For those of you who'd like to know what the new Tyros 3 is all about: One of the visitors to my forum posted that he found that all manuals for the Tyros 3 are available for download at the Yamaha website.
http://www.yamaha.co.jp/manual/english/result.php?div_code=&model=Tyros+3&cat_code=

------------------
- THE DUTCH KEYBOARD FORUM
http://www.keyboardforum.nl

Unbelievably lame.

Just went through everything. There are 4 new SA2 voices (with variations to make 11), and a smattering of other new sounds; hardly enough to justify spending $3-4G though. That would make it more expensive than some of the best sampled VSTi collections out there.

I'm extremely upset that the USER Rom has remained at 3.2MB (compared with Korg's 20MB). This is extremely insufficient, and using the HD is slow... too bad. And Style File ROM size remains at 120kb - which stifles some of the creative ideas I had planned...

The T3 is much less than I would have expected even from an incremental upgrade...

So sad

My prediction is that most of us who upgraded from T1 to T2, will not upgrade to the T3.

[This message has been edited by chony (edited 09-01-2008).]

Chony: I'm with you. Looked over the new docs. Missed opportunites abound. New clarinets are nice, but no new piano, bass, or drums which are real weaknesses on the T2. Sliders? Big deal and not real helpful when not automated to match settings. I don't get why they did that. I don't see a compelling reason to upgrade from a T2 other than it's shiny and new.

I'm sure the new things will sound nice but it's just not enough new to justify an upgrade.

They do have new pianos and some new drums. I'm not holding my hopes up for them though based on the demos we've heard so far...

Double post.. sorry.

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 09-01-2008).]

I just went over everything also. I noticed the Style size limit hasn't changed and it's amazing in this day and age of "cheap" costing Flash RAM that Yamaha decided to keep the paltry 3.2 MB of internal RAM for the T3. My Tyros 1 had 3."3" MB of internal memory so in reality Yamaha is taking a micro step backwards on the T3 as far as the internal memory goes. My Roland Fantom G7 has "50" MB of internal flash RAM memory by comparison.

Yamaha is giving the T3 "11" more SA voices plus 11 of the new SA2. 50 more Styles is at least something plus more Organ Flutes and Mega Voices too over the T2 if I'm not mistaken. I suppose in the end the most important thing will be the improvement in sound quality. If the T3 is just a slight improvement in sound quality on basically half or so of the total amount sounds on the T3 then probably you'll get a few T2 owners who will upgrade to the T3. OTOH, if the overall sound improvement is quite substantial in nearly every category, then you'll probably see a substantial amount of T2 owners upgrade to the T3. But if the Drums turn out to be just incrementally better than the T2's then that will be a show stopper for many T2 owners on getting a T3 in my opinion.

When looking through the Manual I really couldn't see a lot of improvements or added features that the T2 doesn't already have. There are a few more buttons and those 9 short throw sliders though.

OTOH, if Yamaha did indeed make a Tyros 3 version with 76 keys Yamaha would have made out like a bandit in my opinion. Not only would they have sold a lot of the 61 key T3's but the real buzz and excitement would have been over the 76 key T3 which Yamaha would have sold a boat load if you ask me. Plus there would be even more buzz surrounding the T3 release if there was a 76 key T3 in the mix plus Yamaha would have sold more of the 61 key too because of the greater public awareness if Yamaha did indeed release a 76 key T3 along with the 61 key.

Best,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 09-01-2008).]

No Mp3 player,no Spdif out and HD screen ??

Impuls

Here is a quick comparison list T3 vs T2:

SA2 voices: 11 vs 0
Sa voices: 53 vs 42
Mega voices: 23 vs 18
Sweet voices: 26 vs 23
Cool voices: 58 vs 39
Live voices: 70 vs 58
Live drums: 12 vs 9
Total: 232 vs 189
Total voices:749 vs 504
Styles: 450 vs 400

Eric

What do you expect for $4,000? As if Yamaha was going to give you the features you actually wanted and lots of new sounds too. Nope, not a chance! For die hard Yamaha fans owning the newest Yamaha arranger will make them very happy. For others like me who expect a lot of bang for our buck and professional features, we'll pass on the Tyros 3.

I just wanted to add that if money is really not an object it may be wise to go ahead and sell your T2 and try to get a good price for it. That way, you would probably recoup at least half the purchase price for a new T3. Along with it you get a brand new keyboard that has a 1 year factory warranty (For what it's worth Korg gives you two years) and you would also have all the new stuff that the T3 brings to the table like USB 2.0, better sounds (theoretically), more Styles, more Multipads, more Organ Flutes, etc., etc.

