And one for Uncle Ian, too....pleeeease?

I completely agree... it IS more than just an arranger. But it is also LESS.

Kudos to the other side of things... of COURSE it is far beyond modern arrangers, stuff they don't have, and probably never will. BUT.... as a straight ahead arranger, supposed to sound great OOTB, great styles and sounds, inspiring grooves, well, there it doesn't quite match up, IMO. Little in the way of inspiration is supplied. You have to go out, find it, buy it and install it, and develop styles for it all by yourself.

Best of luck....

I guess I'm just another lazy American, but I like the instrument to inspire ME, and then, when I've got the time, I'll develop my own stuff too. Not HAVE to develop it all yourself, or you are going to have a sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach. From the complete lack of any plethora of user MS demos of quality, let's just say I have a feeling that not many of YOU are really getting into custom sound and style development, either.

Or, at least, eager to let anyone hear the results of your efforts. Curious...

Style creation on an arranger KB from scratch is one of if not the most NEVER used or understood features........here lies where manufacturers should be developing on board ways to make this process more easier & efficient for the user vs how difficult it is at present we all know they have the ability just look at any workstation like Fantom, Motif etc......this would really shake up the arranger world & possibly people would keep their KB's instead of jumping to the latest & greatest looking for new styles year after year....but then companies wouldn't sell as many & that is where their heads are at $$$$$.........not the player.

Don't think for one minute Tyros 4 isn't already in the works for release in two years or so.....the Tyros Line cash cow wheels are turning.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 09-11-2008).]

Donny..., I agree in that the style creator (at least for making styles from scratch.., isn't used very much). Everyone is different to as style recording to one may be easy and to the other it may be harder. I will say this though..., one of the MAJOR things that I've noticed that keeps people from creating original styles is having to record the drum parts. Lets face it.., not everyone is a drummer.., and playing keyboard drums for some is extremely hard. There's just something about inputing the drum parts in ONE piece at a time that for some really just ends up in a dull and lifeless drum track..., then add to that having to create the drum fills...

Personally I think that today's arrangers have a very intuitive way of creating styles.. IMO it's not really the limitations of the board or difficulty in the OS, but I so often finds it's user limitations that hold them back. Again.., from what I've seen over the years.., when it comes to having to record those drums many have trouble in this area.

Of course this is why arrangers are SOOOO popular too... You get all those great pre-recorded drum tracks with good fills, intro, ect.

I will give a suggestion to some though. Often you can completey spice up a preset style by making changes to the drums only... You can actually with very little work go in and add more dynamics to the drum parts manually and make the style pop more. That's what I used to do with my older PSR's... I'd go into an existing style.., then I'd make changes in the drum sections. If the drums are dull and lack dynamics all you have to do is delete a few of the notes (snare for example..., and manually play that part adding more emphasis say on the second hit).., you can also delete a note here and there in the hi-hats and replace those with more expressive hits. You'd be amazed at how a style can completey pop when you make minute changes to the drum track to bring more life to it. Doing this is much easier than recording the entire drum track manually.

Squeak.....creating drums aside...they should make it easier to just cut/copy/paste all parts including Into/Ending/Multipads/ etc, by just DRAGING the parts in place ....so that you can easily MIX & MATCH any parts together & save them into a style to play instantly, this alone would be a very POWERFUL feature in arranger KB style creation.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 09-11-2008).]

Quote Dnj:...creating drums aside...they should make it easier to just cut/copy/paste all parts including Into/Ending/Multipads/ etc, by just DRAGING the parts in place ....so that you can easily MIX & MATCH any parts together & save them into a style to play instantly, this alone would be a very POWERFUL feature in arranger KB style creation.

This has always been very easy to do on the last few of the Technics top-of-range boards - certainly on the KN6500 / KN7000.
Gave me a bit of a shock when I found that the boards I have to choose from now, are so far behind and I am going to be stepping backwards as I move on to a different marque.
At todays prices (all other electronic equipment has got better and much cheaper over the last few years), ALL top of range boards should be far better than they actually are. Is this because they no longer have to compete with Technics?
Tony, Sheffield UK

Tony through the years many GREAT features on older arranger KB's have been lost or omitted from the latest & greatest new models....& many features included now are little used or needed or make sense for that matter......no one knows what was behind the decisions to do this ....for example why even Technics KB's are gone also...?.....all we can do is pick & choose FOR YOUR NEEDS & stop listening to what anyone says here.....look at YOUR needs & buy accordingly for your own personal playing happiness.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 09-11-2008).]

