YPKO website :....

Great T3 demonstration pictures at Pakefield festival.

enjoy

http://www.yamahapkowner.com/?p=818

I'm 57 yrs old and the people in the audience look like my Parents!! Is that the Tyros 3 demographic? Mmmmmmmm?

Thanks for the info Donny. I would have loved to hear the demonstrations. Hopefully videos to follow.

PS: since there are no sounds, I guess some members will have start criticizing the crowd that attended.

Regards,

Jerry

I wouldnt have it any other way....these people know music and lived thru it all.

They are my most appreciative audiences as well.

Very interesting... Most everyone in the crowd looks to be an old geezer. Is that all the Tyros3 can muster to a performance? If the age of that crowd is reminiscent of all those who play 61 key arrangers in Europe I could see why 50% of keyboardists over here in the States want 76 keys or better..

Europe, as we know, is the hotbed of Home Enthusiast 61 key arranger players. That's where most of the money lies in my opinion. If most of the people in Europe who play 61 key arrangers look like they already have one foot in the grave we can almost rest assured that Yamaha will NOT EVER, NEVER EVER EVER, make another totl 76 key arranger again period! There is no way on earth these older people in Europe could manage moving around a 76 key totl arranger, let alone think about gigging on the road with one. Even the 61 key arrangers for them would most likely be set it and forget it.

I think I now realize and understand Yamaha's flat out refusal to listen to 50 percent of arranger players in the States who would like 76 keys and why they don't listen to people in Europe who want the same thing as the 50% of us over here do i.e. 76 keys or better in a totl arranger. It's not that there isn't a strong demand for totl arrangers in Europe, it's that for the most part the people (apparently) who play totl arrangers in Europe are mostly Octogenarians or older. Since it appears Yammie's bread 'n butter in Europe are mostly all old geezers it seems to me it would be much much too risky for them to develop a totl 76 key arranger since most likely the VAST majority of their customer base would simply dry up "essentially evaporate".

There are many people in Europe who would want a totl 76 key arranger from Yamaha but convincing them to market one would almost be impossible because as we all know Yamaha dreads taking financial risks that could seriously affect their bottom line and backfire on them.

The only hope I think we have is if Yamaha decided to build a 76 key totl arranger "in limited quantity" 'alongside' their mass produced 61 key totl arranger model. In other words, break the ice sloowwwwllyyyy and gauge what type of response they initially get.

>> Sorry if I've offended any of the Seniors across the pond. My words are not meant as a derogatory statement but simply as a statement of factuality - apparently , and so as to reference why it is that Yamaha disdains the thought or idea of developing another totl 76 key arranger.

Like I said, I think a good portion of their customer base would quickly dry up (at least over in Europe anyway); and the sheer thought for Yamaha of losing that vast source of already solidly established revenue is apparently too much for them to bear or even think about. >> Much to 50% percent of arranger players chagrin I might add.

Best,
Mike

JC..., arrangers have always been marketed to this crowd. Korg however, IMO is doing the best job at bringing in younger buyers with the PA series. The PA's IMO offer more in the area of what younger buyers are looking for in an arranger.

Squeak

I did not mean to "Knock" the crowd (Lord knows I'm knockin' on that "Age" door myself)The point I wanted to make is ... what others have said already .... The arranger KB market needs to "Modernize"!
You folks who are out there making a living with your arranger KB's need to play the stuff people want ... I understand. And if that is Old Standards, Foxtrots and Waltzs .. so be it!!
In the pictures it "Stunned" me to see No One under the age of + or - 65 yrs old!
Maybe it is a wake up call ...

I agree with your comment on the KORG (one of the reasons I purchased the PA2x)

[This message has been edited by JCkeeys (edited 09-17-2008).]

Anyone remember 'home organs'? And how they are now, to all intents and purposes a dead instrument, with only boutique manufacturers producing them at boutique prices...?