If you're completely happy with your T2 then it makes sense that you would want to hold on to it though.

Best,
Mike

After reading the owners manual I will keep my T2 and wait for the new Roland TOTL Arranger. Some new sounds and styles is not enough. The demos didn't impress me either.

Niels

A few more details. http://www.yamahapkowner.com/?p=596#more-596

Bill

LOL! How many more details can there be than what's in the manual, the reference guide, the midi-implementation chart and the complete data sheet containing all voices, effects, etc etc?


------------------
- THE DUTCH KEYBOARD FORUM
http://www.keyboardforum.nl

Does everyone remember the amazing excitement before the T2 release? I don't see a hint of it now.

Eric:
Firstly a lot of the instruments you list are doubles. Eg: 4 of the 11 new SA2s are just variations of one clarinet. Also, if you would have listed comparisons of the T1 to T2 as well, you would see that the T2 was a much bigger upgrade than the T3.

I don't see myself buying on either. I was looking at the style list and no updated latin. looks like the same merengue, cumbia & bachata. one of each only, I was hoping for 2 of each style. Oh well guess I'm sticking with my s900.

Doesn't seem like it's worth the money to upgrade IMO. For the price..., I expected a hell of a lot more to be honest. You guys remember the same issue came up with the release of the PSR-2100. Not many felt that was worth the upgrade either.

Not to pile on, but I really really liked my Tyros...I really love my T2, but I'm not really tempted whatsoever to buy a T3...

For all the reasons listed above, it hasn't grabbed me...



------------------
Bill in Dayton

I figured I'd chime in before Ian and say that the Tyros 3 is simply perfect. From the specifications in the user manual its evident Yamaha has perfected the TOTL arranger, perfect sounds, perfect styles, perfect features, I'm left with wanting nothing more. Yeah right!

All kidding aside... from the Tyros 3 manual and specifications it doesn't look very promising on paper. Perhaps in person the Tyros 3 will blow me away with some phenomenal sound quality like nothing I've ever heard before. I'm not going to count on that but I'll hold any final conclusions until I play the Tyros 3 in person.

Wow! I find I'm saying the same things to myself when the Tyros and Tyros2 came out. "Is it really that much better than my PSR-3000, and will I sound better if I upgrade." After skimming through the manual, I, personally, do not see anything that will make me want to rush out and purchase a pair of them. (I always buy 2 so I'll have an identical backup.)

However, before making any snap judgements I will spend a few hours at my local GC when they become available, going through all the Tyros2 features, and listening carefully to the keyboard itself. I've done this with every keyboard I've purchased, which I sincerely believe is the only way to determine if an upgrade is warrented. If it really sounds great, well, you just never know.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

The T2 was different.

It came with 42 new SA voices (and SA was an exciting breakthrough idea then), it came with a HD recorder, it came with sampling. All of these things were new and exciting ideas for the Tyros 1 owners.

I don't see any new and exciting ideas for the T3 that will seduce T2ers. I'd love the new clarinet, piano and perhaps the drums if they are any good. But not paying $3-4G for three instrument improvements.

As someone previously mentioned..Roland and Korg add features as OS upgrades....Yamaha depends on purchasing new hardware...


Look at it as a $4,000 software upgrade...

Yes Fran I think that is the only way anyone could look at it.

I have a feeling this will be a watershed moment for the other 3 (K,K+R) as it will give them a REAL show at eating into the Yammie market. And then, of course, who knows how it will go from there (Chaos Theory!!)

Big mistake by Yamaha not to step up to the plate with this one, in my view, the timing was perfect to really sit the other manufacturers back on their heels, instead they have GIVEN this chance to others by releasing a Tyros model 2.25!

Lets hope the others come through.

I reckon people will now either make the jump to a Korg or wait for the new Roland.

Dennis

Well there's your OS update T2 owners. Mighty expensive upgrade though IMO... Too bad Yammies OS upgrade is a "hardware" upgrade at the cost of about four grand (maybe half that if you got a mint T2 to sell for the trade up..., but it's still gonna cost ya two grand for the update). Yamaha could learn a thing or two from Korg and Roland in the OS update game.

Wait until the latest OS update comes out for the Korg PA's...., then compare what that does for current PA owners (at no cost to them) and then look at Yammie's (extremely expensive) upgrade for current Tyros owners...

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 09-01-2008).]

LOL!

I propose that from now on we call the new Tyros, Tyros 2.25!!

Where is Ian ...when we need him...

Good buy for first time Tyros buyers..but not Tyros or Tyros2 owners to move up at all.

I wasn't expecting a major upgrade, and had mentioned this many times in my earlier posts, so I'm not at all disappointed.

