Sorry, Bill, but I think you STILL fail to see the point.

The only hardware is the UAD-1 card, which is a proprietary card with audio DSP on it. The SOFTWARES are the continually upgraded OS versions, with fully functional versions of ALL the plugins on it.

No-one has ever cracked the software copy protection, because each card has a unique identifier on it, which the authorization ONLY works for.

Take another look at what you wrote... "hardware is NOT the hardest nut to crack, for the simple reason that it doesn’t change, whereas software can continually move the goal posts".

This does NOT happen in the real world. The software only programs are cracked as soon as they come out (and have to be constantly changed for them to have any effectiveness), and yet the hardware KEYED software for the UAD-1 has NEVER been cracked. It is a VERY popular product, with one of the highest reputations for quality sound in the business. And the software to run on it costs THOUSANDS if you buy ALL the plug-ins. A high value target for the crackers, if you will. No-one has succeeded. EVER... Can you explain this in light of your quote?

Remember, computer software is designed to run on a generic device. The UAD-1 software (and anything keyed to a unique identifier in an arranger as well) will only run on that system. AFAIK, only Yamaha have a style format that is identical (except for the extension) to a MIDI file. All the rest are proprietary. Why can't the motherboard of the arranger have the same kind of hardware keying that each and every UAD-1 has..?

Answer this simple question... OAS is quite an expensive upgrade, isn't it? It's keyed to the hardware in a Wersi, isn't it? Has it been cracked, yet? Can you get it for free?

Why wouldn't a similar system work for any arranger?

Without a UAD board the plug-ins wont work, (No sound engine) so what would be the point of cracking them, as you would still need a UAD board.
BTW the UAD like the Pulsar 2 is programmable, and it is easy to read the binary code used, (Its converted to decimal for easy entry) but what’s the point as you still need the sound engine on the card.

Bill

Styles run on the arranger... without the arranger, same deal.

Look, I think we are over-thinking this. Yamaha use ethernet to deliver content to the T2. My idea would be basically the same, except to add a unique, per-arranger ID to each unit. The arranger hooks to the internet, sends it's unique ID, this is incorporated into the style that is sent back so it ONLY works on the arranger with that ID.

No ID, no play. Strip out the ID, and it still doesn't play on any other unit...

I'm just not quite sure why everyone is so hell-bent to shoot down this idea. Hardware keyed software DOES remain secure, and anything that allowed the ROM quality style creators to be able to sell styles without fear of piracy has GOT to encourage them to do it a LOT more than they do now.

What's the #1 thing everyone wants? MORE STYLES, MORE STYLES, MORE STYLES... Why don't we get them? Because everyone (OK not everyone, but enough!) steals them, trades them, swaps them as soon as they have them. Anything that breaks this cycle has GOT to help increase the choice.

Bottom line is, if the price for styles is lowered to the point where it ain't worth cracking, nobody is even going to try, and the hardware key should make it close to impossible, anyway... But that price won't drop until the developers are SURE that they will get money for each copy used...

OK... Still don't like the idea? Come up with a better one.

It's about the only way I see around the problem. Any alternatives (other than we ALL stop copying them)?

Because the board is cheap (a few hundred dollars) but the plug-ins can total THOUSANDS extra. Tens of thousands of people have the board but no-one has ever cracked the copy protection, and ALL the software is fully functional. You don't download a demo version, the OS has ALL the fully functional versions in it of ALL the plug-ins. But they time out after a demo period, and that's IT...

Until you pay for the authorizations, absolutely NOTHING can make them run again. Pretty good, eh?

BTW, if you have never used a UAD-1 card, I HIGHLY recommend them. They just came out with new, higher plug-in count versions in PCI-Express form, and the plug-ins ROCK. Best compressors, EQ's, vintage channel strips, transient designers, you name it. Worth every penny and no way to cheat! Buy one of these, load it up with plug-ins, and you can guarantee that no bedroom jockey is using the same thing for free

That's more than you can say for MOST software plug-ins, these days. Half of it doesn't even run well because of all the useless PACE and other protection schemes they write in.

Coz they are scared of not getting free styles anymore!!
FWIW, I think its a brilliant idea...anything that enables a company to show a profit they will look at..Proprietary styles would become big business for each of the makers.
So much so that they probably would only have to charge maybe a $1 a style..
Instead of releasing operating system upgrades, just release 100's of new styles each year - song specific styles-genre specific styles - styles for the current top 40 (much the same as SMF makers do) the lsit goes on and on.

Super idea.

Dennis

Please don't include me in this "everyone wants styles" nonsense!!!!
I think 98% of ALL styles being offered out here in cyberland suck!I think i have saved a total of(drum roll) 7styles over the last year.I'll stick to making my own thank-you very much!
I would like the companies to ADD NEW features to keyboards WITHOUT removing old ones that is ALL i ask,but still recieve a resounding 'NO can do' from the yamahites.

Sorry T3,er.. Tyros2.5 not biting this time either.

mr9000, why do you think that the styles suck? Presumably, you like a lot of the ROM styles, don't you? The reason that out in cyberland, they suck is because they aren't made by the same talented guys that make the ROM ones...

They are made by ordinary Joe's like you and me (OK, not you... sure like to hear what YOUR user styles sound like, though!) who aren't as good as these guys. But the best programmers don't offer them for sale because they can't make a profit doing it. If they could, they WOULD (they are PLENTY happy to make them for the money that the Big 3 pay!).

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 09-18-2008).]

Exactly Diki ....that would solve it all in a nutshell as usual.

Diki mr9000, why do you think that the styles suck?
>Actually they are not of any interest to me because they ALL sound the same(big band-bluegrass,waltz) VERY seldom is dance of any use because it always has that factory house-style within it.
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Dnj quote:
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Originally posted by Diki:
. sure like to hear what YOUR user styles sound like, though!) who aren't as good as these guys.

--------------------------------------------DnjWrote:"that would solve it all in a nutshell as usual"

I would share few styles but when i say most styles "suck" i am being 100% truthful.Just be honest with yourselves and HEAR how close they all sound to any basic style already onboard.I've a better idea YOU send me a style you like and i'll work with it.

I currently have more than 40,000 style files on hand, many of which range from poor to mediocre at best. However, I also have a couple thousand that are outstanding and I use them a lot. While many are song specific, there are loads of great Latin, Rock, Waltz, Ballad, etc.. styles available, but it takes a bit of work to sort through them, tune the ones you really like, then save them in a data base that allows you to access them at a later date. WORK is the key word. If you're lazy and want someone else to do that for you, then as they say in NY forgetaboutit!

Gary