This is EXACTLY where arrangers are headed, unless the major manufacturers get off their arses and start to incorporate the sounds, styles and OS features that would allow younger players to not be embarrassed to use one!

I don't hold much hope for the future...

My only hope, right now, is that WS's like the MotifXS leverage their chord following ability and add a more arranger 'on-the-fly' control of the loops and arps. If they only had the 'instant fill to next loop' that arrangers have, I think I would already have one...

But currently, they only have a 'cue the next loop' system, where even loops that ARE fills have to be cued up in advance (not triggered exactly when you need them) and don't automatically lead into a new loop. This simple addition (and loops that stop after one time for Endings) would be the death knell for arrangers, IMO.

If they would just let us be able to play arranger styles on lets say a Motif xs WS we'd have the best of both worlds and a very powerful tool to make music in so many ways !!

Yeah, but if they did that.., they wouldn't be able to charge nearly four grand and expect Motif players to pay that. One problem here is the huge price difference between these two keyboards.

The 61 key Motif XS costs much less than the Tyros 3 (even the Tyros 2). The Motif isn't "less pro", but actually more pro orientated than the Tyros..., but I still go by what I was told by a Yamaha rep years ago.., in that top arrangers have always been more expensive because the market continues to pay the price and the targeted market "tends" to have more disposable income...

Times may have changed a bit since that statement, but the mentallity on the pricing sure hasn't

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 09-17-2008).]

Very good points, Diki, I agree wholeheartedly.

Ian

As someone from "across the pond" I can tell you that no, not all arranger players in Europe are old geezers Maybe you should take into consideration what this "Pakefield Festival" is about, and for what audience it is being organized...

Hey, have any of you guys checked out the new synth voices on the T3 yet? And how about the new Acoustic Kit, or the T9 Kit? No? This thing sounds so hip. I guess you're going to have to wait a couple of weeks to try it for yourselves.

Don't be cranky about this, if I could demo it for you, I would.

Regards,



------------------
Yamaha Customer Support
YCASupport@yamaha.com
714.522.9000

While you're here, Steve, how about this one...

Do you honestly think a few more synth voices and a 909 kit are likely to entice younger players away from a MotifXS and pay over $1500 MORE for a T3 (street price on MotifXS6 is about $2200), without arpeggiation and loop features, or any sampling, DAW features and poorer build quality?

Somehow, I just don't think so...

But hey, if you can get the Motif team to make the loops and arps behave like arranger variations and fills (rather than the 'cue everything up in advance' way it is right now) you might get everyone here that wants a newer sound and style package and OS, but with arranger ease of control (you know, the NEXT gen customers) to go Yamaha after all!

And we wouldn't even have to bitch about the lack of a 76 or 88, either.

The chord following abilities of the XS system are SO close to being usable for us arranger fans, it would take little in OS upgrades to make them the next step, rather than having to battle the wealthy retirees that seem to be the T3's target customer.

All it would take is some extra rules about loop behavior, like dropping into a fill at any point (rather than cue it up a bar in advance) and a set of rules as to where to go AFTER the fill loop plays. Same rule would suffice for an Intro loop, and a loop that could be programmed to stop after one time through would be an ENDING.

That sure doesn't seem too hard to do (and current behavior could still be the default). On bass (bass inversions) might be the next step, but just the loop destination rules would be enough to make me jump ship from arrangers, and move into the 21st century.

Audio loops in combination with arps and styles, with a decent sampler and cutting edge as well as classic sounds is the mantra of the expensive 'open' computer based arrangers. So little needs to be added to the MotifXS to equal these in practical terms...

Maybe the old geezers you saw in the photos were the only ones with enough free time to attend a festival....

....while the young are busy hitting girls.

The first of the photos (the one with the pianos in a row) is making me shiver. Looks like a typical old mansion room in a horror movie. brrrrrrr

[This message has been edited by trident (edited 09-18-2008).]

And if the divisional rivalry would not make the Motif xs have full arranger features, hear is a way Yamaha could do it.