The new additions are exactly what many of us were guessing...I knew there would be no MP3 player, because it was meant to be a player's instrument.

So far I am quite happy with the upgrades, but I'll reserve my final judgement until I get my demo instrument and spend some time exploring it.

Ian

The reason you are "not at all disappointed" Ian, is because you will not be paying for your demo model. If you were paying $4G for your T3, I promise you you would be disappointed.

Details in plain English that you can understand.

Sorry Chony...I don't agree.

Having said that...I didn't buy the T1 or T2 either...I preferred the PSR-2k/3k/S900 which are more to my liking, having built in speakers, and more within my playing budget...like Gary Diamond, and Beakybird, I usually buy 'em two at a time, and two Tyros are a bit much for me.

I don't need a TOTL arranger for my needs...if I did, I would be using the T-series and budgeting accordingly.

You may or may not agree with Yamaha's marketing strategy but selling arrangers and making a profit is the bottom line of each of the big three manufacturers...no profit...no company...Technics and a few others have learned this the hard way, and Wersi and Lointracs seem to be headed in that direction, too...let's hope Roland and Korg wake up and catch up before it's too late for them.

Ian

Ian..., what are you smoking man! It's Yamaha who needs to wake up...... Korg's arranger sales for the PA are quite good and one of their HUGE selling points is in the OS upgrades. Both Korg and Roland have figured out HOW TO MAKE A PROFIT and still give amazing OS updates. It's Yamaha who we clearly see is GREEDY. If they gave a damn about their customers satisfaction in the pro arranger market you wouldn't have a $4,000 OS update. It's Yamaha who needs a lesson from Korg and Roland. As far as Lionstracs fate. Since when are you in the position to predict Dom's future? Many of us question the style quality of the MS's, but neither Yamaha, Korg , or Roland's arrangers can compete with the MS's open system. The MS needs help on the styles, but as far as the rest of her.., it has the upper hand on all 3 major makers (closed system arrangers)

I'm in the position to state my own opinion...something that is allowed on the forum, the last time I checked.

You don't have to agree...that's what makes this place so interesting...diversity of opinion.

Ian

It's funny how you seem to always be able to predict Yammies financial future and regardless of what they do.., in your opinion it's always good, but you can predict the future of a keyboard company you know absolutely nothing about

Why would you say that?

Lointracs is clearly a second rate company...they can't even put up a decent demo.

Yamaha Roland and Korg seem to be able to do this repeatedly....but poor old Lointracs can't even muster one.

Coffee is on Squeak...care to wake up and have a sniff?

Ian

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not see any changes to the MUSIC FINDER??

Also, no changes to connections other than USB 2.0 is now available. No XLR Mic Jack.

The Tyros 3 still seems firmly targeted solely for Home use.

------------------
Al Giordano
Visit us at ARRANGER WORLD! http://www.arrangerworld.com

Korg Pa2xpro, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums, Roland TD-12 Vdrums, Roland SPD-S.

Like I said before Ian. Dom has done something that very few could do. He put out his own keyboard. Kindly point me in the direction of any ground breaking keyboards that are the result of your great wisdom...

You have to be a fool to think that Dom hasn't caught the attention of the big boys. Dom's a very small company and he has already made a very nice footprint for himself-can you say this Ian..??

Tell me something.., when was the last time you had the chance to sit down and talk with the CEO of Yamaha? Has the CEO actually shown up at your front door (last time I checked Dom has done this). He may be a smaller company, but he can offer a level of customer service and support none of the big three can. Hell.., didn't one of our own members drive his freakin corvette! Think the CEO of Yamaha would let you do that

Bottom line is this Ian.. Dom may not have the money of the big three, but what he has done with the money available to him is amazing. Sure.., we're all waiting for some better demos and I'm confident that Dom will deliver on them, but you're making all these assumptions about the mans company calling him second rate, blah, blah, blah, and you know NOTHING about him or his company. Have you ever spoken to Dom? Lionstracs wouldn't still be in business today if Dom didn't know what he was doing. Again, how many of us here can say we designed and sell a keyboard to compete with the big three? Dom's a very nice guy too--very intelligent as well. I've spoken to him quite a few times (email, private chat), ect. Perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to trash his product Ian.... Then again.., anything that doesn't say Yamaha is 3rd class trash to you. Even with that nightmare 9000 Pro Yammie put out..., I'm willing to bet that even then with all the upset customers you'd still be singing praise to Yamaha.

