Organ Special w/ new Drum Kit

Not sure this has been posted already. So what do y'all think??

My personal opinion is the Drum kit used sounded a 'little' better than the T2 drum sounds but I sure wouldn't call the T3 drums "thrilling" or anything. Although, that was only one kit so maybe there's still hope that a majority of other drum kits will sound better.

The Organs seemed to have pretty good realism with the Rotor Organ having a better overall sound than my former T1 had. >> Which is only to be expected, since Yamaha is now on version 3 of it's high-end money maker. In other words, there BETTER be some sound realism improvements, right?

OTOH, the Drums still don't do it for me. But I will withhold a final determination until I can play one in person.

Best,
Mike

The rotary effect isn't bad at all, but the organ sounds themselves are pretty average.

The drums remain disappointingly week.

Nothing about this keyboard is getting me excited, I'm afraid.

Maybe I'm a moron, but it sounds fantastic to me. This has been available for at least a week.

Beakybird

I'm especially impressed with the organ sound...beefier, with an excellent rotary effect...more Hammond-ish than ever.

I'll pass on the drums till I get my demo instrument, but they do sound better.

Ian

They won't. Yamaha has never managed to get "convincing" drums in any of their keyboards. If you think Yamaha's drums sound like "the real thing", you never heard drums in real life.

I know. I am a drummer. I know what they should sound like. And they're NOT in Yamaha's keyboards.

If your not happy with the demo.....& if you bought a T3....then I'm sure you can go in and TWEAK the sounds to your liking if you know how.....why is it always a put down before a unit is on the market....
factory setups aren't always or every ones preference....this is where being a musician comes in & you have to do your homework so you'll be happy with the keyboard. Then again the BEST keyboard on earth is no substitute for talent which many times I read between the lines and'notice that some people think the latest & greatest will change that? Not a good way of thinking.

I play drums too...but, unlike you, I will wait till I hear the Yammie in person before I pass any judgement.

I already like the T2's drums...very tight and CD like quality is my preference...may not be yours, but it is Yamaha's way and seems to please most, if not all, users.

Don't like Yamaha drums...buy a Roland or Korg...simple.

Ian

The realism of a 'real' Drum set is the true and ultimate benchmark we're after Ian. I'm glad to see Yamaha has apparently further improved the drum kits on the T3. I say apparently because I'll have to wait and demo a T3 and a T2 side by side to get a better comparison. OR, Yammie could put up some better Drum Kit demos online to help demonstrate and accentuate the T3 drums better, so the improvement(s) could be heard betwixt the two in a clearer way and would make it easier for a person to decipher the results without having to necessarily demo a T2 & T3 side by side.

For a comparison of Drum kits, listen to some Motif ES/XS drum kit demos and then go back and listen to the T3 demo(s). You will notice right away (at least my ears tells me) that the T3 drums lack the depth and realism of the Motif series by a big margin. Other Workstations on the market today also have noticeably better drum kits than what I am hearing from these Yamaha T3 demos.

Those with discriminating preferences who know what a real Drum Kit should sound like (not that you don't Ian but I'm just using as an illustration), we just want Yamaha (and the others) to give us AT LEAST what we currently find on the Workstations but of course preferrably even better and ultimately to have that "REAL LIVE REALISTIC SOUNDING REAL DRUM SOUND OF A REAL DRUM SET" at our fingertips. We've quite a ways to go before we reach that pinnacle but since Yamaha is touting the T3 as a "digital Workstation" couldn't they provide at least the same quality Drum Kits as are found on the Motif series of Workstations? You're paying more for less when you buy a T3 i.e. the T3 costs quite a bit more than a comparable Motif ES/XS, but the Drums still don't seem to be up to snuff on the T3..

Yamaha has put 600MB of WAV ROM on the T3 while the Motif XS only has 355MB. Yet the Motif XS far outshines the T3 in the Drum Kit arena. It's almost like a double standard with Yamaha in that their traditional workstations get the goods with the gravy, whilst the arranger division gets the cold paltry leftovers for some reason. Except when it comes to the SAV/2, Mega Voices, and some of the Cool!, Live!, and Sweet!, voices. But the Drums??? Uh.... I don't think so.

Best,
Mike

PS: I'm sure the T3 drums will be JUST FINE for a good percentage of those who purchase the T3. OTOH, audiophile purists will most likely hear the T3 drums and avoid it unfortunately. And they end up looking elsewhere in the arranger arena for something that suits them better - at least as far as their preference for Drum Kit sounds go anyway, in my opinion.

We all have our own preferences, Mike...that's what makes it all so interesting.

Ian

Real or so called "REAL" if that could ever be playing arranger KB drums I think they are all CLOSE enough to sustain enjoyment from any audience.......after all who is using them for a National or Worldwide act anyway? Sounds are great but drums suck....or Drums are great & Sounds stink....when does it end?....