OH MY!......... I started off with the first post in this thread (which was suppose to be about the new T3 sound demos by the way) , and I kept reading post after post and reading and = ...descending in to the low level abyss of mire and clay and "brimstone" and when I got near the end of this slowing descending diatribe I felt "drained" emotionally and strangely, less than human in many ways. Gee, I wonder why that could be??

To be frank, I feel Ian has a propensity to go on the "attack" when he feels Yamaha is threatened in some way and it's more than just your average respectful disagreement it's many times more of a "bitter" and scarcastic 'attack' on the person and which, in my opinion, crosses the line between a healthy debate and/or a "respectfully" heated exchange of words into one of "ad hominem", done spitefully with vengeful sarcasm as its intention.

I don't quite understand why some people have to stoop so low as to degrade the conversations we discuss into one of personal attacks and to do it in such a disrespectful and blatant manner. I realize our discussions can get heated but we need to pause and take a deep breath and count to 100 if necessary before we "lash" into someone with our double-edged cutting words, as if we're trying to make mince meat out of them and feed them to the lions. You may feel that way in your heart but you don't have to spell it out in words on this forum, right? Some of you feel you need to and I think it takes our once respectable SZ Forum and makes it look like we're a bunch of two year old spoiled brats that are out of control.

>> Now, back to the original topic.

I thought the T3 demos were a mix of some really good (breathy Sax was simply fantastic) to some rather not so good (think Drum Kits ) I also didn't care much for the Synths (at least those demo'd anyway) but I rather liked the Pop Grand Piano and even the Rock Grand sounded pretty good to me.

I think that Al hit the nail on the head when he said the T3 had that CD polished sound, which to me, is indicative of a lack of "ambience" in the overall sound or as Al put it: lacking "that 'Live' feel". Of course the T1 and T2 were also noted for the same CD polished sound and it looks like it's repeated in the T3. People who like the CD polished sound will probably go gaga over the T3 and buy one asap, those who don't.. well??? I would have definitely bought a T3 if the Drum Kits were up to snuff and it had 15 more keys. If Yamaha sells a boat load of the T3's as is, then most likely they will continue to stick to their present protocol of 61 key 'only' totl arrangers. If the T3 fizzles at the "box office" then maybe Yamaha will change course and start thinking of that other 50% of arranger players who would prefer 76 or more keys to play on, and the T3 successor i.e. (T4 or whatever they decide to call it) will indeed have at least an option of a 76 key version.

Anyway, I like the fact that Yamaha is continually advancing the "sound realism" of their keyboard instruments and, needless to say, we will see the trickle down effect of the new SA2 voices and other sound improvements on the next traditional Yamaha Workstation that will be coming out in a year or so in replacement of the Motif XS. I understand that Yamaha will NOT be using the Motif emblem on their next totl Workstation and will instead be calling it something else. We shall see...

Best,
Mike

Nice of you to be "frank", Mike...now, how about trying "polite, and "respectful".

Please stop referring to me in your posts...unless you want a response that may or may not appeal to your delicate nature.

You can always e-mail me privately with your concerns about my biases or whatever annoys you...but then you wouldn't have the opportunity to try and make yourself look smart in front of the other members.

It isn't working.

Ian

Erick-B

Thank you for posting, I enjoyed the sounds and the organ parts sounded really good. However like many other posters I find the sounds too CD like. Having said that, it doesn't stop it from being great as a one man band & musical tool.

Ian

I admire your enthusiasm but you have a professional relationship with Yamaha and as such you should be an ambassador for them. Your actions could reflect better and show a lack of professionalism. Never lose the enthusiasm just adopt a little discretion.

LIONTRACKS

Send a keyboard to Diki or another SZ member on loan. Have them do a demo for you then you both can be in the spotlight. Chances are someone could do a hell of a job for you even if he is in your face. Then 2 things get showcased their musical ability & your products ability. Let’s face it you product might sound fantastic but you need someone who can demo it correctly and that has not happened as yet. All we seem to get are specifications.

I have now put on my Flame proof suite.

Jerry