I know I am a keyboard junkie..

I love getting stuff upwards of 20 years..when it is pristine condition...

This seldom used one owner E-70 joins the ranks of the DX7..I bought a couple weeks ago....

You have to love the CK dealers...The fella bought this new in 1993..$3495..

The original invoice is with the manual..

Even the manual is still like new..

I loved my E-70. Gigged the hell out of one for years. :-)

The E-70 was a terrific instrument...I had one for quite some time, and also demoed it for Roland whilst working in Newfoundland.

My only issue with it was the style cards, although I did end up getting a Super Card which alleviated the problem a bit.

The E-86 was a better keyboard, having the floppy drive.

I also liked the fact the E-70 had "Revolving Bass", which allowed you to play inversions or slash chords....you could also do some style editing, although I think it was just a form of re-voicing.

Congratulations Fran.

Ian

Congrats Fran....I'll check it out next week

Ian, yes you are correct..the E-86 is better..It has the floppy, SMF player, 4 more polyphony, and 64 more user programs..It also has the advanced wave table (instruments).241 tones ..9 drum kits..

The E-70 has the assignable sound effects buttons (8)...missing on the E-86..
The E70 has 256 tones ..128 GS and 128 LA (MT32)....

The rest of the comparison are basically identical..

This is the first E-70, I have owned (I have played Uncle Dave's)..

I have owned 3, E-86's..

Both models have a great sound system(speakers)..especially loud via the stereo inputs (laptop..Zune ..another keyboard..}

Unfortunately, there is no input volume control as on the G70..

Fran when you get tired of that DX-7..., my Birthday is in October Just thought I'd throw that out there......

BTW: Friday nights are boring when I am not working... ..but this will be my last Friday off till next spring..

The E-86 is a better, more sophisticated board, I agree. But it didn't feel as much as a leap forward from the 70 as the 70 did from the 20 and 30.

The E-70 also had the Chord Sequencer...I believe the E-30 had it as well.

The E-70 was nice instrument, although the store demo unit did develop a random problem...sometimes when you changed chords, and had a sound in the LH, the accompaniment would change to the new chord, but the LH sound would remain on the old one...very irritating to say the least, and only solution was to shut off the instrument and turn it back on.

It was an early production model, so that might have been the reason.

It was sent back and we got another one that worked fine.

Roland used to make some great innovative instruments....the E-70 was one of them, for sure, although I think the E-20 started it all and raised the bar for arrangers.

I also thought the RA-95 arranger module was a real gem...used one on a CLP-300 Clavinova...nice combination....fit perfectly on the piano's flat top.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 08-30-2008).]

E-20 invented the class.

There was no such thing as a "pro" arranger prior to the E-20. Roland invented the whole concept. The self-accompanying keyboards from Yamaha and others at that time were laughably awful in comparison.

Every self-accompanying keyboard since owes something to the E-20.

Actually the first self-accompanying keybords were the pop organs.

I will now go duck & hide someplace. LOL

Great thread

Jerry

I agree,

Roland also held the edge for quite some time, but the introduction of Yamaha's mega and Super articulated voices had Roland and everyone else, for that matter, trying desperately to catch up.

They still haven't.

Perhaps the new G- series will let them gain some lost ground.

Ian

How can companies be trying to catch up when Yamaha isn't even ahead of the game? "SA" is just a bunch of glorified hype for a multi sampled sound. Multi samples have been around since the early days of high end samplers and most TOTL keyboards utilize them. My old Fairlight CMI III has sounds that make Yamaha's SA and Megavoices sound like poop. For that matter I've never heard any sampler have such an organic, raw, and full sound compared to the CMI III. Bring your PSR-S900 or Tyros over and we'll put it head to head with my antiquated Fairlight, you'll be amazed how anemic and unrealistic those Yamaha sounds are in comparison.

I seriously doubt Roland is desperately trying to catch up with Yamaha. One listen to Roland's top end keyboards clearly shows their sounds are competitive with nearly every other top end arranger or workstation made (with the exception of instruments like Wersi and Lionstracs that can support VST's). No embedded workstation or arranger can come close in sound to any workstation capable of utilizing VST's. Just listen to the Miroslav, Garritan, Kontakt, or Giga sound libraries and see how well your Yammy compares. It's not even in the running!

Always best to compare like with like, rather then what can be added to enhance the existing. Roland and Korg have plug-in expansion boards which take them to a new level, but you have to pay extra to get them.

