Multi-velocity, ambiently recorded drum sounds are the wave of the future... Strike that, they are the wave of NOW..

Some of the most popular VSTi's are things like EZ Drummer, Groove Agent, BFD, DFH2, etc., that combine automatic generation of drum tracks with fills, intros and endings etc. (because our WS and DAW brothers have just as hard a time as we do creating utterly convincing drum parts from scratch!), with drum sounds that are recorded with MANY different velocity splits, and with adjustable ambience.

The results of these plug ins are drum tracks you would be hard to spot as anything other than a live drummer. Dynamics is much more that an increase in volume, as far as a drum is concerned. The more velocity splits you have, the more realistic the sound, and with good programming the more realistic the groove.

Until arrangers embrace this approach (and even Roland have a long way to go to match BFD!) we are always hobbled from the start. Great drum grooves need great, dynamic drum sounds.

I think it is a mistake to go down the 'chopped loop' route, that Ketron seem to want to do with the Audya, when utterly convincing results can be had simply using better, more dynamic drum kits, and using the old reliable MIDI as it's driver. It's easier to edit, it's easier to create, and it's easier to change around completely. A loop is a loop... There's not a whole lot you can do to it.

But I think a lot of Yamaha's problems in the drum department are self-inflicted. I seem to remember someone (was it Gary?) posted a demo a year or two back that had the T2's drums pumped in the mix, and a lot of the mastering compression taken off. They sounded MUCH better. Not, unfortunately, quite as good as the Roland V-Kits, IMO, but a BIG improvement. Unshackle the T3, and possibly it can start to get cooking!

In the meantime, with 1GB of sample RAM available (any details about load-up times on the T3 yet?), the opportunity for someone to create a SERIOUSLY punchy TVN drum kit (or three!) with gobs of vel-splits awaits. It's just drums (little programming required). Surely SOMEBODY out there could fill this need...?

Toontracks, are you listening?

Bart/Burkels more or less thinks he's te 'Center of the Universe'. He does not tolerate other peoples opinions/views and states those other people do not have knowledge and do not know where they are talking about..... truly shocking.

I sincerely hope that ALL the extra SA switches can be assigned to a multi-button footpedal...

That's a serious amount of work for your left hand to do, while trying to trigger the damn chords at the same time!

When, of when are you guys going to 'get it'? A chord sequencer is the best way to be able to still play in arranger mode, and free up your left hand to do some of those amazing things

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 09-11-2008).]

Well holy sh#&^&% smack my ass and color me purple......, I JUST HAD A GREAT IDEA FOR YAMAHA! STEVE DEMING I HOPE YOU READ THIS! What's the obvious hook for the Tyros2 and the Tyros3...??? (DRUM ROLL......) The answer.., SUPER ARTICULATION VOICES.... Well Yamaha I have your next big pitch for the Tyros4... SUPER ARTICULATED DRUMS!!!!!!!

Just imagine how those styles would pop if Yamaha added SUPER ARTICULATION DRUMS to the next Tyros and started using (what has become common in other major brands of keyboards) which is indepth velocity switching on the the drum kits.

Of course as stated we all have that different opinion, but I have in several posts seen Yamaha users even say they'd like a more LIVE feeling to the drums.... SUPER ARTICULATED DRUMS would be the answer...

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 09-11-2008).]

You mean multi-layer, velocity cross-switched drums, like Roland and Korg already have? But use the letters SA, and all the Yamaha fanboys will think they have something unique and groundbreaking?

Sound like a good idea (for Yamaha advertising)!

Thing is, Yamaha already DO have some vel-split drums. Just not many, and still pretty dry and undynamic. They don't need new technology, they simply need to leverage better the technology they already have.

I simply don't understand why, given the drum sound is probably the #1 criticism from even OWNERS of the T2, why Yamaha themselves have not come out with some TVN's of MotifXS drum sounds, or port some of the DTX kits over to TVN (like Roland ported the TD-Drums to their arrangers). Drums don't use up THAT much RAM, making them relatively quick to load...

This would be money in the bank, for Yamaha, IMO. A no-brainer...

SA drums could easily be done with a software upgrade--not rocket science.

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

You got my point then Yes, Roland and Korg have been doing this for a while now. I'm shocked that my Roland RS-70 (circa 2003) has more indepth velocity switching on the drum kits than you'd find on a high end Yamaha arranger. Granted the XS's kits aren't IMO up to par with Roland's..., the Tyros could clearly benefit from the use of the MotifXS's acoustic kits.

Gary..., they can do a software upgrade, BUT that software upgrade would mean Yamaha would have to include raw samples into the OS update.., again meaning you'd have to use the onboard sample memory.., which depending on the size could take longer on boot-up depending on how large the new sampled kits are.., and taking into consideration the Tyros line hasn't been praised for fast load time of samples.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 09-11-2008).]

Martin is the Global Content Development Manager employed directly by Yamaha Japan so is responsible for the Tyros 3 and Peter Baartmans and Michel Vonken would be partly answerable to him.

Actually Martin has as HUGE role in the keyboard development at Yamaha. He's the one who does the PSR-S500 video demo on the Yamaha USA site..., and he give a brief description of his job with Yamaha.

Gary, I surprised that you would say that. SA voices take way more memory than conventional voices. Absolutly impossible to itroduce SA voices without adding more memory or stealing it from somewhere else.

The idea of SA drums is interesting, but I don't think it's realistic on an arranger keyboard. SA is not simple velocity switching. We've been doing that for years, and so has everyone else (not necessarily with drums). SA responds differently determined by how you play. Most keyboard players don't "play" the drums. The drums play by themselves within the context of a pattern or a style or a song. You can create a pattern or a style, but again, the vast majority of us (in the arranger world) don't. So we're going to dedicate a HUGE chunk of resources to a segment of the instrument that most customers will never "play"?

I'm not saying there's no room for improvement in the drums (a matter of opinion, not fact) but SA is absolutely not the best way to approach such an improvement.


I don't know how feasable all this is, but I like your thinking. Keep talking.