Ian,

Matsushita owns Technics and the sales of arranger keyboards for Matsushita was such a small portion of their business I don't think it even mattered much to them if they ever sold a keyboard or not. Technics arrangers actually sold fairly well, had a good following, and were quite technologically advanced. I suspect with the MI division being so small in comparison to Matsushita's other companies, it was probably just easier for them to stop making keyboards since the niche for arrangers in general is very small. Even Yamaha's arranger sales make up but a tiny fraction of their MI sales and barely register a blip in overall Yamaha company sales.

I'm not really sure why you are making it seem like Wersi and Lionstracs are in jeopardy? Wersi's been around for a long, long time and their sales may be smaller than Yamaha's but their sales figures certainly aren't weak. Wersi's products are far more technologically advanced than anything Yamaha makes and Wersi is continually updating their products to always stay two steps ahead of everyone else. So far nobody, not even Yamaha, has caught up with Wersi when it comes to making an advanced arranger/workstation.

Lionstracs may be a newer company to the arranger world but Domenic has been around a long time manufacturing components for OEM applications. I doubt Domenic is worried about Mediastation sales as he seems to have a fair share of customers across the water. Lionstracs has also drawn great interest from the big three (Yamaha included) and it wouldn't surprise me if Lionstracs and one of the big three partnered up. Don't be shocked if you see a Mediastation marketed under the Yamaha name in a few years because it's entirely possible.

Just because a company is smaller doesn't mean its products aren't as good if not better than the competition. Sequential Circuits was a fine example of a small company with great products but they just didn't have the money to continually develop and manufacture new products. Yamaha bought Sequential in the late 1980's and it was reported they'd release many of the Sequential products branded under the Yamaha name. In the end Yamaha opted instead to use Sequentials technology, sell some of the technology to Korg, cheapen it, then market it in various low level synthesizers rather than continue manufacturing high end synths. Much like Yamaha does now with their arranger keyboards.

You also elude that Roland and Korg may be in trouble if they don't "wake up and catch up". Unless you live under a rock Roland and Korg have a huge share of the MI and arranger market in the USA and abroad. Korg has made some of the most successful music workstations/arrangers and Roland some of the most successful synthesizers ever produced. Roland was at the forefront of arranger technology and had it not been for Roland, your beloved Tyros 3 would likely have never been a reality. I seriously doubt either are quaking in their boots merely because Yamaha has come out with the Tyros 3. The Tyros 3 is far from a technological marvel and Korg and Roland already manufacture arranger keyboards with better sounds, more features, better build quality, and a lower price than the Tyros 3. Imagine if Korg utilized software from the PA2X Pro and merged it within the Oasys. That would be a mega arranger that would easily rival any Yamaha offering to date.

I'm also curious as to why you wouldn't immediately pony up the cash for a Tyros 3 being you feel it is "Perfect" and it wouldn't be that expensive for you. Since you're a demo guy for Yamaha you're allowed an accommodation price on their keyboards which means you can buy them at 50% off retail (even less if its a B or C stock unit). With all that dough you saved buying the S900 you should make the leap and go get a Tyros 3. After all, it is the best arranger ever made with the perfect layout, perfect styles, and perfect sounds. What more could anyone else want?


[This message has been edited by Ensnareyou (edited 09-02-2008).]

I've made just as many groundbreaking keyboards as you have...that's why my opinion is every bit as valid as yours.

You have to be a fool to think that Dom has caught the attention of the big three.

Squeak, there is not much point debating with me...unless you are a good loser.

Ian

Ian.., how you manage to get yourself and your head through any doorway is a puzzle to me

Exactly....put in your order...the queue will be long.

I like the S900 for it's portability and bang for the buck...guys with lots of loot, like yourself, can afford the very best...so buy the Tyros3.

Ian

I just make sure that you go in ahead of me...that way, I know I'm safe.

I'd just like to know ahead of time before you get there so I can sit by the door that won't be considered a "fire-hazzard".... What's it like going to the movies

And IF Roland does that, we complain that they should have made the OS perfect in the first place

Oh wait, I was gone here.


------------------
- THE DUTCH KEYBOARD FORUM
http://www.keyboardforum.nl

Burkels..., so OS upgrades are just for fixing bugs huh? Yamaha's OS upgrades don't add any real useful features to the OS.. You want that.., well you have to buy the next model. Korg and Roland fix bugs with OS updates, but they also add useful features. Show me a point in Yamaha's Tyros history where they took a top end feature on the Tyros and gave it to the semi-pro model as an OS upgrade? S-900 owners got the SA voices, but that wasn't free now was it?

I can't wait until Korg releases this next OS update. I can't wait for someone to compare what Korg did with an OS update that didn't require PA owners to upgrade their keyboard to the next model.