Bill

Well Mr Ensnoreyou, Fairlight vs. Tyros? I think you are comparing apples to oranges.

Regarding Worsie and Lointracs...they are not much better sounding than a Casio (sorry Casio users) with mediocre stock sounds and incredibly boring styles....I've listened to the demos...they tell the whole story.

They are also vastly overpriced considering they need to be VST'd to sound anyways decent...Yammies (and Rolands and Korgs) sound great out of the box.

But, you can continue on your way and support the losers...the rest of us will stick with the winners, thank you very much.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 08-31-2008).]

I gotta agree with Ensnareyou. Although some of these mega voices, and SA voices are nice..., they are in no way anything NEW in terms of how they function. Sure the samples have gotten better that's used for them, but the velocity switching was being used well before we saw the fist Mega Voice hit the scene.

I think these new boards have nice stock sounds, but on the whole.., as he stated VST's are going to give you some much better sounds..., and they should too considering the size some of these things are. One VST he mentioned was Garritan.., Holy Crap do they have some nice stuff! Ian show me any keyboard on the market that can compete with the Garritan Stradivari... Show me ANY keyboard on the market that managed to "rent" the actual Stradivari Violin and sample that! Now I remember rumors years ago that Kenny G's sax was sampled for the Sweet S. Sax on Yammie's.., but that has never been confirmed.

Also Ian once again you show your true self by this comment:
--------------------------------------------
But, you can continue on your way and support the losers...the rest of us will stick with the winners, thank you very much.

Ian
--------------------------------------------

That's real grown of you man. Just because a board doesn't hold to your standards it's a loser? Lionstracs and Wersi may not be in every other house throughout the world, but last time I checked they had many supporters who didn't feel they are sticking with the "losers" Dom has done something that probably none to very few of us here could even dream of. We all bitch and moan about what we want on a keyboard....., how many of us actually had the balls and guts to just MAKE THE BLOODY THING. You may not like the Lionstracs, but in this extremely competitive market for keyboards.., Dom (whether you realize it or not) has gotten the attention of the big three. Can you say the same with your skills?????



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 08-31-2008).]

I got nothing to say ... I still have a Korg I5s in my studio!
Sometimes the old dinosaurs have a personal appeal .... my Korg sits on top of my Rhodes suitcase ( and secretly plays the sounds of the Roland JV1010 through it! )shhh.......

I keep this Korg for a backup, and a usable whurli/bass unit for livejams. Some things are dated, but the bass and Whurli sounds are right on target!

Fran ... I will never want either of your new toys ... as I know you would never want the Korg. Squeak - if you want a DX - call me ... my partner at school is dying to dump his .... it's useless for us.
215-284-1328

Thanks Squeak...nice to have you believing me instead of calling me a liar.

My opinion of Lointracs and Wersi is not an isolated one...there are many of us who are very skeptical of the product's validity as an arranger.

The on-line demos only go to show that we are right....decent demos would probably make us sit up and take notice...but, as they stand, they really don't do much in showcasing these instruments.

Regarding my skills...I really don't see what they have to do with the poor showing of Wersi and Lointracs.

Perhaps they should hire you to do some adequate demos as Ensnoreyou and Dom are incapable of providing them?

Ian

I have no inention of calling you a liar..., I just think that's pretty rude of you to label the other (not so well know makers) as losers. It's insulting to those who support them and own them. Ian..., you know that you would get just as offended if someone called your beloved Yamaha a loser....

You and I DO agree on something though. There are NO good online Demos of these models out there. However, just because the online demos aren't up to par with the big three doesn't mean the units are bad... Any great keyboard can sound like complete sh*%& if the person who has done the demo lacks skill. I'd love to throw some demos together for Dom.... Sadly I think the closest MS to me is Fran's and that's an 8 hour drive! Not sure if Richard is closer though.

Ian,

If you are going to use a blanket statement that everyone else is trying to catch up with Yamaha then there is nothing wrong with me comparing the Tyros sounds to my 1980's Fairlight III. I'll guarantee you one thing, Yamaha won't come out the "winner" in that challenge, not by a country mile. Looks like Yamaha hasn't even caught up with Fairlight and Yammie's had nearly 30 years to do so.

Once again you are making statements about Wersi without having ever seen or played one. Wersi DOES NOT require any VST's to have sounds that compete or rival other arranger keyboards and workstations. Wersi's factory OAS sounds are nearly 1 GB and sound fantastic. How much ROM do your beloved S900 and TOTL Tyros 2 use? I've owned many Casio's (loved the CZ series), but by no means are the Casio's remotely close in sound to the Wersi.