Since the Tyros users are technical dummies (as most people on this forum continually state) why not make a TOTL arranger with exceptional ground-breaking sounds, lots and lots of great styles that can only be played on the Tyros (as per Diki’s topic on style copy protection), only a 61 key version made out of plastic.
Don’t include any sequencer, sampler mp3 player … none of that. Not even style creation.
Just sounds and styles and an OS to play with those sounds and styles.
That would satisfy the market that just want to play the arranger out of the box with out having to tweak and do not want or can not deal with any advance features on an arranger.
What that does is keep the arranger division in Yamaha happy as they still have a product to make and no other division in Yamaha will take over their territory because they have a specific market.


Now for those who really want to use an electronic musical instrument, the Motif division would include styles and style modification and creation along with any other technological advancement (audio sampling…) on the TOTL WS. This would not disturb the arranger division and market because this new motif is an advance arranger which most people know Tyros users do not want creation or modification features on their arranger. Also this would solve the 76 key issue because the Motif line already has a 76 key version.

So there you go. Both the arranger and WS division can keep their market and not disturb the other.

So Tyros would have just ground-breaking great sounds and styles (with no sampler sequencer MP3 player) it would be made from plastic and on 61 keys and the person playing would sound like a CD. Exactly what Yamaha’s arranger market wants.

The Motif would also have great sounds, and everything else that is already on the Motif but would now include styles and style modification and creation and have a 76 key version. Satisfying the Motif market.

Hello everyone...

As regards to age in Europe and the UK in particular, the owner of the site being linked to is 27 and he has found the time and the enthusiasm to run a website based on his interests of Yamaha keyboards and Digital Pianos, so they do appeal to a wider market

Oh and I am the owner

All the best

James Woodcock http://www.yamahapkowner.com

[This message has been edited by glidem (edited 09-20-2008).]

James, you've got a great site. Although I don't visit as much as when I owned a T2, I still do visit. You've got lots of great content on the site. Keep up the good work!

James.....your website is one of the best for sure. Thank You for your efforts it is appreciated by so many players around the world for information & support.

James... How do YOU feel about the feature and price difference between MotifXS and Tyros lines?

Do you honestly feel that Yamaha are on track to entice younger players away from WS's, and get them to use arrangers, or is it that the majority of younger players using arrangers are using them mostly for legacy music?

There are probably some VERY young players of theater organs, even crumhorns and sackbuts but that doesn't automatically make those instruments relevant in today's music scene...

Just out of curiosity, if Yamaha made the MotifXS's loop and arpeggio features controllable with an arranger system, would YOU be interested in one?

Those attendance pictures at Pakefield (compare them to the attendees of a show that features WS's, for instance) don't seem to bode well for the breed. Is there an arranger show in the UK where these mythical young users DO attend?

Sorry, I may run an independent enthusiast site, but I am not market research for any part of Yamaha so wouldn't really wish to comment. I can only tell you though that 'I' love the Tyros series and because of my fondness for these fine instruments, I created YPKO.

Personally the Motif range doesn't spark the same excitement for me as I love arranger keyboards.

I am sure if all ages talk about keyboards no matter what brand, no matter what specification, we can entice any age if we all share our own experiences and interests in these fine instruments. We have a tough challenge as we are up against the so called 'cooler' instruments such as guitars and drums and when a parent considers anything like the field that interests communities like this one, the automatic reaction is pure 'piano' lessons.

Thanks to those for the kind comments regarding my website...

All the best

James

Festivals are for the more mature, if you want to see youngsters drooling over arrangers (Most can’t afford them) then you will need to go to a music and/or computer exhibition. (Including games)

Bill

Well, Bill, they may not be able to afford the TOTL arrangers (who can? ), but they sure seem able to buy the slightly less expensive WS's in numbers that would be the envy of ANY company's arranger division

And, looking at that crowd, 'youngsters' would seem to indicate those under 50

Nice try, thanks for playing... Care to see what would have been behind door #2?