Ian,

From your previous posts how is it you've determined Yamaha is the "best" and yet you've never played a Wersi or Lionstracs in person? It's laughable that you reserve judgment for the Tyros 3 to hear it in person yet you don't use that same mentality when it comes to concluding other brands besides Yamaha are "losers".

I also have to wonder what "CD like quality" is supposed to mean regarding Yamaha arranger drum sounds. Sure the Tyros drums are free from noise and are "short" samples if that's what you call tight. Are Yamaha's arranger drum sounds realistic and do they sound like a drummer drumming? No way. Even my vintage Forat F9000 and F16 have superior drum sounds and they're not even 16 bit.

Yamaha Custom Series drum sets sound phenomenal in the studio and I've recorded many a Custom Series drum set and loved the tone and sound. The Tyros drums sound absolutely nothing like that. You'd think Yamaha could at least sample a reasonable facsimile of the their Custom Series drum set but so far that seems unattainable for them on their arrangers. If they can offer better drum sounds on their professional workstations then why do they put such lackluster drums in their arrangers?

From Ensnaryou :
" yet you've never played a Wersi or Lionstracs "
I am still waiting for a demo showing the Wersi drums and sounds as well.
Chico




[This message has been edited by ChicoBrasil (edited 09-08-2008).]

Yamaha is "the best" for my needs, and it may or may not meet yours.

I will be able to try a T3...can't say the same for Wersi or Lointracs...so the on-line demos will have to suffice.

The demos are no where near the quality of those put up by the Big Three...why?

I've heard nothing but excuses about these demos...losers make excuses, in my opinion, and until I hear something at least as good as the demos by Yamaha, Roland and Korg, I will continue to voice my opinion based on what I've heard.

Korg arrangers aren't sold in my area, but their demos make me want to try them out in person...can't say the same for Wersi or Lointracs...I wouldn't waste my time.

Ian

The drums on the last Wersi demo I listened to on here would have shamed my 1988 Roland E-20.

Wersi have done nothing remotely exciting in drums since the CX-1.

I thought Yamaha would really use the "Super Articulation" feature on the drums. For example, to adjust mic pick-up between drums, or snare fuzz using the mod wheels or buttons...

I thought they would definitely do it. It just made so much sense after what they've already done with their SA sounds to make them realistic...

Very sad...

I could be wrong , but wont Yamaha be offering SA2 voices on the internet to download in the future ?

So if anything is lacking , as far as SA Drums , maybe down the road they will make them available.

Ian , Is this correct ?

Later

Gary 

Well sports fans, if you don't like the drum sounds, you can always tune them until they sound the way you think they should sound. It's not neurosurgery, but you will have to take the instruction manual out of the zip-loc bag, open it up, then read the section on tuning styles. You can make those drums as hot or soft as you like--it's easy.

As for real, live drums, the ones where the guy sitting on the drum throne is slamming those sticks as hard as he can on everything within reach--NAH, I don't want any part of that in my performances ever again. Been there, done that, got the Tee-shirt, and hat and lost some of my hearing in the process.

As earlier stated, I'll reserve my judgment on the T3 when I get to play one. Anything else is akin to judging a book by it's cover--it can't be done!

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

This makes more sense than anything else I've read. WTG, Gary.

Can't answer your question at this time, Gary...we are all waiting for hands on and more info.

Ian

quote:Originally posted by travlin'easy:

"Well sports fans, if you don't like the drum sounds, you can always tune them until they sound the way you think they should sound. It's not neurosurgery, but you will have to take the instruction manual out of the zip-loc bag, open it up, then read the section on tuning styles. You can make those drums as hot or soft as you like--it's easy."

>> The question is not making them as hot or soft as you want, it's making the "preset" Drum Kits as "realistic sounding as possible" to a real Drum Set Gary. When your starting point is one of excellence i.e. great sounding preset Drum Kits (which is Yamaha's obligation by the way) tweaking them is then only a matter of one's preference, instead of having lousy presets to begin with and spending hours trying to improve them by tweaking the snot out of them. And which in most cases will still never be to an acceptable level because what you had to work with was sub-par to begin with.

"As for real, live drums, the ones where the guy sitting on the drum throne is slamming those sticks as hard as he can on everything within reach--NAH, I don't want any part of that in my performances ever again. Been there, done that, got the Tee-shirt, and hat and lost some of my hearing in the process."

>> Banging the Drums as loud as you can in no way translates into the quality of the Drum sounds themselves Gary. C'mon Gar, be real now. What does banging the Drums loudly have ANYTHING to do with quality. We're trying to stress "quality" of sound here not someone banging the keys or turning the volume way up okay?

"As earlier stated, I'll reserve my judgment on the T3 when I get to play one. Anything else is akin to judging a book by it's cover--it can't be done!"