If you'd start making comments based upon actual use then you might have some credibility. I can say that I've owned the 9000 Pro and used the Tyros 1, Tyros 2, PSR1500, PSR2000, PSR3000, PSR-S900, and many other low end Yamaha arrangers and can base their sounds against my Wersi from first hand knowledge? Can you say that you've played the Wersi first hand and can compare it accordingly?

Roland, Korg, Ketron, Technics, and even some of the Yamaha arrangers have some very nice stock sounds but I wouldn't agree that they all sound great out of the box. Just because Yamaha puts twenty or so SA voices in their TOTL arranger does not mean every sound on the Yammie is great.

I do commend Yamaha for adding new SA voices on the Tyros 3 but if they really wanted to they could start utilizing more ROM and making nearly every sound a SA voice rather than give the user 20-30 SA sounds and 800 mediocre sounds. On the Wersi I have hundreds of fantastic sounds and should I require more, its as simple as loading a sample or utilizing a VST. These options AREN'T required to make the Wersi sound great, they just put the Wersi in a category only a few other keyboards (Mediastation, Open Labs) can even claim to compete in. Yamaha would not be one of those companies.



[This message has been edited by Ensnareyou (edited 08-31-2008).]

There must be a SZ forum member who lives close enough to me that they could come and use the Wersi in person. I'm about an hour from San Francisco and San Jose, about the same from Sacramento.

I know Scott Yee doesn't live far from me, he owns a Tyros 2, and many of the SZ members take his reviews at face value and give his reviews merit. Perhaps Scott or another nearby SZ member can play the Wersi first hand, then give the SZ community a review of how Wersi's sounds compare to Yamaha's TOTL arranger. Maybe then Ian and Diki will stop making assumptions and will take another SZ members review and give it some merit?

[This message has been edited by Ensnareyou (edited 08-31-2008).]

[This message has been edited by Ensnareyou (edited 08-31-2008).]

Any manufacturer who would expect us to be interested in a product on which they themselves are incapable of producing decent demos, is not working towards being a winner.

I am far from being alone in this opinion, if you've been reading other member's posts regarding these units.

I certainly don't mean to be rude...perhaps I could call them "unsuccessful people" instead of "losers"...would that be more polite?

Ian

If Wersi and Lointracs were putting decent demos on-line, then they might have some credibility.

From the demos we have heard, I can't imagine too many players being inspired to seek out the actual instrument.

If the developers can't make them sound good, what hope would there be for the average user?

Yamaha, Korg and Roland seem to have been able to produce excellent demos...when will we hear the same from Wersi and Lointracs?

All we've been hearing so far is mediocre demos and a bunch of lame excuses.

Ian

Amazing. Fran was only telling us about his new purchase...

Really, I am "forum-active" on many keyboard-related websites, and there is no forum that comes even close to the level of negative attitude that dominates the messages here.

I always had the impression that SynthZone was populated by mostly "older" keyboard users, both professional and amateurs. Well if that's true, you're a bunch of grumpy negative old farts, let me tell you that.

I've seen enough of it. As a joke, I posted the line "My Keyboard Is Better Than Your Keyboard Anyway" in the special "bash-topic". But I now realize that that exact line is a motto for a lot of active forum users on SZ.

Don't worry, I don't expect anyone to give a rats ass about me leaving the forum. That's not why I'm posting this. It may however be something to think about.

The rightout negative atmosphere in this forum may very well be the reason why this forum is bleeding to death, with just the handful of same old grumpy guys posting every topic in the "General Arranger Board". Nigel may want to rename that board "Grumpy's Hangout - Enter At Own Risk", subtitled: "Whatever You Do, Don't Mention The Brand Of Your Board." The rest of the forums can be cleared out and deleted. Nobody cares to post messages about the different brands in the brand-specific boards anyway.

But then again, you wouldn't have the "fun" of fighting over "The Best Brand" if you stuck to a board where you would only meet people who own the same brand as you do, would you?

Take care all, and get your blood pressure checked regularly.

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- THE DUTCH KEYBOARD FORUM http://www.keyboardforum.nl

[This message has been edited by Burkels (edited 08-31-2008).]

Hey Bart...you are taking to much to heart..Sure there are a couple "other" people here that annoy us..but we have their number..and don't let it bother us...


As for most of us ..we know...Roland Rules!!!!!!!!

See you later..I have to hit the road too...only to my shore gig...be back tomorrow...