Why would I take a major step backwards and buy a Tyros 3? I believe in moving forward with technology, not backwards. I'll stick with the Wersi until something much better comes along.

Ian,

You're a fool if you think the big three haven't taken notice of both Lionstracs and Wersi. You may want to speak with the powers higher up at Yamaha because I guarantee you they know who Domenic is.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!! But you're not going to get YamaIan to see that.

I hope Dominec is a strong willed person...otherwise Yamaha may try to just 'buy' him???

It happens.....
Lee

That's right..., happens everyday! It's not even uncommon for keyboard makers to throw an offer to eachother.

Hell..., Microsoft wouldn't be what it is today if it weren't for this practice. I just think it's mighty arrogant of Ian to assume Dom's financial future.., yet he really doesn't know the first thing about the MS or the company.

You missed my sarcasm.

------------------
- THE DUTCH KEYBOARD FORUM
http://www.keyboardforum.nl

Sorry... my bad

Hey guys..sometime you are reaally funny, for taht I like you there!
thanks anyway to support me and my project.

ianmcnl...yamaha and the all others know me really well..don't worry.

Also, yamaha was the first one to try to buy my mediastation, here one part of the email, of course I can not shown the true name and email address:

I am xxxxx from YAMAHA Japan.I would like to ask you we can buy MEDIASTATION(X-76) in the market?(Europe,US or Japan?) So far we haven't seen it in Japan and U.S.
It would be appreciated if you could let me know how we can buy one.
xxxxxx YAMAHA
xxxxxxxxx@gmx.yamaha.com

Some of my friends there saw the whole email..is not a joke.

With another BIG company that we know well, we was really close for make a join venture, BUT the big boss oversea do not like the idea right now, to mix some company name...is all suspended for now..

Another big one was interesting in license my keyboards too, all was nice working but after we arrival at the money point..how to pay my hardware for the production...there no money...

sayd that, they still continue looking at me, like or not, but still I'm the pioneer of the keyboards OS features, hardware and technology.
at this moment, we really don't have to learn nothing from the big brands, just look what we can develope under linux and you can easy understand.

in about 5 years, we have developed some MS models, all new generation hardware and the all OS from scratch, instead the others recycle from 30 years the same soup.

One simple example is our double audio-midi players developed 5 years ago...just now someone start to make some similar..but never at the MS level...video too.

Linuxsampler GIGA, is another example...if we get about 300.000 downloads, it mean that is working nice.

Qranger is the new big step on the arranger engine and is in continue grown up.

MS now is the first keyboard worldwide to manage multiple ASIO instance and VST plugins, all controlled by the MS panel..

For who also think that I survive only with the MS keyboards..they are totally wrong!

We just get a Quantum corporation client, IF our embedded VGA cards work fine for some new products..you have understand...

Just look at my webstore how many different clients we have for our embedded hardware.

New entry now are the Pro audio expansion boards, up to 40 audio IN and 40 audio out.

Guys...we are on 2008...PC technology is the future and not the close system embedded keyboards...

If you still happy for a couple of new sounds, 1cm sliders, 3.8Mb ram for styles.....then enjoy what you play

cheers guys

Dom's 100% right! It's no joke...

Ian,

There is no question that its just a matter of time until all pro arranger keyboards work like Lionstracs.

Unfortunately, there's also no question that Lionstracs current business model is hopeless.

I would like to see Lionstracs succeed because compared to them Yamaha, Korg and Roland together are not even child's play.

Yamaha should take a lesson from me. I am probably one of the most loyal customers they've ever had. My first keyboard was a PSR 510, then PSR 8000, 9000, Tyros 1, Tyros 2 ... and now ... I just purchased a Korg Pa2x. I was planning to exchange it for the T3 if it met my expectations, but now I've realized that overall the Pa2x is the better keyboard...

But even the Korg has major limitations. If Don can get his act together in the marketing department (which doesn't seem like it will happen in the next ten years), and make normal web demos and send out some floor models, I will be his first customer.

And Yamaha would be very wise to buy him out. It's just a matter of time - I'll put my money on it.

In Dom's defense on the marketing issue. Keep in mind that it's no secret that arranger keyboards dominate the European market.., and the US/Canada sales for arrangers (especially the high end ones don't even compare to the European sales).

Dom is a small company..., his sales are higher in the European market. Give it time, and I think we'll be seeing more MS's here in the USA/Canada. However, that costs money, gotta find retailers for them and so on. Give it time. I do agree that some top quality demos are needed, and I think once that's done the opinions will start to change a bit.

chony..
the reason that I wil not post new demos are that:
A) I sold the ALL MS available here, the prototype too, with the OLD 24Mb analog mixer board, that I have then to replace.
B) I have here working ONLY 2 mediastation, one MS X-76 PRO, where we develope the OS with the all souce code, I can not use for make demos. One MS x-76 expanded for testing the new ISO OS, just to be sure that the OS is full working.