>> True, one shouldn't judge a book 'only' by its cover. But that is not the case we're up against regarding the T3 because we have actually already "heard" sound bytes from the T3 Drum Kits which in reality 'already' "reveals" something of the T3's true nature and substance regarding the quality of the T3 Drum kits. Which is akin to reading material 'inside' the cover of a book and not just observing the cover of that book from a distance or from what you've heard second hand or in print. In other words, judging a book by its cover - would be like Yamaha listing the specs of the T3 and saying it has all new Drum Kits but never posting anything to demonstrate or prove it. But of course they HAVE posted demos of the "all new" Drum Kits which essentially negates the "I don't want to judge a book by its cover" analogy. You're hearing professionally produced demos by Yamaha demonstrating the "all new" Drum Kits with your own ears Gary. You have much more than just a cover to make at least a subjective determination in my opinion. Even if they are in .mp3 format. What I hear from the T3 demos is 'very' similar in sound to the T2 and immediately conveys to me the basic nature of how they will sound in person. I would like to hear the T3 in person of course, to make a 'final' determinatation of the quality. But from what Yamaha has already posted I really seriously doubt they will sound remarkably better in person than what has already been posted in these demos.

To the true professional who wants true professional results in his or her sounds, it seems to me that the T3 will once again disappoint and not pass muster in their eyes, at least regarding the Drums anyway. As I've already stated though, the majority of prospective T3 owners (who mostly tend to be European home hobbyists who play for their own personal pleasure) the T3 drums will most likely suffice them, plus also others who have less discriminating sound ideals as well. But to gigging musicians playing before discriminating audiences who know the difference between what sounds real, and what sounds artificial or fake; I think you will find most, if not all of them, searching for greener pastures and bypassing the T3 altogether, in my opinion. Besides, the 61 key limitation thingy.

Best,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 09-09-2008).]

I read the manual so I can answer it. No you will not be able to download SA or SA2 instruments in the future for the T3.

Well there you have it. You can't judge keyboard-drums, since you've never played with a real drummer before. Your description is ridiculous.

Ah, the old Wersi argument. "Sorry we sell it sounding crap, maybe you can make it better?" I don't buy it. Those drums should be knocking us flat on our back right out of the box, especially after all the hype this 'board has had.

Thanks Chony...my lazyitus got the better of me.

The Tyros3 will load samples, nevertheless...very handy...Scott Yee posted a link to some cool ones on another thread...they are for the T2, but I imagine they'll work fine in the T3.

Those great T3 demos are a good indication that Yamaha has another winner...but, it's probably best to reserve full judgement until we get to play it.

Yamaha is such a tease.

Ian

Well put, Gary.

The thing to remember, is Yamaha has it's own sound...and, judging by the great number of dedicated users, it is a well liked sound.

Not for everybody...that's why Roland and Korg have their dedicated following, and well they should...they make fine sounding instruments.

It's nice to have choices...it's nice to have differences.

It's nice to own a Yamaha.

Ian

Chony- you got Mail

John

O.T.
Anyone please tell me why I like this music so much? As long as I can remember myself, I actually ADORED this music style, those organ sounds... I wasn't exposed to this music through parents or anything (never had this music in Greece) but as soon as I heard something like that on the radio, I was feeling good.

Anyway, time for my pills
lol

To date.., I can't understand why Yamaha doesn't include higher quality drum samples on their high end arrangers. Another member brought up a good point when comparing the current Tyros2's drums to the Motif XS. The difference is NIGHT AND DAY.

It's simple as this guys..., The DRUMS AND BASS 99.99% are the foundation of a good style. You could have a mega voice, sweet, cool, live, or even SA voice done perfectly on the other tracks, but if the DRUMS and the bass are lacking..., then the style is weaker. Even if the drums patterns are done well..., they won't sound all that great with weak samples.

There's NO reason why Yamaha can't include the quality of the MotifXS's drum kits on the Tyros. Tyros owners should be PISSED..., and you guys really should. Yamaha takes all of the great Sweet, Cool, Live, Mega, and SA voices from the arranger line..., adds those to their TOP SYNTH (but changes a few names), but they WILL NOT GO THE OTHER DIRECTION. That's messed up!

Personally I think Roland's drums really get the job done. The problem with Yamaha is they don't have near the level of velocity switching on their kits as you find on a Roland. (I know this as I've tested them side by side) Hell my Roland RS-70 (circa. 2003) has so many drum samples with amazing layers in the drums.., and ghost notes too. Not only is the velocity switching amazing on a Roland, but some of the nuances they include are unreal.. Such as snare buzz! Even the ghost notes have a velocity switch to them...

Maybe Yamaha will finally add better MOTIF quality drums to the Tyros3.. I doubt it, but you can always hope I guess.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 09-09-2008).]