself, from Elka organs in the seventies, to the debut of Ensoniq samplers in the mid eighties, to whatever is contemporary now. If anyone at the store DID know what they were talking about, they wouldn't have needed me!

One thing that disturbs me is this attitude, though:



This is EXACTLY why you get no service, and no knowledgeable help in brick and mortar stores... If you aren't willing to pay even a BIT extra for your gear at your local store, just exactly where is the money to hire qualified staff coming from..? Musician's Friend don't need to pay a penny for retail store space, they only have a handful of qualified 'experts' to cover sales for the entire country (not just your little town), and most of those are just as dumb as the locals, and you NEVER get to try anything before you buy it.

Unless, of course, you add to the problem by going to the brick and mortar store, waste THEIR time trying it out there and wasting their staff's time asking dumb questions (that you should have researched by downloading the manual first ), then buying online anyway..

Best Buy, and what it represents, is the logical conclusion of your desire to get something at the lowest price possible, and to hell with the consequences...

Music Stores need to open their own Geek Squad sections. Want to ask a stupid question? Need technical help with a purchase. Pay extra, suckers! If you want it as cheap as an online retailer, you should PAY for anything more than the online retailer would give you... Want to actually PLAY the instrument before you buy it? That will be a 25% demo (think 'restocking') fee if you don't buy it...

Don't laugh! It could happen. It might HAVE to happen if brick and mortar stores are expected to match online prices!

You can't bitch and moan at brick and mortar store's dropping standards if you are part of the cause of that problem, gentlemen. I have NEVER in my life tried something at a store and then bought it online. And I have NEVER tried to weasel a store down to online prices after I have had help with the product and taken the store's employees time up trying it.

Do otherwise at your own (eventual) cost, guys. The increasing number of 'buy to try' sad stories here at SZ are all the proof you need. Pay more, get more. Pay Less, get less...

It's that simple.

Diki why do you always have to take something so innocent and put a negative spin on it? What's so wrong with utilizing the online retailers in price matching? You don't like my shopping standards...., well so the hell what.

Maybe you're one of the lucky ones who can actually GO into a local store and find keyboards. The higher price you're paying at the mom and pop stores ain't got sh&%^ to do with "higher price equating to an experienced sale person on staff providing customer support". That higher price 99.99% of the time is because their "cost" per unit is much higher than an online retailer.

You'll have stores that are exceptions to that like George Kaye for example, but the majority of these smaller stores are staffed by guitar/bass and drum players (even if they're selling keyboards). Yes, it's sad these small stores are going out, but this isn't anything new.... That's just business and how it has been for years. Music stores today are just a very hard business to keep open today due to the internet, but it's not right to bust someone's chops just because they shop the net.

Diki, let me give you a good idea of the great prices in my area. When I had the Yamaha NP-30 and had to use the warranty repair due to a hardware defect.., I was able to take it to a local store for service. Mind you this local store was freakin 30 minutes away and damn near the border to Kentucky (I live in West Virginia). Anywho.., this is a piano store and they sell Yamaha keyboards too. As soon as you walked in the door there was the Yamaha YPG-620 for the VERY AFFORDABLE price of $1000.00! He was selling the Yamaha NP-30 for $500.00 ($499.., but close enough). You should have seen this guys prices. He has been in business for years.., didn't know sh*&$^ about the keyboards he was selling other than where the power button was and the demo button. His sales assistant was an 85 year old woman who never came out from behind the desk. Now you tell me..., that YPG for $1000.00.., how much of that do you think included customer support?

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 08-22-2008).]

I may be wrong but I don't envision Best Buy selling top of the line anything. I think it's gonna be a box store Just like Bj's and Costco. I got an email from Bj's and they have now added band instruments to the lineup. I think Suzuki and no choice, one trumpet one violin etc.
So after all the mom and pop stores go out of business go to BB and buy a 1000 dollar guitar then where do you go to get it set up? Maybe the geek squad for instruments, buy the instrument plus the service plan and for 29.95 we'll plug it in before you leave the store.
There's a good use for the Yamaha IDC BB will have the software to plug it in and do a factory diagnostic online...89.95

Best Buy already does sell top of the line keyboard instruments from what I understand. Motif XS, Roland Fantom G, Korg M3, you name it. The BB Music Stores I'm talking about are in the L.A. (California that is ) area. I expect them to migrate down here to the San Diego area fairly soon.

PS: You can bet they will also be selling totl Arrangers there as well. At least it makes a whole lot of sense for them to do so since Arrangers are fairly hot items to a large segment of keyboard players out there. Best Buy will probably circumnavigate planting their Music Stores i.e. "existing BB stores that will add musical instruments to them" anywhere near a Guitar Center in my opinion though because GC is a well known established outfit that also offers a "low price" guarantee.

Best,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 08-22-2008).]

Maybe it's an area thing, around here even guitar center doesn't carry much totl anything. and arrangers? If you wanna spend more that 400 dollars they have nothing and know nothing. I can see a bigger market like LA carrying the top shelf stuff.

I went in to GC once and asked about a Tyros and they said "why buy that crap when you can get a motif." They didn't know the difference between an arranger and a workstation except to them arrangers were toys 'cause all they've ever seen is the entry level ones.

[This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 08-22-2008).]

Musicians Friend Owned by GC
Music123 Owned by GC
Woodwind & Brass Owned by GC
There's probably a couple I missed...

If GC business falls off, where do Yamaha & Roland Go ? Answer: Best Buy ...

I am certain Best Buy is getting excellent terms.

Let's face it....With the closing of Mom & Pop stores all over the country and major chains such as Brook Mays - Woodwind & Brass going bankrupt(I am sure there are others I have missed), this move is all about survival for the music industry.

UPDATE .. Take a look http://www.musictrades.com/

Some of their prices are higher. They're selling the PSR-e413 for $70 more than all the other sites.

what's probably happening is that whoever "host" there inventory, is feeding "retail" vs ... map pricing