C)Untill I get the all new hardware production for the X-61 and X-76, I will not pressing for sell nothing or then I continue get request when..when..when...we still have a lot of backorders to delivery.

D) untill I'm ready with the new production, we will continue develope new features and features..coming soon also the new HV vocalist 6 voice, based on linuxsampler engine...someone there just saw the shoots.

When I have the mS ready again, we will post totally new demos, with the ASIO support and Audio-midi styles.

I have patience...my clients have too.
How have the MS, they know that sounds good, then we work also for the totally new styles, don't worry.
cheers

Hey Don! Send me one and I'll write you a great review!

In 15 years that I make this job ( before with the Megafloppy driver, for Roland G-800 too, serach in google: megafloppy) I NEVER fraud one of my clients!
this time is the same, I can NOT shipping you one EMPTY MS package..

Just wait..you will reserve some special from me, don't worry.

Chony.., I said the same thing to Dom Send me a MediaStation. I'll throw up demos left and right

Not arrogant, Squeak...realistic.

No matter how promising the product, or how clever the manufacturer, poor marketing practises and mediocre demos don't lend much credence to it's success.

Coffee is still on...care for a sniff?

Ian

Naaaa.., keep your coffee. I fear a cup of coffee coming from you..., at first might be seen as a nice gesture, but if I want cream and sugar.., well hell that upgrade might cost me just a bit more than I'm willing to pay.... Seeing is how you're on the same wave as Yammie.

Dom's right by the way. Keyboards are all heading in the direction of the MS.., like it or not, that's where it's going.

yep..relistic...
No matter how the T3 promising or how many T3 they will sell..is still the same soup warmed up from many years.

No matter if the Ferrari is not confortable and drink like crazy, but is still the Ferrari is a FERRARI with full of bugs too and they don't need to advertising nothing!

You can now turn OFF your Coffee, because here we can never drink a black water like you have there, we drink a true Italian Capuccino.
What to try to sniff the difference?

HA HA HA HA!

Look here how SMALL company have to teach you there HOW to develope software..this is only one simple example: http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=dna_interview

Pity only that in your new TOTL T3 you are not able to running one of this features..

You guys have Melodyne on the MS?! That is sick.

[This message has been edited by chony (edited 09-02-2008).]

yes of course, from many months was working, but pity only under ASIO Host...
But who matter care? We can open unlimited ASIO host too... http://www.lionstracs.com/store/information_pages.php?info_id=24

Personally, I'm not a coffee drinker...it was for Squeak....not you...you guys drink concoctions I don't even want to guess what goes into it...motor oil that leaks from the Ferrari, maybe?

Keep your Ferrari...I love my Honda...the Japanese really know how to make technology work.

Dom would be very lucky to have some big Japanese company buy him out...that way his product might have a chance....either that, or start putting up some decent demos and rethink the marketing strategy...both are inadequate.

I wish him all the best of luck no matter what he chooses to do.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 09-02-2008).]

Dom doesn't need someone to buy him out Ian.... Once again..., your complete lack of knowledge of Dom's company shows here. If one of the big three bought him out.., it would be because they that the MS could be REAL COMPETITION down the line. Oh.., and I'm sure Yammie and others is waiting to see Dom's 61 key version coming out.

It's funny Ian.., you completely dump on the MS due primarily to styles, but completely ignore the other REAL features the MS has that neither Yamaha, Korg, nor Roland have right now... Korg's only contender is their Oasis, but sh*$& we've all seen the price on one of those puppies.

Right..you have understand the point..
MS X-61 List price 2400 Euro= 3600 USD....MAP price?...

I know as much about it as you do, Squeak.

Of course, maybe you had hands on experience with the MS, and haven't told anyone?

Or did you just listen to the mediocre demos like I did?

In my opinion, great demos talk...bullpucky walks.

Ian

Squeak and Ian, can you two either give it a rest or get a room?

You are both mucking up every single thread in this here forum.

Trust me I know more of the MS than you do.. If I had an MS you'd see demos from me all the time. I will agree with you that there needs to be more demos. Sadly those who own them here aren't posting what these things can do..., and until some of the owners here take a more active role in showing what their MS's can do.., there will always be nay sayers.

Ok...maybe we can try to look the MS in a different view...
Realistic and statistic....
What are right now the TOTL arranger keyboards possible to sell well worldwide?
Yamaha T2, S900, then the new T3, then?
Roland G-70, some E serie and?
Korg PA800, PAX...then?
Ketron SD5...then?
Casio?
Gem?
Wersi?
Lionstracs?

Statistic, about the only 1-2% of the all available keyboards are arranger, all the remain keyboards are synths and small workstation.
This is also why Roland seem not continue develope the new TOTL arranger, because the field is so small.
Exclude also the MS...because we dont have good styles demos....

Now remain about the 90/98% of this keyboards that are only synth and workstations....
The MS X-61 for a list price of 2400 Euro=3600 USD, can really simple cover this all field, because with the integrated support of ASIO, VST and Qranger Audio-midi Multitrack full API integrated on the MS panel...can kill this all Synths keyboards!

Read the old post about the Oasys...who told that only the Native Instruments Massive and one more VST can full compete with the all Oasys sounds? ( not my words...read it)
In the MS now we can install the full NI package Komplete Synth and MUCH MUCH more.
Oasys 16 tracks SEQ can NEVER compete with the unlimited audio -midi tracks of Qranger, plus the support of the chords change and Elastique Audio. Do not forget the GIGA straming system..

I think now you can understand where I will arrive...is not the 1% of the arranger field that is interesting me, BUT the whole area.

Buy one keyboard and install the all sounds that you like and not just some couple of sounds...
You MUST to be free to install in your keyboards the all sounds, media, RAM, CPU..., how and when you want, without dependence of the manufacture.
4000 USD hardware upgrade...how many VST and ASIO host originally you can buy??

The MS must looking like a nice and complete musical PC, you go buy in the store and then at home you make the all what you want.
The PC must fast working with a stable OS The manufacture of this PC must give the full support that the basic OS system is working.

there is totally different, you buy the keyboard and then you continue stress the manufacture to add new features, RAM, Sampler, USB 2.0....this is totally ridicolus..there you have only to waiting a new hardware upgrade...
think the difference and enjoy what you play.

He started it

So you've played it?

If you haven't, then all you have to go on is the same lackluster demos that I have, and read the specs and posts, which I have as well.

So what it is it?

Coffee is still on.

Ian the Curious.

Yawwwwnnnnn.... Forget it Ian.., any conversation that doesn't have Yamaha sitting on top is pointless to you... So with that.., keep your coffee I got my own. Peace...

So you probably haven't played it...I figured.

Enjoy your coffee...I'm gonna make a nice cuppa tea.

Peace to you too.

Ian

Domenic I Love the MS OPEN concept...& the build quality is wonderful as I have played with Fran's MS a few times..lighten the weight to around 30-35lbs total & make the styles equivalent too play & sound EQUAL to what's out there now.....plus it has to be EASY TO Navigate IN REAL TIME for me to consider it. I wish you luck,I'll have my eye open on your progress....& the new MS 61 key version also....any pictures/demos of it yet?.



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 09-02-2008).]

749 Voices, 35 Drum/SFX Kits and 480 XG and 256 GM2 Voices including brand new Super Articulation 2 Technology
450 exceptionally high-quality Styles including the new MegaVoices
Eight slider, one assignable slider and articulation switches
Adoption of Two-Track Hard Disk Recorder and large-capacity Hard Disk Drive
Convenient Multi Pad Sync function, Registration and OTS Setting

I wonder if the new T3 can handle more than 80GB for the internal Hard Drive. It doesn't specify the size limit in the Manual that I could see. The T1 had a 40GB size limit whilst the T2 had an 80GB limit if I'm not mistaken. With the T3 now having USB 2.0 with its ability to import audio files a lot faster and also the ability to create audio files with the Hard Disk Recorder on the T3 up to 80 minutes in length for one song, a larger capacity Hard Drive would be recommmended and optimal to use with it. You know, like maybe up to 300GB-500GB?? If it could that would be one more good reason to get a T3 "IF" it had 76 keys of course.

Best,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 09-03-2008).]

I would think..Yamaha is using Sata drives now, and are not limited by the drive size......but I am sure Yamaha still has restrictions on folder size(recognition)..

Highly unlikely, Fran, IMO. Computer technology takes MUCH longer to trickle down to arranger users. Remember using CF Cards on the G70? After SD had basically taken over? Or SCSI long after EIDE became the norm? And where is Firewire? The universally used connection is next to impossible to find on a hardware arranger.

By the time the Big3 gear up to use an interface, it's time is long gone! Heck, arrangers with samplers (and even WS's with samplers) are loading up samples into RAM at speeds that were surpassed in computers well over a decade ago (even my K2500 beats most modern WS's!). They use off the shelf componentry for data I/O, and those are getting harder and harder to find new ones, as most make the switch to complete computer control of I/O

What is puzzling to me is that some one would want a large hard drive on the T3.
There is no MP3 player on the T3, no real sampler, no streaming of samples from HD, and no multi track audio recording.

Thousands of midi, style and registration data can easily hold on some type of memory card or USB thumb drive.

Really, only the new Ketron, Korg Pa 2x pro are arrangers from the big 4 that can make meaningful use of a hard drive because they have audio players and have data that can and may be needed to have a hard drive.

Actually, its the Yamaha which needs a bigger HD, because its audio files can only be in WAV which is approximately 10 times larger than mp3s.

But what can you do with those wave files on the Yamaha? You can record and play them back but isn't an MP3 player and recorder like what the Korg has more efficient? I seriously doubt that a standard T3 user is going to use more than 16 GB of space for instant play back. For wave storage they would most likely transfer to a computer.

True. Yamaha screwed up here again. I thought it was obvious the T3 would include an mp3 player. As for me, I take an ipod to ever job though I do have a few albums backed up onto my keyboard as well...

What can I say, I think Yamaha really, really, lost it. The T2 added so much to the T1 (sampling, HD recorder, 42 SA sounds, and more), but what does the T3 add to the T2?

11 More SAV plus 11 SA2 (although in some cases derivatives of the same instrument), more Mega Voices, More Live! voices, More Cool! voices, more Sweet! voices, USB 2.0, 8 sliders with one assignable making 9 total (can also be used as drawbars for the Organ Flutes), and the two new dedicated Assignable Buttons. I'm sure there are others but I'd have to investigate further.

BTW, the Tyros3 can NOT use SATA hard drives. PATA ONLY! Parallel ATA can handle a quite large capacity in a 2.5" Drive such as 100GB-250GB, etc.

Best,
Mike

Also double the WAV ROM. >> Compressed WAV ROM though. Just like the T2/T1 wav rom is/was.

Best,
Mike

Why the issue with .wav's? At least Yamaha provide a large enough HD that using .wav's shouldn't be a problem, and you can swap out for a larger one, I would imagine.

Here you are, with presumably the best arranger on the planet (at least, that's what the fanboys will have you believe!), and you want to play crappy, lossy MP3's on it instead of nice pristine CD quality .wav files?

You can't bitch about compressed ROM waveforms on the one hand, and turn around and go 'What?! No MP3's?' on the other hand...

You can always convert your commercial karaoke tracks into .wav files, if that's what has got you all so worried.. Bet you wish you'd bought them on CD, now, instead of downloading them off of Limewire....

For me, the issue is not the format, but what can you do with that format when it is on the keyboard. From my understanding, the T3 does not have advance play controls like markers, time strech, tempo synch, key transpose.. You can probably only include a wave file in a playlist on the T3. So to me, wave files on the T3 is realy only usefull for gimmics.
P.S I have a Genesys so I know about the ability to play wave files with out a good player.

Absolutely... Markers, tempo and pitch change abilities should be included, or you might as well use an iPod.

It's all part of the effort to 'dumb down' arrangers over the years. Once upon a time, these things were designed for PLAYERS. All the features were designed to make playing them easier. But now, it seems like the features are put in to make PRETENDING you are playing them easier.

Mind you, without at least transpose, how are you supposed to be able to sing with a karaoke backing if you can't change pitch? That's a basic feature from even the cheapest karaoke players... And just as easily achieved on a .wav file as an MP3 (usually higher quality, too).

... and compare that to what the T2 added to the T1, and you'll understand why everyone is complaining... The only significant thing added in my opinion are the 22 SA voices, and even that is only half of what the T2 added to the T1.

No Chony...not everyone.

According to the e-mails I've been getting, plus what's on the other forums, there are many who are very interested in this product...and this is before even playing it, which you have not done either.

Much of the many I heard from are T2 owners, with a smattering of T1 and S900/3K users as well...plus two E-series players...one an E-80.

Personally, I was pleased with the upgrades from the T2...you, obviously, are not...but to say "everyone"...naaaah...that's just too much of an assumption, IMO.

All the best,

Ian

Put it this way then. The power users among us (those of us who use a number of keyboards, sequencers, and design our own beats and sounds), think that the T3 is severely lacking in features compared to other boards.

You ask how I can bash the T3 without having used it; but how can you worship it without having used it either?

Look, I don't know if I'm going to buy it or not. I currently own so much equipment including keyboards by all the major brands, and even a small update might be worth my while if it even slightly enhances my performance. But that doesn't make it a good upgrade. Compared to what the T2 added to the T1, the T3 is a total cop out.